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Thread: Micro-Turnings - Page 9







Post#201 at 10-03-2011 03:09 PM by Tussilago [at Gothenburg, Sweden joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,500]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Personally I believe we've been in a Crisis-Awakening since last year. The Right got there first because Bush discredited the Republicans first.

9/11 was part of the Unraveling-crisis IMO--destroying the Unraveling culture viability & setting up the new Crisis culture.

How I'd split up the lines today:

1978 - 1984 - Awakening-crisis (Crisis of Confidence, Iran Hostage Crisis, Evil Empire, "The Bear in the Woods")
1984 - 1989 - Unraveling-high (Morning in America, Reagan & Gorbechov, Challenger Explosion, "It was George Bush who led the way")
1989 - 1995 - Unraveling-awakening (Fall of the Berlin Wall, 1992 Election, Giant Sucking Sound, Government Shutdown)
1995 - 2000 - Unraveling-unraveling (OJ Simpson Trial, 1996 Atlanta Olympics, Monica Lewinsky Scandal, US Embassy Bombings, Columbine, Y2K)
2000 - 2005 - Unraveling-crisis (2000 Election, 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Freedom Fries, 2004 Election, Big Box Mart - Big Box Mart IMO shows the atrophy of the consumerism philosophy of this period quite well)
2005 - 2010 - Crisis-high (Katrina, Housing Bubble, Great Recession, TARP, Healthcare Reform, Citizen's United)
2010 - 20?? - Crisis-awakening (Tea Party, Wikileaks, Madison Protests, Arab Spring, Occupy Protests)

While I was compiling links I ran across these interesting things of note on YouTube:

A Greatest Cusper (1923 cohort) is asked by her Xer grandson to compare the Great Depression & Great Recession: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AECXaCvdN8

Another Greatest Cusper (1923 cohort) talks in detail about the comparisons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oanuTS0O9CA ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMCG0xUZKqA ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VciI4X7jnpg

~Chas'88
I would argue though that the Unraveling-Awakening started in 1987 with the combined effects of the Wall Street crash killing off the yuppie, Gorbachev and east-west detente leading to the withering away of the Cold War and ending Vietnam mania, and a new 60's-early 70's nostalgia revival in pop culture replacing the 50's nostalgia that had been prevalent - not to say fulfilling the role of a guiding social mythology to illustrate anti-Awakening feelings - since the 70's.

Secondly, if we define the late 70's-early 80's as the Awakening-Crisis, that Micro-Turning I think should have started in 1977 (yeah, I know. Here we go again... ). For instance, in American society, that year saw a number of mass hysteria erupting that implicitly targeted the Consciousness Revolution, centering around the real or imagined hazards that 60's spawned culture implied towards children and young people. Among these were religious/New Age cults, pornography and devil drugs. (See: Jenkins, Philip: Decade of Nightmares, especially chapter 4 "The Politics of Children: 1977" (2006)).
Furthermore, I'd say the Awakening-Crisis lasted until about 1982 or 1983 at the latest. However, I admit this might be European bias and the US possibly were behind the times by a year or two. As for the end of the Unraveling-Awakening, I'd probably put that around 1993 accompanied by the bloodshed in Yugoslavia and the end of grunge, but 1995 or even 1992 might perhaps do just as well. Consequently, the breakdown that I would suggest would look something like this:

Awakening-Crisis: 1977-1982
Unraveling-High: 1983-1986 (This period coincides with what might be labeled "The High 80's". It's the 80's that people generally remember.)
Unraveling-Awakening: 1987-1993
Unraveling-Unraveling: 1994-2000 (Quentin Tarantino, Trainspotting, Blair and Clinton)
Unraveling-Crisis: 2001-2008 (The decade of 9/11)
Last edited by Tussilago; 10-03-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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Post#202 at 10-03-2011 03:18 PM by Tussilago [at Gothenburg, Sweden joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,500]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
And the sad part of it is most Americans came out of that debate thinking of Perot as the SNL caricature. And people my age usually only remember the All That caricature. (All That being a pre-teen/teen equivalent to SNL)

I might not completely have agreed with his solutions, but Perot was addressing an issue that was very much a reality for my neck of the woods.

~Chas'88
I must confess something. I intentionally wrote that comment based solely on what Ross Perot said in that clip in order not to get my judgement muddled. Despite me presenting myself at times as some crackpot expert on post WWII American culture (yeah what nerve, or better yet, what lack of tact!), I know positively nothing of Perot's politics. Guess I just didn't pay that much attention back then. So what does "SNL" stand for? Alright, I'll google it. Cheers!
Last edited by Tussilago; 10-03-2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Post#203 at 10-03-2011 03:23 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Personally I believe we've been in a Crisis-Awakening since last year. The Right got there first because Bush discredited the Republicans first.

9/11 was part of the Unraveling-crisis IMO--destroying the Unraveling culture viability & setting up the new Crisis culture.

How I'd split up the lines today:

1978 - 1984 - Awakening-crisis (Crisis of Confidence, Iran Hostage Crisis, Evil Empire, "The Bear in the Woods")
1984 - 1989 - Unraveling-high (Morning in America, Reagan & Gorbechov, Challenger Explosion, "It was George Bush who led the way")
1989 - 1995 - Unraveling-awakening (Fall of the Berlin Wall, 1992 Election, Giant Sucking Sound, Oklahoma City Bombing, Government Shutdown)
1995 - 2000 - Unraveling-unraveling (OJ Simpson Trial, 1996 Atlanta Olympics, Centennial Olympic Park Bombing, Monica Lewinsky Scandal, US Embassy Bombings, Columbine, Y2K)
2000 - 2005 - Unraveling-crisis (2000 Election, 9/11, Afghanistan, Iraq, Freedom Fries, 2004 Election, Big Box Mart - Big Box Mart IMO shows the atrophy of the consumerism philosophy of this period quite well)
2005 - 2010 - Crisis-high (Katrina, Housing Bubble, Great Recession, TARP, Healthcare Reform, Citizen's United)
2010 - 20?? - Crisis-awakening (Tea Party, Wikileaks, Madison Protests, Arab Spring, Occupy Protests)

While I was compiling links I ran across these interesting things of note on YouTube:

A Greatest Cusper (1923 cohort) is asked by her Xer grandson to compare the Great Depression & Great Recession: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AECXaCvdN8

Another Greatest Cusper (1923 cohort) talks in detail about the comparisons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oanuTS0O9CA ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMCG0xUZKqA ; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VciI4X7jnpg

~Chas'88
Okay so what would happen during an Unraveling Crisis, now that everyone has been awakened?

Also, I like how you made S & H prediction of a 2005 start date make sense. That is when things started to get intense, after the 2004 election and towards the Iraq troop Surge. That is also when I started to personally feel a dread in the air. Thicker then the one after 9-11. From this point we started to have many moments like this capture on mainstream TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUzLpO1kxI

Furthermore, Bush's gaffes increased.

Speaking of increase, the Housing prices peaked in early 2006, and then started to decline in 2006 and 2007.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#204 at 10-03-2011 03:33 PM by Tussilago [at Gothenburg, Sweden joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,500]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Not just in Crisis-crises, but in other micro-crises as well. It also usually includes a repudiation of everything that the Turning stood for before the micro-crisis (the 1920s micro-crisis).

~Chas'88
Which accidentally strengthens the case for 1977 as the beginning of the Awakening-Crisis, I dare say.
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Post#205 at 10-03-2011 03:39 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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According the the info provided by Chas, we may be in an Unraveling Crsis around 2015 and I'm already thinking about how the 2016 election plays into this.

Chas, did this usher in the last Unraveling Crsis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_19371938
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#206 at 10-03-2011 05:16 PM by Tussilago [at Gothenburg, Sweden joined Jan 2010 #posts 1,500]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tussilago View Post
So what does "SNL" stand for? Alright, I'll google it. Cheers!
Saturday Night Live! Obviously, my cowbells weren't all ringing. *Smacks forehead*
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Post#207 at 10-03-2011 08:05 PM by LateBoomer [at joined Sep 2011 #posts 1,007]
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Clearly, we have just entered the Awakening part of the Crisis.
"My truck has 170,000 miles on it and the MPG is so bad that every time I start it, the ghost of an Indian appears in the passenger seat and cries."
--John Cheese



*INFJ Joneser*
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Post#208 at 10-03-2011 08:18 PM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tussilago View Post
Which accidentally strengthens the case for 1977 as the beginning of the Awakening-Crisis, I dare say.
Makes sense to me. Disco, cocaine, incurable STDs, inflation...all features of the Awakening endgame...exploded in '77, the year I started college.
Last edited by Roadbldr '59; 10-03-2011 at 08:20 PM.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#209 at 10-03-2011 10:17 PM by TeddyR [at joined Aug 2011 #posts 998]
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Quote Originally Posted by Roadbldr '59 View Post
Makes sense to me. Disco, cocaine, incurable STDs, inflation...all features of the Awakening endgame...exploded in '77, the year I started college.
And it hit its peak with Iranian Hostage Crisis and the somewhat forgotten doomed mission to save them. Boy, was that a low moment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Eagle_Claw







Post#210 at 10-03-2011 10:24 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by millennialX View Post
According the the info provided by Chas, we may be in an Unraveling Crsis around 2015 and I'm already thinking about how the 2016 election plays into this.

Chas, did this usher in the last Unraveling Crsis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recession_of_19371938
Yes. It made people question Roosevelt & his New Deal policies--if they were so great, why were we now back into Recession? I have an entire book on that part of the Depression that I'd love to pull out and quote right now, but it's packed away and probably won't be unpacked until I find my own place to live.

Micro-unravelings are where the ideas that arise out of the micro-awakenings combat one another and question their validity. As they do so they slowly tear apart the larger Turning culture & bring it into question--leading us into the micro-Crisis where it becomes obvious that the Turning culture is no longer valid and a new path must be forged for society & that new way must be put into place, now.

Comparing it to a plot-line:

The High is the introductory part at the beginning of the story where characters, setting, & situation are set up, and the Falling Action & denouement at the end where all loose ends are tied up.

The Awakening is sparked by the inciting moment which disturbs the calm of the introduction with the birth of new ideas, and is a constant escalation as the new ideas are developed and interact with one another--the Rising Action.

The Unraveling is a plot twist, when a wrench is thrown into the system and people question the validity of the new ideas and things continue to deteriorate as the questioning of these ideas involves more and more of society. The plot doesn't really develop or go anywhere, and the new ideas don't really change--just the amount of people continuing to be affected and made to be involved does.

The Crisis is the climax of the story, where the whole of society is involved and everything within the society depends upon the settling of these ideas, and they are dealt with swiftly and deftly.

~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 10-03-2011 at 10:41 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#211 at 10-03-2011 10:32 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Yes. It made people question Roosevelt & his New Deal policies--if they were so great, why were we now back into Recession? I have an entire book on that part of the Depression that I'd love to pull out and quote right now, but it's packed away and probably won't be unpacked until I find my own place to live.

~Chas'88
If you do have the time, can you write a quick description for each turning within this 4T. For example, what are characteristics of Unraveling Crisis. Basically people questioning the initiatives from the Awakening Crisis?

Same for Crisis, Crisis.

If you actually put this in a book, we wouldn't have to worry about your time and I can just pay you!
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#212 at 10-03-2011 10:42 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by millennialX View Post
If you do have the time, can you write a quick description for each turning within this 4T. For example, what are characteristics of Unraveling Crisis. Basically people questioning the initiatives from the Awakening Crisis?

Same for Crisis, Crisis.

If you actually put this in a book, we wouldn't have to worry about your time and I can just pay you!
See my edited post where I responded to you while you responded to me.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#213 at 10-03-2011 10:50 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by LateBoomer View Post
Clearly, we have just entered the Awakening part of the Crisis.
Last year we began that--with the birth of the Tea Party. The people on the right were able to get "awakened" first because Bush had throughout the Crisis-high up to that point already discredited the 3Ting ideas of Republicans through his guffaws, blundering, inefficiency, and political unsuitability. What got the ball rolling was America seeing Bush walk through the ruins of New Orleans with a "WTF" look on his face on National Television. That image, coupled with reports of how the government failed to respond to the catastrophe, changed the course of his presidency. Before September 2005 he could've done shit and gotten away with it (like he did from 2001 - 2004), from September 2005 onward he just increasingly became more and more of a joke, and the American people knew it.

IMO it's also the spark of one of the major theme of this crisis: The government is inefficient & can no longer "save us" or "respond properly" to a crisis. Notice this was not the reaction to 9/11 where belief in the government to fix problems was at a high. Notice that since Bush discredited the government, what does the Right do? Start a movement that's anti-big government: the Tea-Party.

Democrats meanwhile still thought we could go back to Clinton era--and this is one thing I heard from Democrats in the 2008 election (especially from Joneser Dems): "What was wrong with the 1990s? We got the budget under control and the economy was booming. And all this happened with a Democrat in office." And while Obama picked up younger voters with his campaign promises of Change and Hope (the message & necessity of a Crisis), he selected cabinet members and enacted policies like Clinton would have done. And what Obama has done has completely discredited the 3Ting philosophies of Democrats--hence why we see the Occupy movement now and not in 2008.

~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 10-04-2011 at 12:03 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#214 at 10-03-2011 11:06 PM by TeddyR [at joined Aug 2011 #posts 998]
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Quote Originally Posted by LateBoomer View Post
Clearly, we have just entered the Awakening part of the Crisis.
It seems like awakenings, whether you are talking about a capital A Awakening or a micro turning awakening, start with a mini high (micro micro turning) and quickly descends into a low. The low point of the four turnings is the mid point of an awakening. Think of an upside down bell curve.

If that is true, 2012 and 2013 could be rough times for us as a society and that we are not to the regeneracy everyone is eager to declare is here now.







Post#215 at 10-03-2011 11:50 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tussilago View Post
I would argue though that the Unraveling-Awakening started in 1987 with the combined effects of the Wall Street crash killing off the yuppie, Gorbachev and east-west detente leading to the withering away of the Cold War and ending Vietnam mania, and a new 60's-early 70's nostalgia revival in pop culture replacing the 50's nostalgia that had been prevalent - not to say fulfilling the role of a guiding social mythology to illustrate anti-Awakening feelings - since the 70's.
I see the Unraveling-awakening as the re-emergence of the Religious Right which appeared in the 1992 election (they had retreated slightly after they had been discredited at the end of the Awakening-crisis with scandal) & prompted a lot of moderate Republicans to jump ship and vote for Clinton. Clinton himself was an Unraveling-awakening figure meaning that he represented to Democrats a viable challenge/answer to the era of Reagan (Unraveling-high) in their eyes and they were brought alive by the possibilities of his election--especially concerning Healthcare. I see the fruition of the Unraveling-awakening with the government shutdown, which prompted a reversal reaction in the American people to say "shut up & work together already". After the government shutdown you don't see Clinton & co. pushing for National Healthcare, and Clinton generally tacking more to the right on issues.

Secondly, if we define the late 70's-early 80's as the Awakening-Crisis, that Micro-Turning I think should have started in 1977 (yeah, I know. Here we go again... ). For instance, in American society, that year saw a number of mass hysteria erupting that implicitly targeted the Consciousness Revolution, centering around the real or imagined hazards that 60's spawned culture implied towards children and young people. Among these were religious/New Age cults, pornography and devil drugs. (See: Jenkins, Philip: Decade of Nightmares, especially chapter 4 "The Politics of Children: 1977" (2006)).
I agree that these issues began to take off during the Awakening-crisis, thanks for suggesting titles to read.

Furthermore, I'd say the Awakening-Crisis lasted until about 1982 or 1983 at the latest. However, I admit this might be European bias and the US possibly were behind the times by a year or two.
The change is actually noticable in how Reagan addressed the USSR. Before 1984 he called them the "Evil Empire" and employed what the Neo-conservatives had done all through the 1970s of over-exaggerating Soviet capabilities to scare the American people--it's a tactic that Bush Jr. would return to after 9/11--and saying the idea of "working with" the Soviets was a non-option. After 1984 he began working with Gorbachev towards nuclear disarmament. What had changed? If that doesn't scream "the mood has changed" I don't know what does.

I'm also reminded of a scene from the Tony Kushner play Angels in America which takes place in 1985. Admittedly I haven't read the entirety of the play, just seen a few scenes here and there. The one scene that strikes me is where Joe announces to his wife Harper that he wants to take the job offer to work in Washington. He talks about how President Reagan is bringing the country back to life and that marks me as the spirit of the Unraveling-high. Meanwhile his wife Harper is jittery about how their apartment looks like the one from Rosemary's Baby & that moving to Georgetown would be worse since that's where The Exorcist took place. Her jittery & fearful behavior--augmented slightly by vallium--is also her world view which marked me as very Awakening-crisis. Her focus is still stuck in the Awakening making references to Awakening moments, fears, concerns, and Awakening movies. Meanwhile her husband is moving forward into the Unraveling & wanting to be caught up in the positive atmosphere that Reagan is engendering on the nation now, at this moment. The scene also shows that her viewpoint is antiquated now in 1985 IMO.

I found the scene online done by undergraduate actors for 5 minute scenes.
The quality is what it is, but the words don't change.

The spirit of the Unraveling-high continues into 1988 with George H.W. Bush envoking that feeling through such election campaign commercials like the one I posted. Bush tried to be a continuation of the Unraveling-high, but flounders on issues & is caught off-guard by the Unraveling-awakening. He tries to co-opt the re-emergence of the Religious Right in the 1992 election (upon promptings from W), but comes off as ingenuous & embraces a new idea that scares more voters away from him than brings them together. His re-election is also hampered by the emergence of Perot who acts as Teddy Roosevelt did in 1912--eighty years earlier.

As for the end of the Unraveling-Awakening, I'd probably put that around 1993 accompanied by the bloodshed in Yugoslavia and the end of grunge, but 1995 or even 1992 might perhaps do just as well.
I've already addressed this earlier in this post.

Awakening-Crisis: 1977-1982
Unraveling-High: 1983-1986 (This period coincides with what might be labeled "The High 80's". It's the 80's that people generally remember.)
Unraveling-Awakening: 1987-1993
Unraveling-Unraveling: 1994-2000 (Quentin Tarantino, Trainspotting, Blair and Clinton)
Unraveling-Crisis: 2001-2008 (The decade of 9/11)
These are intriguing sets of dates to explore and debate over. I think now that we all know that the Unraveling is behind us, now we can dedicate ourselves to exploring it & examining it.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#216 at 10-12-2011 05:03 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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I had an epiphany watching Rock Island from The Music Man. The entire "rap" talks about how the Awakening has ended & how in the past few years the Unraveling has settled in--and how Harold Hill threatens the calm of the new Unraveling mood. So the film is at an Unraveling-high/Unraveling-awakening cusp, with some reflection towards how the Unraveling replaced the Awakening.

"It's them big new department stores back east. They let folks buy anything on credit. If I don't give credit I'm going to loose customers."

"Credit is old fashioned!"

"Cash for the merchandise, cash for the button hooks, cash for the cotton goods, cash for the hard goods, cash for the soft goods, cash for the fancy goods..."

"You can talk all you wanna but it's different than it was!"

"No it ain't but you gotta know the territory!"

"It's the Model-T Ford that made the trouble made the people wanna get, wanna get up and go twenty three miles to the county seat!"

"Who's gonna patronize a little bitty two-by-four kinda store anymore?"

"It's not the Model-T at all! Take a look at the modern departmentalized grocery store!"

"Why it's the 'you need a biscuit' thing that made the trouble, put the crackers in an air-tight sanitary package that made the cracker barrel obsolete!"

"Cracker barrel went out the window with the mail-post *something something* sitting by the stove"

"Gone went the Hogshead cask and Demijohns, gone with the sugar barrel, pickle barrel, milk barrel..."

Deductions: The Unraveling arrived with the Model-T Ford, the rise of department & grocery stores, the rise of buying things on credit, and sanitized packaging!

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#217 at 10-13-2011 04:57 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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What marks each micro turning within the last high?

HIGH 1T- Truman dealing with a post war economy, strikes, threatening to draft people and having a crazy election.

AWAKENING 1T- Maybe when Truman finally started to get respect? Or when McCarthyism hearings started to loose steam or building of the high way system?

CRISIS 1T- Bus Boycotts- 1955 and into the 60's, Space Race?
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#218 at 10-13-2011 05:08 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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High-Awakening

Levittown

Disneyland
McCarthyism rebuttle
Korean War which helped fan the flames of McCarthyism

All of which paved the way for the Awakening. Levittown provided the place for Xer latch-key kids to be emotionally abandoned & neglected in. The challenge on McCarthyism & Communist scares allowed for the New Left to emerge in the early part of the decade. Disneyland provided a vision for Tomorrow & the vacations we'd take throughout the Awakening.

In terms of Turnings, the seeds of the next turning are found in the previous turning. The micro-high is the fruition of all the "hard work" of the last turning & a brief calm before the seas turn rough once again as society attempts to "move forward" once again.

Another way to think about it is that you can list the turnings as such:

1933 - 1937 - Crisis-awakening
1937 - 1941 - Crisis-unraveling
1941 - 1945 - Crisis-crisis
1945 - 1950 - High-high

1950 - 1955 - High-awakening; Disneyland
1955 - 1959 - High-unraveling; Rock 'n' Roll "Golden Years"
1959 - 1964 - High-crisis; Kennedy & the Establishment of Liberalism
1964 - 1968 - Awakening-high; The Great Society

~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 10-13-2011 at 05:18 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#219 at 10-13-2011 05:17 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
High-Awakening

Levittown

Disneyland
McCarthyism rebuttle
Korean War which helped fan the flames of McCarthyism

All of which paved the way for the Awakening. Levittown provided the place for Xer latch-key kids to be emotionally abandoned & neglected in. The challenge on McCarthyism & Communist scares allowed for the New Left to emerge in the early part of the decade. Disneyland provided a vision for Tomorrow & the vacations we'd take throughout the Awakening.

In terms of Turnings, the seeds of the next turning are found in the previous turning. The micro-high is the fruition of all the "hard work" of the last turning & a brief calm before the seas turn rough once again as society attempts to "move forward" once again.

Another way to think about it is that you can list the turnings as such:

1933 - 1937 - Crisis-awakening
1937 - 1941 - Crisis-unraveling
1941 - 1945 - Crisis-crisis
1945 - 1950 - High-high

1950 - 1955 - High-awakening
1955 - 1959 - High-unraveling
1959 - 1964 - High-crisis
1964 - 1968 - Awakening-high

~Chas'88
Susan/ LateBoomer brought up on another thread that the birth of Rock N Roll fits perfectly with the HIGH-awakening.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#220 at 10-13-2011 05:18 PM by LateBoomer [at joined Sep 2011 #posts 1,007]
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MillennialX asked me to repost this here:

Millennial 1T micro-turnings:

The High-Awakening began with the birth of rock and roll, about 1953. Only that was about 7 years into the High already, so I can't really explain that. Micro-turnings, like real turnings, can probably vary in their length.

The High-Unraveling started around 1957 or 1958, with the first signs of the coming Awakening and tremors of the music and culture to come--the Beat movement, early folk and poetry readings, the beginning of the civil rights movement, rock and roll suddenly taking a more frenetic and rebellious turn from the tame and romantic doo-wop of the early 1950s (Buddy Holly, "Good Golly Miss Molly"), and the birthrate finally peaking in 1957--1958 was the first year of the decline in the birthrate that would continue until the early 1980s.

The High-Crisis was quite short, beginning probably with the Cuban Missile crisis in 1962. Normally, Crisis eras tend to be a bit shorter than other turnings anyway, which is a good thing.
Last edited by LateBoomer; 10-13-2011 at 06:11 PM.
"My truck has 170,000 miles on it and the MPG is so bad that every time I start it, the ghost of an Indian appears in the passenger seat and cries."
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Please join my Facebook group, Fans of the Fourth Turning.







Post#221 at 10-13-2011 05:23 PM by x in az [at joined Feb 2011 #posts 105]
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Quote Originally Posted by LateBoomer View Post
MillennialX asked me to repost this here:

Millennial 1T micro-turnings:

The High-Awakening began with the birth of rock and roll, about 1953. Only that was about 7 years into the High already, so I can't really explain that. Micro-turnings, like real turnings, can probably vary in their length.

The High-Unraveling started around 1957, with the first signs of the coming Awakening and tremors of the music and culture to come--the Beat movement, poetry readings, the beginning of the civil rights movement, rock and roll suddenly taking a more frenetic and rebellious turn from the tame and romantic doo-wop of the early 1950s (Buddy Holly, "Good Golly Miss Molly"), and the birthrate finally peaking in 1957--1958 was the first year of the decline in the birthrate that would continue until the early 1980s.

The High-Crisis was quite short, beginning probably with the Cuban Missile crisis in 1962. Normally, Crisis eras tend to be a bit shorter than other turnings anyway, which is a good thing.
I find this micro-turning idea fascinating, and wonder how it extends into the Awakening/Unraveling. So would the Awakening-Awakening then be 1969 (Summer of Love) and then perhaps end with 1972 and the Watergate trials?
x-er born in 1971

"Have fun storming the castle!" --Miracle Max







Post#222 at 10-13-2011 05:31 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
High-Awakening

Levittown

Disneyland
McCarthyism rebuttle
Korean War which helped fan the flames of McCarthyism

All of which paved the way for the Awakening. Levittown provided the place for Xer latch-key kids to be emotionally abandoned & neglected in. The challenge on McCarthyism & Communist scares allowed for the New Left to emerge in the early part of the decade. Disneyland provided a vision for Tomorrow & the vacations we'd take throughout the Awakening.

In terms of Turnings, the seeds of the next turning are found in the previous turning. The micro-high is the fruition of all the "hard work" of the last turning & a brief calm before the seas turn rough once again as society attempts to "move forward" once again.

Another way to think about it is that you can list the turnings as such:

1933 - 1937 - Crisis-awakening
1937 - 1941 - Crisis-unraveling
1941 - 1945 - Crisis-crisis
1945 - 1950 - High-high

1950 - 1955 - High-awakening; Disneyland
1955 - 1959 - High-unraveling; Rock 'n' Roll "Golden Years"
1959 - 1964 - High-crisis; Kennedy & the Establishment of Liberalism
1964 - 1968 - Awakening-high; The Great Society

~Chas'88
Oh just noticed you had it for the Unraveling. I guess this suggest an 1T unraveling into 2T mode.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#223 at 10-13-2011 05:32 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by millennialX View Post
Susan/ LateBoomer brought up on another thread that the birth of Rock N Roll fits perfectly with the HIGH-awakening.
Rock 'n' Roll didn't go mainstream until 1955 with this little tune. After which you have a plethora of Rock 'n' Roll Movies like Rock, Rock, Rock, Don't Knock the Rock, and several others were produced--trying to sell Rock 'n' Roll to parents by comparing it to the Jazz they listened to as Young Adults. All of which came to a crashing halt when Payola scandal hit as well as other Rock 'n' Roll stars either died (Buddy Holly), went into the Army (Elvis), left rock 'n' roll for more holy line of work (Little Richard), or had scandals of their own (Chuck Berry, Jerry Lee Lewis). The musical Bye Bye Birdie encapsulates the turning between the High-unraveling & High-crisis quite well IMO as it is set in 1958 (the movie just updates it to 1963) when Elvis was leaving. It also expresses the worries of the parents accurately as the play points out that Conrad has a shady past ("Is it true you found him in reform school?" and it questions the sincerity that Rock 'n' Roll proclaims to have with "Honestly Sincere")

Rock 'n' Roll in its original incarnation had an air of corruption, degradation, sloth, and the first step in the road to all out sin & vice--in the eyes of the parents. Payola & the departure of those rock legends only made the parents feel justified in having opposed it. However the record companies appropriated Rock 'n' Roll by then finding white "clean cut" singers to sing covers of songs or toned down songs that referred back & married Rock 'n' Roll to the jazzy/show tune-y Traditional Pop of the late 1940s & early 1950s sung by the crooners & Rat Pack, to satisfy the parents & that marked everything recorded from 1959 onward until the emergence of Folk. There's a reason that there's a "day the music died".

It's a marker of the High-unraveling for me. Consider it's questioning the tactics of racial stasis in the society with whites listening to black music. Also it's during micro-unravelings that artistic achievements that define a turning--especially in music--blossom.

~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 10-13-2011 at 05:59 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#224 at 10-13-2011 05:54 PM by LateBoomer [at joined Sep 2011 #posts 1,007]
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Quote Originally Posted by x in az View Post
I find this micro-turning idea fascinating, and wonder how it extends into the Awakening/Unraveling. So would the Awakening-Awakening then be 1969 (Summer of Love) and then perhaps end with 1972 and the Watergate trials?
Let's see. I'll go ahead and post my micro-turnings for the rest of the Millennial saeculum.

Awakening-High (1963-1966): Following Kennedy's assassination and the ensuing campus unrest and a strong uptick in the ongoing civil rights movement that began in the 1T, most of the culture outside campuses and urban areas was still pretty much stuck in the 1T. Unrest was in the air though. Betty Friedan wrote "The Feminine Mystique" in 1963 and housewives began to re-think their High era roles as mere wives and mothers. Women's fashions began to change from the sedate and fashionable Jackie Kennedy look of the late High to the more youthful Carnaby Street look of the mid 1960s. Women also began to wear pants (slacks) more often than they had. Mini skirts became the norm, as did long, straight hair. Men began to grow their short hair out into longer Beatles cuts and wear more colorful clothing. The Beatles arriving in America was the climax of the Awakening-High, and suddenly a new type of youth culture was born.

Awakening-Awakening (1967-1973). This definitely began with the Summer of Love in 1967. Campus rebelliousness and anti-Vietnam protests reached fever pitch, and protesting began to turn violent, as Boomers began to replace the more sedate Silent protesters. The hippie movement was born and music changed, becoming harder, louder, and dominated by electric guitars and lyrics of rebellion against the "establishment," free love, and drugs. Rock concerts became weekend long hippie festivals and suddenly it was okay to live together without marriage, and have sex with whoever you wanted, whenever you wanted. The antagonism between the young Boomers and their GI parents reached its peak, and Vietnam became a kind of symbol for everything the two generations couldn't stand about each other.

Awakening-Unraveling (1973-1977): The Watergate Scandal, 1973-1974 was the beginning of the end. While the hippie movement had been dying down for several years (as Boomers began to mature), there was still plenty of rebellion, only this time the movements were a bit better organized and more specific, fighting for things like women's and gay rights. More women decided to begin careers rather than marrying or having children. But Watergate put an end to any trust that might have remained in the government and in our leaders. This was a dark time in the Awakening, and people everywhere sensed the heady and exciting mood of the Awakening was soon coming to an end.

Awakening-Crisis (1977-1983). This started around 1977 with the rise of the Moral Majority and right wing Christian groups that would soon take over and define the mood of the 3T. A new type of "supply side" president, Ronald Reagan, was elected in 1980--who began the 30 year long chipping away at the government and its regulations and gave tax cuts to the wealthy. The "Me Decade" and hedonistic Disco era was now underway, with Boomers and many Silents turning inward to discover themselves through various religious cults, yoga, meditation techniques, and plain old fundamentalist Christianity. Cocaine, not pot, became the drug of choice. Movies like Kramer vs. Kramer were pre-3T cautionary tales that showed how spouses leaving their families could hurt their children. The abandoning wife and mother played by Meryl Streep in that movie was portrayed as quite self-centered and the little Nintendo wave Xer boy portrayed as an absolute angel. Other movies had similar themes, showing how parental selfishness hurt their children--Ordinary People is another movie of this type, showing a cold hearted Silent mother emotionally and eventually literally abandoning her befuddled husband and deeply hurting her Joneser son.

I'll post the 3T and 4T micro-turnings in a bit.
Last edited by LateBoomer; 10-13-2011 at 06:00 PM.
"My truck has 170,000 miles on it and the MPG is so bad that every time I start it, the ghost of an Indian appears in the passenger seat and cries."
--John Cheese



*INFJ Joneser*
Please join my Facebook group, Fans of the Fourth Turning.







Post#225 at 10-13-2011 06:04 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by LateBoomer View Post
Let's see. I'll go ahead and post my micro-turnings for the rest of the Millennial saeculum.

Awakening-High (1963-1966): Following Kennedy's assassination and the ensuing campus unrest and a strong uptick in the ongoing civil rights movement that began in the 1T, most of the culture outside campuses and urban areas was still pretty much stuck in the 1T. Unrest was in the air though. Betty Friedan wrote "The Feminine Mystique" in 1963 and housewives began to re-think their High era roles as mere wives and mothers. Women's fashions began to change from the sedate and fashionable Jackie Kennedy look of the late High to the more youthful Carnaby Street look of the mid 1960s. Women also began to wear pants (slacks) more often than they had. Mini skirts became the norm, as did long, straight hair. Men began to grow their short hair out into longer Beatles cuts and wear more colorful clothing. The Beatles arriving in America was the climax of the Awakening-High, and suddenly a new type of youth culture was born.

Awakening-Awakening (1967-1973). This definitely began with the Summer of Love in 1967. Campus rebelliousness and anti-Vietnam protests reached fever pitch, and protesting began to turn violent, as Boomers began to replace the more sedate Silent protesters. The hippie movement was born and music changed, becoming harder, louder, and dominated by electric guitars and lyrics of rebellion against the "establishment," free love, and drugs. Rock concerts became weekend long hippie festivals and suddenly it was okay to live together without marriage, and have sex with whoever you wanted, whenever you wanted. The antagonism between the young Boomers and their GI parents reached its peak, and Vietnam became a kind of symbol for everything the two generations couldn't stand about each other.

Awakening-Unraveling (1973-1977): The Watergate Scandal, 1973-1974 was the beginning of the end. While the hippie movement had been dying down for several years (as Boomers began to mature), there was still plenty of rebellion, only this time the movements were a bit better organized and more specific, fighting for things like women's and gay rights. More women decided to begin careers rather than marrying or having children. But Watergate put an end to any trust that might have remained in the government and in our leaders. This was a dark time in the Awakening, and people everywhere sensed the heady and exciting mood of the Awakening was soon coming to an end.

Awakening-Crisis (1977-1983). This started around 1977 with the rise of the Moral Majority and right wing Christian groups that would soon take over and define the mood of the 3T. A new type of "supply side" president, Ronald Reagan, was elected in 1980--who began the 30 year long chipping away at the government and its regulations and gave tax cuts to the wealthy. The "Me Decade" and hedonistic Disco era was now underway, with Boomers and many Silents turning inward to discover themselves through various religious cults, yoga, meditation techniques, and plain old fundamentalist Christianity. Cocaine, not pot, became the drug of choice. Movies like Kramer vs. Kramer were pre-3T cautionary tales that showed how spouses leaving their families could hurt their children. The abandoning wife and mother played by Meryl Streep in that movie was portrayed as quite self-centered and the little Nintendo wave Xer boy portrayed as an absolute angel. Other movies had similar themes, showing how parental selfishness hurt their children--Ordinary People is another movie of this type, showing a cold hearted Silent mother emotionally and eventually literally abandoning her befuddled husband and deeply hurting her Joneser son.

I'll post the 3T and 4T micro-turnings in a bit.
You want mine? I see the same things but the years are a little fuzzy.

1945 - 1950
1950 - 1955
1955 - 1959
1959 - 1963

1963 - 1967
1967 - 1973
1973 - 1978
1978 - 1984

1984 - 1988
1988 - 1995
1995 - 2000
2000 - 2005

2005 - 2010
2010 - ???? (most likely 2014/2015)

From there forward it's just speculation.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
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