Well this is certainly MY nightmare!Originally Posted by Chas'88
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Well this is certainly MY nightmare!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Mine too, Odin. I don't like where my thoughts & musings have been taking me as of late, but they are what they are.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Hi Charles,
Lots to think about here. I hear you saying the following in the authoritarian world you envisage:
The Grey Visionary would be a powerful voice for fear. The Grey Champion would assume the role of protector from the fear by reducing the role of government and the power of corporations. The Grey Antagonist would identify the same fear but (in a losing battle) argue for greater government to save us.
Have I heard you right?
James50
Last edited by James50; 02-18-2010 at 11:24 PM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
That's it. However I don't think the GC would reduce the role of corporations (that would require more government authority over them, which the SC has just nixed). If anything the GC will reduce the role of government & the corporations would take advantage of this and using our bought out government--Halliburton for example has a factory in every congressional district & has the power to threaten to take away the factory if a Congress person gets out of line--would establish this Authoritarian Nightmare world akin to an Oliver Cromwell figure taking over.
If anything, the group that'll challenge the corporations & their powergrip on America would be the Libertarian Dream factions. The Tea Party movement being an early ancestor to what will probably eventually develop.
Reagan was the Great Visionary for the Authoritarian Nightmare politics. He took advantage of Cold War fears to do what he wanted in America. In reality, the Soviet Union wasn't anywhere near the threat that he painted it to be, as history has proved.
The next Grey Antagonist would be an analogue for the Queen of the Night in Mozart's opera: The Magic Flute. Where she represents the dying power of Authoritarian Nightmare Absolutist Monarchs, vs the Libertarian Dream Masonic Organizations - the analogue Sarastro represents.
Here's a really good 3 part BBC documentary on the rise of the Neoconservatives & Islamist movements.
Segment I - 1940s - 1970s
Part I - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt-FyuuWlWQ
Part II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9cJE...eature=related
Part III - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AylLV...eature=related
Part IV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq2Ng...eature=related
Part V - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCs1B...eature=related
Part VI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXwii...eature=related
Segment II - 1980s & 1990s
Part I - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igton...eature=related
Part II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYDy8...eature=related
Part III - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2dFD...eature=related
Part IV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rws6T...eature=related
Part V - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fbik...eature=related
Part VI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zstF5...eature=related
Segment III - 2000s
Part I - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zKho...eature=related
Part II - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI2Uw...eature=related
Part III - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSpX...eature=related
Part IV - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrsSe...eature=related
Part V - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwjHr...eature=related
Part VI - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy5q0...eature=related
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 02-19-2010 at 12:10 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Hi Charles,
OK, but where does this scenario break down:
1. Grey Visionary identifies government spending as the great thing to be feared. He/she gets the millies to do the math. The Silents and Boomers are/have been mortgaging their future. The boomers are headed to the beaches and the golf courses and leaving the millies to sweat it out. "Too big to fail" becomes part of the fear as a further extension of government monies to the big banks.
2. Grey Champion rides to the rescue with a plan to reduce government spending and government commitments to the boomers and silents. "I will balance the budget in 5 years! Your future will be secure! I promise to bust up the big banks and release their stranglehold on your future!"
3. Grey Antagonist will attempt to fight back with stories of broken promises to the aged and rising poverty among those on fixed incomes.
So the Grey Champion exercises government power to reduce the strength of corporate institutions and reduce the power of government.
Incidentally, I am not as worried as some about the effect of the SCOTUS decision. Every day, I think we become more immune to the power of ads. 90% of my TV watching is pre-recorded and I skip through all the ads.
I guess the question is what fears will be harnessed to the cause of the Grey Champion?
BTW, this scenario implies that the crisis-crisis will be a sovereign debt blowup either here or in some other advanced economy.
James50
PS: As much as I love Mozart, I could never make it through the Magic Flute. Marriage of Figaro is more my speed. :-)
Last edited by James50; 02-19-2010 at 11:51 AM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
The Great Visionary has already come and gone. In general, they seem to appear somewhere in the late Awakening/Early Unraveling period.
The Grey Antagonist is the "champion" of the dying ideology during the early part of the Crisis.
As for the SCOTUS decision: it's not really the power of ads I'm worried about, it's the buy out of politicians and control of them is what really worries me.
I love The Magic Flute. The Marriage of Figaro is good too, but somewhere around the beginning of the fourth act I start looking at my watch going "and when is this going to end?"
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Cuba too
Could Cuba be considered a prime example as well--at least in the sense that one dictatorship was replaced with what many considered to be an even worse one. And half a century later many forget that we actually helped to put Castro in power because we thought that he was going to be a good guy.
This should probably have it's own thread, but I'll post it here anyway. I was reading through Henry VI Pt. 1 and I came upon this scene:
Which you can see right here.KING HENRY VI
Uncles of Gloucester and of Winchester,
The special watchmen of our English weal,
I would prevail, if prayers might prevail,
To join your hearts in love and amity.
O, what a scandal is it to our crown,
That two such noble peers as ye should jar!
Believe me, lords, my tender years can tell
Civil dissension is a viperous worm
That gnaws the bowels of the commonwealth.
[A noise within, 'Down with the tawny-coats!']
What tumult's this?
WARWICK
An uproar, I dare warrant,
Begun through malice of the bishop's men.
[A noise again, 'Stones! stones!' Enter Mayor]
Mayor
O, my good lords, and virtuous Henry,
Pity the city of London, pity us!
The bishop and the Duke of Gloucester's men,
Forbidden late to carry any weapon,
Have fill'd their pockets full of pebble stones
And banding themselves in contrary parts
Do pelt so fast at one another's pate
That many have their giddy brains knock'd out:
Our windows are broke down in every street
And we for fear compell'd to shut our shops.
[Enter Serving-men, in skirmish, with bloody pates]
KING HENRY VI
We charge you, on allegiance to ourself,
To hold your slaughtering hands and keep the peace.
Pray, uncle Gloucester, mitigate this strife.
First Serving-man
Nay, if we be forbidden stones,
We'll fall to it with our teeth.
Second Serving-man
Do what ye dare, we are as resolute.
[Skirmish again]
GLOUCESTER
You of my household, leave this peevish broil
And set this unaccustom'd fight aside.
Third Serving-man My lord, we know your grace to be a man
Just and upright; and, for your royal birth,
Inferior to none but to his majesty:
And ere that we will suffer such a prince,
So kind a father of the commonweal,
To be disgraced by an inkhorn mate,
We and our wives and children all will fight
And have our bodies slaughtered by thy foes.
First Serving-man Ay, and the very parings of our nails
Shall pitch a field when we are dead.
[Begin again]
GLOUCESTER
Stay, stay, I say!
And if you love me, as you say you do,
Let me persuade you to forbear awhile.
KING HENRY VI
O, how this discord doth afflict my soul!
Can you, my Lord of Winchester, behold
My sighs and tears and will not once relent?
Who should be pitiful, if you be not?
Or who should study to prefer a peace.
If holy churchmen take delight in broils?
WARWICK
Yield, my lord protector; yield, Winchester;
Except you mean with obstinate repulse
To slay your sovereign and destroy the realm.
You see what mischief and what murder too
Hath been enacted through your enmity;
Then be at peace except ye thirst for blood.
BISHOP OF WINCHESTER
He shall submit, or I will never yield.
It was a sudden understanding & brief flash of "I've seen/heard this before". And then I realized the similarities to today...
A ruler begging for peace between two opposing factions intent upon not cooperating at all. Oh lord, let not a War of Red and White happen again here as a War of Red and Blue.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Hi Charles,
If the Grey Visionary has already come and gone, what banner was he/she carrying?
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
Sorry, I thought I made that clear in my post on the subject.
The Great Visionaries that I see in US history:
Jackson
T. Roosevelt
Reagan
All come to power in the late Awakening/early Unraveling period & have a similar pattern & effect on society in that they're able to inspire policy long after their presidencies have joined the files of history. They also all serve two terms and their predecessor is "chosen" by them and is their Vice President of their second term. The Vice President attempts to continue on their legacy, but never succeed in doing so and are voted out in quick succession.
Personally I don't like to put the name to Reagan, however he fits the mold. Despite what I may think, at this point I'm continuing the theory against my own interests. Again, I feel as though I was born too early. I want to be living most of my life in the Libertarian Dream society, not in the Authoritarian Nightmare.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
OK, thanks for the clarification.
If your analysis is correct, we are closer to 1930 than 1940. Not the best news in the world. This will all be so much clearer in 10 years or so, but it seems there is no Grey Champion yet.
As for when is the best time to live - I went to a retirement lunch for a guy born in 1940 today. Really nice guy. I was thinking he has had a pretty good run.
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
In the case of what year it is, a simple comparison of generations can show you that:
2010
GI - 109 - 86
Silent - 85 - 68
Boom - 67 - 50
X - 49 - 29
Millennial - 28 - 8 (for right now I'll cut it off @ 2002 but the established date isn't set)
Homeland 7 - 0
1930
Gilded - 108 - 89
Progressive - 88 - 71
Missionary - 70 - 48
Lost - 47 - 30
GI - 29 - 6
Silent - 5 - 0
The numbers don't match up perfectly, but they're within a give or take of 3 years of each other. So therefore we're equivalently around 1930.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 02-20-2010 at 12:41 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Hi Charles –
Sure enjoyed reading your ideas regarding Micro-Turnings. Makes total sense, agrees with the four-part cycle of time, and continues the MegaSaeculum theory. Look forward to seeing where this thread leads.
Liked your idea of a cycle’s Visionary, Champion, and Antagonist.
Visionary – Franklin, Jackson, T. Roosevelt, Reagan
Champion – Washington, Lincoln, F. Roosevelt, ?
Antagonist – Lord North, Buchanan, Hoover, Obama
Obama being the Antagonist for this cycle doesn’t make him a bad guy, just the bad luck to be left holding the bag of ideas from a dying cycle … like North, Buchanan, and Hoover.
Didn’t understand the Libertarian/Authoritarian Nightmare/Dream analysis.
The Tea Party movement appears to be similar to the Sons of Liberty and the Abolitionists – a group organized to around the central question of the particular cycle … Sons of Liberty – Independence; Abolitionists – Slavery; Tea Party movement – central government expansion. During the upcoming mini-awakening period, the effectiveness of the Tea Party movement should be determined, as well as the identity of the next Grey Champion.
Good luck with the Student Senate.
Hello Otter, thanks for the comments.
Agreed, the "Antagonist" doesn't mean he's a bad guy, he's just left holding the bags of ideas that have been worn out. Perhaps another name rather than Antagonist should be used perhaps?
Maybe I should redefine what I mean by Libertarian/Authoritarian Nightmare/Dream. It's an idea that I've been spinning it around in my head for a while and I'll spin it around a little more (like the original Micro-Turnings thesis) before I'll make a separate post about it which will hopefully be more clear to you.
Thanks for a clarification of the Revolutionary Cycle, that's one part of history I keep meaning to study in further depth but never seem to get the time to do so.
True about the effectiveness of the Tea Party & the identity of the Grey Champion, although BrianRush scolded me & others by saying that "GC isn't a person until you look in retrospect; but during the Crisis it's the role all Prophets fill generally".
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Here are some of my thoughts about the dates.
Great Power Crisis
1T: 1929 - 1933
2T: 1933 - 1937
3T: 1937 - 1943
4T: 1943 - 1947
I chose 1937 because that is when the consensus began to break down and FDR began to lose some of his popularity (due to the Supreme Court controversy). And I chose 1943 instead of 1941 because that is when the major turning point occurred. 1943, in many respects, is a low point in the Crisis. The tide had not clearly shifted in the war, and America was boiling over with tension that resulted in large scale rioting and unrest, racial turmoil, as well as a dramatic rise in labor strife that peaked just the next year in 1944. And I chose 1947 because that is the year when the labor strife finally began to ease. So I choose 1947 as the final Crisis year, rather than 1945 or 1946.
American High
1T: 1947 - 1950
2T: 1950 - 1955
3T: 1955 - 1959
4T: 1959 - 1963
Chose 1963 because of JFK assassination
Conscious Revoluton
1T: 1963 - 1967
2T: 1967 - 1973
3T: 1973 - 1979
4T: 1979 - 1983
1967 because of the Summer of Love, 1973 because the start of the recession, stagflation, and the oil crisis, and 1979 because of malaise, the Iran Hostage Crisis, and the second oil crisis. And I chose 1983 because that's when America finally recovered from the economic crisis of the early 1980s.
Reagan/Clinton 3T
1T: 1983 - 1988
2T: 1988 - 1995
3T: 1995 - 2000
4T: 2000 - 2005
I decided on 1988 because that was the last geopolitically "tranquil" year. 1989 was a rather eventful year, as were the early 1990s with the collapse of the Soviet Bloc, a recession, a new presidential election in which a Boomer won, and the Persian Gulf conflict. This was also the period the culture wars began to simmer. The culminating events were the 1994 midterm elections and the 1995 bombing of a federal building in OKC. The 4T began with the stock market crash of 2000 ending the DotCom era, and E2K. It might be better to say that it began with 9/11. But it ended in 2005 with Bush's second inauguration, several political scandals, Katrina, and the bursting of the housing bubble, starting the current economic crisis.
Millennial Crisis
2005 - 2010?: 1T
I picked 2005 because I believe that it was the start of the cultural 4T. The culture wars pretty much died after Katrina, never to recover. Even while politicians are still trying to raise wedge issues, it no longer has any real weight. Everything that happened in 2008 can be directly traced to several events and trends that started in 2005, give or take a year.
"The urge to dream, and the will to enable it is fundamental to being human and have coincided with what it is to be American." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
intp '82er
Hi Charles –
Re-read your Henry VI quote and don’t sense a Blue-Red Civil War in the future. If there is to be a war in the current crisis period, I'm planning it to be with an outside agency. The Civil War was a perfect storm of compromises gone bad. And besides, I’m optimistic about the post-crisis future.
The Reagan quote you cite ("Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.")looks more Libertarian than Authoritarian. Government exists to protect us from each other, i.e. murder, rape, robbery, fraud, and not from ourselves, i.e. obesity, alcohol, poor decisions, is right out of a Libertarian’s handbook.
Is your thinking on Authoritarian/Libertarian Dream/Nightmare as follows –
Authoritarian Dream – 1589-1692 Colonial Cycle
Authoritarian Nightmare – 1693-1789 Revolutionary Cycle
Libertarian Dream – 1790-1865 Civil War Cycle
Libertarian Nightmare – 1866-1945 Great Power Cycle
Authoritarian Dream – 1945-2010 Millennial Cycle
Authoritarian Nightmare – 2011-?
If so, I can see what you’re saying and think it’s an interesting use of the four-part cycle of time. Because I’m optimistic, I would back-up the Dream/Nightmare one cycle and come up with –
Authoritarian Nightmare – Colonial Cycle
Libertarian Dream – Revolutionary Cycle
Libertarian Nightmare – Civil War Cycle
Authoritarian Dream – Great Power Cycle
Authoritarian Nightmare – Millennial Cycle
Libertarian Dream – Extra-Terrestrial Cycle
Either way, I think it’s a good idea worth pursuing.
Also, I wouldn't change the Antagonist label either.
A reply that'll probably make me unpopular here...
Since you guys seem to like the Antagonist label... we'll keep it.
As for which saeculum is which (in terms of Authoritarian/Libertarian), it depends upon whether you're talking about the rise of the ideology or the establishment & collapse of it. If anything these governing cycles seem to travel in between our normal definition of saeculums. In fact the styles of governing seem to evolve from Awakening to Awakening instead of from Crisis to Crisis. The Crisis seems to be the mid-point or the crux of the governing ideology.
For example:
Libertarian Dream rises during the First Great Awakening of Revolution cycle, culminates its power and authority during the American Revolution, and begins falling during the Second Great Awakening.
Libertarian Nightmare rises during the Second Great Awakening of the Civil War cycle, culminates its power and authority during the Civil War, and begins falling during the Third Great Awakening.
Authoritarian Dream rises during the Third Great Awakening of Great Power Saeculum, culminates its power & authority during the 1940s & 1950s, and begins its fall during the Consciousness Revolution of the 1960s & 1970s.
Authoritarian Nightmare rises during the Consciousness Revolution of the Millennial saeculum, will most likely culminate its power during this Crisis, and will begin its fall during the next Awakening.
First Great Awakening - Second Great Awakening: Libertarian Dream
Second Great Awakening - Third Great Awakening: Libertarian Nightmare
Third Great Awakening - Consciousness Revolution: Authoritarian Dream
Consciousness Revolution - Fifth Great Awakening: Authoritarian Nightmare
I think the large reason I had Authoritarian Dream ending when it did was because the 1960s was the last time this type of governing was believable, but Johnson & Nixon both killed it's legitimacy in the eyes of the people & within their respective parties.
Meanwhile you have neoconservatives starting in the 1970s doing this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_C0w...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8qpL...eature=related
Watch all of the first link & continue watching the second until about 5:45.
In it, you'll see the birth of Authoritarian Nightmare style of governance.
It begins with the neoconservatives aligning themselves with Rumsfeld & Cheney in the Ford administration. They then show their influence in over exaggerating the Soviet "threat" through their selected Team B's investigation into CIA info on the Soviet Union. Next a neoconservative committee [that Reagan was a member of] brought the exaggerated visions of Team B's research to the American public as "fact" through commercials designed to sensationalize, simplify, and scare the public into associating the Soviet Union as wholly "Evil" and the United States as wholly "Good".
Reagan, while his policies at home do speak more to the Libertarian state of mind, his national policies scream Authoritarian Nightmare. In fact I've been thinking about both political parties in terms of my Authoritarian/Libertarian Dream/Nightmare theory. Recently, I've come the conclusion that Republicans have become:
Authoritarian Nightmare national vision/Libertarian Dream domestic vision
And meanwhile Democrats have increasingly become:
Authoritarian Dream national vision/Authoritarian Nightmare domestic vision/Libertarian Dream formative ideologies (the LD branch of the Dems hasn't completely coalesced and right now--they're sort of a hybrid at the moment between Dem. AN & LD-- but they seem to be developing at the moment as the "Mad-as-Hellers" we talk about over in the Special Topics forum--I'd consider myself part of this crowd, as would most left-leaning Millies I believe)
I'm probably going to get a lot of rotten fruit thrown at me for this comment, but I've been comparing how Republicans & Democrats present their ideologies, and lately I've been seeing a correlation between how the neoconservatives presented the national "threats" of the Soviet Union, Saddam Hussein, and Islamic Terrorism - & how Democrats present certain domestic ideas such as Global Warming. In both cases we're asked to believe over exaggerated or sometimes even imaginary evidence about a threat we cannot see or completely understand.
I foresee the Libertarian Dream part of the Republican party breaking off from the mainstream Republican party & forming its own party, with the LD part of the Democrats. In fact one could say that the Tea Party is the early beginnings of this, but not the final form IMO since they'd eventually merge with LD Democrats. As for the Democrats, I'd say that the Authoritarian Dream portion of the Democratic party will die off and fade into the textbooks of history.
That'll probably leave us during this Crisis with the following:
Republicans: Authoritarian Nightmare International Policy
Democrats: Authoritarian Nightmare Domestic Policy
Unnamed Party: Tea Party/Mad-As-Hell Libertarian Dream Policy <- probably married together because of dissatisfaction with the main parties, and they'd probably eventually split down the road (with the idea that the "enemy of mine enemy--aka Corporations--is my friend" keeping them together)
I don't see however the Unnamed party winning anything during this Crisis, however come the next Awakening they'll probably start being a force to be reckoned with & will eventually triumph in the next Crisis.
Perhaps the Authoritarian Nightmares will merge together into one party [Democrats & Republican parties still remaining] but the cross overs merging. And the Libertarian Dreamers would take over the other party that's vacated. If anything this would probably happen to the Republican party, where I'd see the LDers hijacking the Republican party & kicking out the AN internationalists (who'd simperingly join the Democratically run AN domestics) and this would be the next social revolution of the Fifth Great Awakening.
The transfer in parties would be similar to how Authoritarian Dream Republicans got scared away by the Authoritarian Nightmare Republicans during the 1990s & are now Blue Dog Democrats.
I'm doing a lot of speculating here, but I think I'm getting some ideas that've been floating in my head, across. What do all of you think?
The reason why I still think that Authoritarian Nightmare will prevail in this cycle? If you look at right-leaning Millies, despite some of their protestations of Libertarian domestic policy, they still ardently believe the Authoritarian Nightmare vision of foreign policy that the neoconservatives have spun. The same is true about left-leaning Millies, while espousing some Libertarian formative ideologies, they still believe the Authoritarian Nightmare vision of domestic policy that the Democratic party holds.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 02-27-2010 at 11:59 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Note that up to here almost all of your mini-turnings are about 4 years in length. You now start to lengthen them.... Why?
I need to spend a bit more time thinking this through, but I think something like this seems more likely to me:UNRAVELING-high: 1984 - 1990: Morning in America
UNRAVELING-awakening: 1990 - 1998: 1990s
UNRAVELING-unraveling: 1998 - 2001: Millennium Celebration & Hip Hop Era (cut short by 9/11, IMO it should've lasted until 2003 or 2004)
UNRAVELING-crisis: 2001 - 2008: 9/11 & The Long War Period
CRISIS-high: 2008 - 2012(?): ??? <--WE ARE HERE
CRISIS-awakening: 2012(?) - 20??
CRISIS-unraveling:
CRISIS-crisis:
UNRAVELING-high: 1984 - 1988: Morning in America
UNRAVELING-awakening: 1988 - 1995:
UNRAVELING-unraveling: 1995 - 2000:
UNRAVELING-crisis: 2000 - 2004: Tech-boom crash, 9/11. Perhaps the tech-boom crash is the more significant of these.
CRISIS-high: 2004 - 2008
CRISIS-awakening: 2008-2012 etc..
I see a parallel between the election of 1912 and the election of 1992. Both times a faction broke largely off the majority party (the Republicans both times) in part as a result of a President pushing too far away from where the party had been in the past. (Taft's conservatism and Bush raising taxes). Both times this faction formed a third party and gave the election to the minority party. Later many from the movement (ie the Progressives and the Reformers) quietly joined the Democrats early in the crisis. In the 30's this brought the Progressives together with the (what we now call) Neoconservatives to form the movement which dominated the depression and later a Paleoconservative opposition formed. This time we have the Individualists joining the Progressives to form the majority coalition and that will ultimately be opposed by a neoconservative opposition. The Clinton/Obama primary was largely a question of whether the Democrats will attempt to align with the Neocon's (ie Clinton and her success in neocon Appalachia) or the Individualists (ie Obama and his success in the Individualist mountain west). The tea party movement seems largely paleoconservative in nature and parallels the rugged individualism of the last cycle.
I'm not sure how we can see 2008 as being anything other than a mini-awakening. Remember the huge youthful rallies? The unprecedented excitement behind the election? THIS was the movement that will move us forward. Remember also that the resolution of an awakening does not feel satisfying. We should be spinning into the mini-unraveling with key questions unanswered.
The tea party movement seems to have the making of a reactionary backlash for several reasons. Perhaps the most notable is the lack of young people who are taking part. The movement is centered around Paleoconservatives who seem intent on isolating themselves from the political process. Currently they are joined by some neoconservatives because they are [pretending to] champion their causes. For instance, many of these people believe that Medicare is unconstitutional but they are trumpeting up Obama's potential cuts to Medicare. It was amazing watching Republican after Republican in the healthcare summit lamenting these changes to Medicare.
The core of the movement is uninterested in working with Obama, but the neocon wing is interested. As the Republicans draw in more of the neoconservatives and even some more liberal than that (for instance Brown won the union vote in MA) they will have to become a more reasonable Christian Democrat like party. The paleocon wing will be disgusted and likely isolate themselves around third party candidates, perhaps even a formal tea party. Perhaps that tea party will become significant in the next awakening.
The 80-year rule strikes again; history has remarkable (if imperfect) parallels roughly 80 years apart, and the 1912 and 1992 elections have much in common. Of course, the three generations involved in the elections of 1912 were all Adaptive (Taft, TR, Wilson); in 1992 they were three different generations (GI, Silent, and Boom). But the incumbent, a successor of a highly-popular President, lost badly in both elections to no small extent because he could not express what he would do in a second term.
We shall yet see how the Perot voters settle in. 2007 is a good economic analogue for 1929; 2006 was a good political analogue to 1930. If I am betting on the generational theory, then I am betting that 2010 will not be a particularly good year for the Republicans.
Partisan politics in America are coalition politics, and whole "swing" groups can join and defect parties at almost a moment's notice. Such can be the difference between strong wins and strong losses in Presidential elections.
It could be that Hillary Clinton was better connected by culture to Ozarkia and Appalachia (the two regions are hardly distinguishable; West Virginia and southern Missouri even look alike) than was Barack Obama. Hillary Clinton understands Southern Mountain America (Ozarks and Appalachia) as Obama can't. Obama, in contrast, learned how to play Suburbia which has become more genuinely urban in its need for Big Government in some aspects of life. He could recognize that the pure "cut taxes for people with above-average incomes" approach that the Republicans have offered through the 3T is no longer reliable among people who have as much fear of poverty for their progeny (if not themselves) as hope for high incomes that used to push Suburbia into the GOP column. Add to that, Suburbia has overstretched public services from law enforcement to education and highways.In the 30's this brought the Progressives together with the (what we now call) Neoconservatives to form the movement which dominated the depression and later a Paleoconservative opposition formed. This time we have the Individualists joining the Progressives to form the majority coalition and that will ultimately be opposed by a neoconservative opposition. The Clinton/Obama primary was largely a question of whether the Democrats will attempt to align with the Neocon's (ie Clinton and her success in neocon Appalachia) or the Individualists (ie Obama and his success in the Individualist mountain west). The tea party movement seems largely paleoconservative in nature and parallels the rugged individualism of the last cycle.
Any Awakening among the Millennial generation is likely to be political -- not cultural. Millennial youth could hardly be more different from Boom youth. Boomers recognized the economic bounties of a GI-built world as a given to which they could usually attach themselves if things got bad enough -- which is exactly what Boomers did. Boomers attacked conventions of clothing and lifestyles because they could get away with it. Millennial young adults have been obliged to keep any appearance of unconventional tendencies under deep cover. They know what to say to the boss (You need a tax cut! You need to smash unions!) even if they believe none of it -- and then vote according to their economic interests.I'm not sure how we can see 2008 as being anything other than a mini-awakening. Remember the huge youthful rallies? The unprecedented excitement behind the election? THIS was the movement that will move us forward. Remember also that the resolution of an awakening does not feel satisfying. We should be spinning into the mini-unraveling with key questions unanswered.
Millennial culture, like GI culture, has been slow to develop. So it is with a Civic generation. Such fits their superficial conformity that hides the potential for political and economic rebellion against "economic royalists".
Racists (Millennial adults are less racist than any modern predecessors). Gun-fetishists. Tax protesters. Nativists. Constitutional primitives (like those who describe themselves as "10th-Amendment Citizens" -- never mind the significance of the 13th, 14th, 15th, and 17th). Such is much of the Tea Party. It is very white and non-Millennial. Sure, it is reactionary backlash, but it has little to offer young adults. Boomers could make common cause with older GIs if they became hostile to drugs, street crime, and child abuse; the older factions behind the Tea Party have no rational appeal. The Millennial Generation is, above all else, rational.The tea party movement seems to have the making of a reactionary backlash for several reasons. Perhaps the most notable is the lack of young people who are taking part. The movement is centered around Paleoconservatives who seem intent on isolating themselves from the political process. Currently they are joined by some neoconservatives because they are [pretending to] champion their causes. For instance, many of these people believe that Medicare is unconstitutional but they are trumpeting up Obama's potential cuts to Medicare. It was amazing watching Republican after Republican in the healthcare summit lamenting these changes to Medicare.
As for union members in private industry trending Republican, it is possible that they are the only working people who still feel a bite from the IRS. Non-union workers see at most only very indirect effects (if at all) from income taxes and inheritance taxes. Public-sector unions have people who may themselves get a bite from taxes, but they know where their paycheck comes from.The core of the movement is uninterested in working with Obama, but the neocon wing is interested. As the Republicans draw in more of the neoconservatives and even some more liberal than that (for instance Brown won the union vote in MA) they will have to become a more reasonable Christian Democrat like party. The paleocon wing will be disgusted and likely isolate themselves around third party candidates, perhaps even a formal tea party. Perhaps that tea party will become significant in the next awakening.
The largest branches of the American Right include
1. The Corporate Right -- people connected firmly and completely to business hierarchies including executives and tycoons. They tolerate regulation of everyone and everything but themselves -- but want the government to avoid challenging their profitable activities, They are sympathetic to abortion and pornography to the extent that such is profitable for them. They hardly see an economic issue that doesn't have a resolution in de-regulation (except to preserve monopolies and cartels) or tax cuts for the only people who matter.
2. The Religious Right -- people who believe that their religious beliefs are the sole means of promoting moral goodness, even if at the expense of science and economic growth. More church attendance, prayer, and Bible-reading are to them the most reliable ways in which to get a better world -- one in which economic concerns are but delusion.
3. The Martial Right (also known as neoconservatives) -- the ones who believe that America is best to show force as a solution to diplomatic squabbles and perhaps to secure resources for Americans.
It is not an easy coalition to keep, but it was enough for Dubya's victories in 2000 and 2004. Beyond 2008? The Right needs a new Ronald Reagan.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Hi Charles –
James50 observed that history appears fractal in nature, which is brilliant. Your MicroTurnings is another finding of this fractal nature.
Can the turnings between Awakenings be cut up as a fractal in the four-part cycle of LD/LN/AD/AN?
1885–1903 – LD
1904-1928 – LN
1929-1945 – AD
1946-1966 – AN
1967-1984 - LD
Could the Boom Awakening turning (1967-1984) be cut up the same way?
1967-1972 – LD
1973-1976 – LN
1977-1980 – AD
1981-1985 - AN
It doesn’t seem to fit, but maybe it can be massaged better than I’ve done.
Whew! I just finished reading all the posts on this thread.
There's a lot of good thought, here. I don't know whether "Gray Visionary" is original with you, but it's the term that I've always wanted to come up with to link Reagan to TR. (I like Jackson being part of that.) I suppose you can keep the word "antagonist" as long as everyone understands that you mean "goat."
While I'm not completely sold on your theory, I do wish to encourage it - as I believe that this is a better use of the web site than political rants. You may feel that you are repeating yourself, but as you are better able to simplify it and support it, you are better able to sell it and get feedback. So, thanks for the thought process, and by all means keep it up.
Hello PoC67 –
I didn’t assign any events to the two cut-up periods because I still don’t understand Charles’ LN/AD theories enough to do so. I was hoping Charles could do that with both the 1885-1966 and the 1967-1984, or any other periods he wishes. I’ve cut the Saeculum (1885-1966) up with S&H’s turning dates, and the Turning (1967-1984) with random picks. Feel free to change the years and add what events that you feel correct. Would enjoy looking at your input.
By doing this exercise, I’m hoping:
- To better understand Charles’ theories.
- Further display the four-part cycle of time being fractal.
Hey Otter, I'm slowly working on getting posts out. Once Spring break is here I'll have more time. Right now I'm juggling talking here & working on homework & studying for midterms... etc.
As for the LD/AN theory. It's a separate theory of its own that I'm slowly working on. It's not in its final form & it's still a little rough around the edges.
I'll soon be posting a link-filled example of how I see the evolution of micro-turnings.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Okay, here's the first part of tracing the evolution of Micro-turnings through multimedia. Some of it is actual footage, others are recreations of earlier eras (mostly the early 20th century links). I tried to find examples of home life, political life, but mostly I went for the general "feel" to each micro-turning--didn't always succeed in getting the other points. I'm quite willing to keep on adding to this post & have others contribute pertinent examples as well.
The years are a combination from the original post/Mr. Reed's post. In fact this post started as a response to Mr. Reed.
Awakening-crisis: 1901 – 1907:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
- Ragtime! – Ragtime - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZbPdFv7qVs
- The Railway Children - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw43SSzutlE (the book by E. Nesbit was published in 1906, but it shows the transition from a Missionary Childhood to a Lost Childhood at least in England)
- Peter Pan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKnI2KPMEjs ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCH8xULFigg (play written in 1904, book published in 1911; Looking at the childhood of the British Contemptibles or the equivalents of the American Losts)
Overall trends of this Unraveling:
The growth and development of Automobiles, Radio, & Electricity.
Faith & distrust of new technologies--"Unsinkable Ships"
Widening gap between social classes.
Income Tax & Prohibition.
Breakdown of Gender Roles - Flappers & Nancy Boys.
The growth of cities and urban areas.
Unraveling-high: 1907 – 1912:
- The Great Race - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CDWihmMRIM
- Titanic - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qakVJW8FYc
- Chitty Chitty Bang Bang - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTQyKV0K3Nc (sure its looking at England--but at this time England was the global hegemon; but it generally displays the positive aspects associated with the wonder and awe surrounding "the motorcar" & the newly developed and dangerous racing culture that was developing very accurately IMO. Also it brings a question about how children should be raised as Jemima & Jeremy seem to me to be very typical British Contemptibles or the equivalent to Losts)
- The Secret Garden - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrMahhudZvo (book was published in 1910 by a British-American author; further shows life for the little Contemptibles aka Losts--left to their own devices)
- A Little Princess - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_zW4QdGDC8 (book by the same authoress as The Secret Garden, this one looks more at American children, particularly the difference between the rich Lost & the poor Lost)
- Five Children and It - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Veq-jtyg-F0 (again, showing how the Contemptibles & therefore the Lost, occupied themselves while their parents were busy doing other things)
I have to say, the Contemptibles & the Losts really had a lot of great Children's Literature written about them.
Unraveling-awakening: 1912 – 1917:
Unraveling-unraveling: 1917 – 1925:
- The Music Man – Ya Got Trouble - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI_Oe-jtgdI
Unraveling-crisis: 1925 – 1929:
- Thoroughly Modern Millie – Thoroughly Modern Millie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVNcLUE87HQ
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
- Bubble Economics - Stock Market Crash - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJpLMvgUXe8
Crisis-high: 1929 – 1933:
Crisis-awakening: 1933 – 1938:
- 42nd Street – 42nd Street - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuqJJMSK15U
Crisis-unraveling: 1938 – 1941:
- We’re in the Money – Gold Diggers of 1933 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJOjTNuuEVw
- Star Dust – Glenn Miller - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W5eiyLrHXY;
- Reefer Madness - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM_vLk1I6G4 ;
Crisis-crisis: 1941 – 1946:
- Bringing up Baby - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4U4aA0ZmVM
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
- Tora! Tora! Tora! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFmVtZLnHio
High-high: 1946 – 1950:
- It’s a Wonderful Life - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0k_Vsmqf6X8 ;
- Isn’t It Kinda Fun – State Fair - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0As5d0hdmbA (despite its 1945 release, the entire movie has a very post-Crisis feel to it, looking forward to the society that’s being set up & critiquing it a little too);
High-awakening: 1950 – 1955:
- The Chase – Brigadoon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPGv3yr3Lpk (musical: 1949, movie 1954 – expresses the postwar feelings of GIs and allegorically criticizes & celebrates the return to “simpler” & older values & morals.)
- The Manchurian Candidate - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_iBcXCu84w ; (made in 1962 but this scene takes place in the early 1950s, before Raymond goes off to fight in Korea)
High-unraveling: 1955 – 1959:
- Two Lost Souls - Damn Yankees - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGdPgUFe11Y (book: 1954, musical: 1955, movie: 1958 - shows that the youth are more jazzy “beatniks” than “rock ‘n’ rollers”)
- Hound Dog – Elvis Presley - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6A3vLlVa3I ;
- Honestly Sincere – Bye Bye Birdie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqCjsxkB4KE (even though this movie version is set in the early 1960s, the original play is set in 1958) ;
- Bell, Book, & Candle - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_Gpdo3DZ3A ;
High-crisis: 1959 – 1963/4:
- Everyday – Buddy Holly - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMezwtB1oCU
- The Obsolete Man – The Twilight Zone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXzQD...rom=PL&index=3 ;
- Dr. Strangelove - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU ;
- The Shelter – The Twilight Zone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHIxR-D4Evo ;
- It's a Good Life - The Twilight Zone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfGWvexg90w ; This episode starts looking at Boomer kids in a negative light, depicting them lost in a world of their own making & having ideas that they can get whatever they want because they want it, warning of the authoritarian tendencies being planted in them. It also depicts the inability of Silent parents to cope with having to raise a kid like a GI would--"indulgently". It shows that the Silents haven't formed their own parenting influence and are merely copying the GIs at the moment. Also a nice introduction of the Aunt Amy shows that the Interbellums/Losts are starting to age and have dementia. That they show signs of being more a hindrance than a help in their elder years.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
- I Am the Night—Color Me Black – The Twilight Zone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swiKTHeDNH8 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URlR8-iRVBo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo5Zkq1Wd14
Overall themes of this Awakening:
Sexual Revolution--Free Love & Swingers, Civil Rights Movement--Racial Equality & Racial Pride, Jesus Movement, Divorce, Growing influence of Corporations, Feminism--Women's Liberation, Intensification of Cold War, enlightenment through self-satisfying pleasure.
Awakening-high: 1963/4 – 1967:
- The Bewitchin’ Pool – The Twilight Zone - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgoA66bmby4 ;
- The Graduate - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9eIXN6Sp40 ;
Awakening-awakening: 1967 – 1973:
- Rosemary’s Baby - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqQ-18lmqdg (filmed in 1968, set in 1966)
- Guess Who’s Coming to Dinner - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yt0wxoFl4o ;
- Sweet Charity – Rhythm of Life - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmKxgRzc3f0 ;
- Vietnam War (actual footage) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDy0Z3HSkTE
- Say it Loud (I'm Black and I'm Proud) - James Brown - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VRSAVDlpDI ;
Awakening-unraveling: 1973 – 1978:
- What’s up Doc? - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u43HqgbCSfA
- Rocky Horror Picture Show – Hot Patootie - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hz99mdwojgo ;
- Network - "There is no Democracy" speech - http://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=FBzYiwn-li8&v=RzSj1yNZdY8 ; (portrays the "death of the individual" & the creed of "corporate greed" that was just in its infancy during this time period.)
- Shining Star - Earth, Wind, & Fire - Genre: Funk - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwc0AW67CmA ;
- You are my first, my last, my everything - Barry White - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fcd3XuQwDQQ ;
- Saturday Night Fever – Stayin’ Alive - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_PVPu1EKr4 ;
- The Stepford Wives - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9WOMDsMy78 ;
Awakening-crisis: 1978 – 1984:
- A Boy and his Dog - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9ermq_-jog
- Shock Treatment – Shock Treatment - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnvVtCC-nsw ;
- Shock Treatment – Me of Me - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5v-jYWukhw ;
- Red Dawn - http://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=F0clv8ccTSI&v=1_I4WgBfETc ; This movie shows the over hyped paranoia associated with Cold War that starts in this time period and peeks in the Unraveling-high
- The Hunt for the Red October - http://www.youtube.com/watch#!videos=S6x61YkZX54&v=3C2tE7vjdHk ; (the book is from 1984, the movie is from 1990; shows how far the Cold War paranoia went, with the author fictionally portraying the nightmarish technology that the GOP were saying the USSR was accomplishing, but in actuality they weren't)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
- Poltergeist - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szoTggTxygY ; (In both ET & Poltergeist I’m looking at the parents’ behaviors - In E.T. a divorced single working mom who is clueless about E.T.'s presence in her home & what her kids do; In Poltergeist: pot smoking parents who are more into satisfying themselves, and often do things that nowadays parents would be heavily critized for - letting Carol Anne watch a violent war movie being one example)
Overall themes of this Unraveling:
The growth of the personal computer & the Internet, End of the Cold War, a growing Gothic & a combination of fairy tale/science fiction/mythology/fantasy culture oriented towards teens & children, Era of Neo Conservatism, Terrorism, Yuppie & the Upwardly Mobile culture, gated communities, rise of the Geek.
Unraveling-high: 1984 – 1988:
Classic John Hughes movies
- Sixteen Candles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcKqtzj8LAg ;
- The Breakfast Club - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8qb9TRqZsM ;
- Some Kind of Wonderful - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ft7Lc0RN2_w ;
- Weird Science - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOHo5BoIXOA ;
Other
- Pretty in Pink - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcSMDqXT52s ;
- Neverending Story - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3DcWtkKeIY
- Labyrinth - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WT_xpFZe20A
- Cocoon - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQLZlIoNI8c ;
- Donnie Darko - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFoJ6XNeKOI & http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Oa-qlz2AY (filmed in 2001 & set in 1988, some parts are partly autobiographical for the film maker) ;
- Into the Woods - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z20VJXdH4Dg
Unraveling-awakening: 1988 – 1995:
- Children’s Zoo – The Twilight Zone (1985 series) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBe3zS1H3A8 (starts around 1:19; it’s about the transition in parenting styles from self-absorbed, condescending, & argumentative parents to caring, sincere, & nurturing parents)
- The Uncle Devil Show - The Twilight Zone (1985 series) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIMzH9yuywI (it's also about the transition in parenting styles, ironically funny its message is that parents should pay more attention to their kids & monitor what they watch on television: "And remember kids, have it the way I do, with plenty of sweets and candy bars in between meals.")
- Beetlejuice - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FmiA7gGnvY
- 1992 GOP Convention - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_E9sZqunJ_M ;
- Patriot Games - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86janCeyCdg
- Goodbye Lenin! - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kehu8QBHCCk ; (made: 2003, set in: 1989-1990: hilarious German comedy about the reunification of Germany--a very pro DDR mother has a stroke after seeing her son protesting amongst the group of people that would eventually topple the wall; she wakes up after the fall of communism and the son is told by the doctors not to give her any more shocks to her system--or she'll have another stroke and die. So her son develops this elaborate ruse to keep her in the dark about the fall of communism. This is the scene where the mother sneaks out of the house and sees for the first time East & West Germany culturally reunifying. I'm using this to point to the elevated euphoric emotions that would come to dominate this time period & drive the U-a in America and showing the root of the cause being the end of the Cold War.)
- Addams Family Values - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccj2BH25c0I (Perfect example of the divide amongst Gen Yers--from this you can tell who the future Ron Paul voters & future Obama voters will be & also an explanation of why this is so; parodies Yuppie & Upwardly Mobile culture as well)
Unraveling-unraveling: 1995 – 2000:
- Hocus Pocus - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDidHzwYu3E (made in 1998, set in 1993, shows the stereotyped relationship between Nintendo Xer teens & Gen Yer younger siblings; also depicts that the kids are left on their own while parents are off partying in a self-gratifying world of pleasure that was the 1990s; also depicts the fantasy market that was aimed at children) ;
Unraveling-crisis: 2000 – 2005:
- Monica Lewinsky Scandal - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClfpG2-1Bv4 ;
- Dave - http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Vkf4VQx2MHE&feature=related ; (an obvious portrayal of the Clinton years, the dreams surrounding that time and the less than ideal realities.)
- 10 things I hate about you - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWmjzCZr0Jw ; (although a retelling of the Taming of the Shrew, it gives a parody of teenage culture of the time)
- Clueless - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFR9TNsByLk ;
- Snow White: A tale of terror - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmCLjShLiTQ
- 10th Kingdom - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVP2_BzNPxU
- The Odyssey - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfJ7GmTV26g
- Cuckoo Clock of Doom – Goosebumps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezvEP6Wg5ak (set in 1995 with tensions between a 1983 Gen Yer clinging to the young teen Nintendo Xer stereotype & a 1988 Gen Yer younger sister; the story uses the stereotyped relationship between Nintendo wave Xers & Gen Yers during the 1990s)
- Sleepy Hollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYHt8SdUj-U
- Flight 93 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afx8_5MVf5s ;
- Crooked E - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDY8feXyPY ;
- Survivor - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJrv6kT7zJQ ;
- Desperate Housewives - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06bNBvkX3kU ;
- Snow Queen - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEojXa6voVo
- 2000 election - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHK1-LA8zEU ;
- Twilight (book published in 2005) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2T7d8j6I5I
- Sanctuary – The Twilight Zone (2002 series) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qF2RuVHzrY ;
- Evergreen – The Twilight Zone (2002 series) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNGID9MMnLo
Enjoy watching them, it's taken a whole week to gather and decide on what to include.
- Upgrade - The Twilight Zone (2002 series) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZPkA5rphAM
- MadTV - Abercrombie Skits - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3-WzqfbVHU
- Future Trade - The Twilight zone (2002 series) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQiYn-xfNsk
Comments? Critiques?
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 03-16-2010 at 06:00 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Woah! You don't mess arouind, do you?! Are all Millys as hard-working as you? I'll check some of these out given time; I've started with "The Obselete Man" FWIW. I hope this didn't put you out too much.
Thanks, PoC67
PS:
My cats try to get to the sound that comes out of My Lap-Top.
Laugh Riot it is! I'll be in touch soon.
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."
