I lost track, why is '84 the start of the unraveling? Seems like as soon as Reagan was elected in '80 there was an immediate change in mood. I think it was within minutes of his innaguaration the hostages were released.
To those who remember this, didn't it feel like a micro high?
I know S&H date it as '84 too, but can't recall why.
1993 cohorts I've met & interacted with are the most happy-go-lucky & upbeat kids out there. Nothing seems to dampen their spirits for too long & cynicism doesn't despair them as much. They're also a bundle full of non-stop energy... but then again so are most 17/18 year olds.Originally Posted by 92man
They're freaking weird man...
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 10-15-2011 at 01:52 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
92man, I agree with Chas' comment and for some reason, "Shiny" is the only word that comes to mind.
It's not just because you guys are young because "shiny" doesn't fit some of the kids born in the 2000s, IMO.
"Silent" really does fit them.
Last edited by millennialX; 10-15-2011 at 09:13 AM.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Oh brother! Not again!<face palm>
Prince: shaking head in "semi"-disbelief.
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."
Not really. I thought the Iranians did that as a personal slap against Carter. Which could be a correct interpretation or not, but that's how it seemed at the time. Everyone was also talking about whether Reagan would die in office because of that curse, and it wasn't much of a surprise when he got shot.
Early 80s definitely different from late 80s, in my opinion. I think Iran/Contra had a lot to do with that.
Another poster mentioned a change in tone towards the USSR. during his first term Regan was going on about the "Evil Empire" and asking for more defense spending. 4 years later he was buddy-buddy with Gorby.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
Agreed for all the reasons you've mentioned, that & the Market turn around in 1982/1983 helped a lot. Also if we cut off the Awakening at 1980, we loose the largest protest of the Awakening, the Anti-Nuke protest in NYC. (video leads to info & footage of the protest)
It's similar IMO to the Roosevelt years of 1901 - 1908. In 1902 we had a large Coal Strike because miners wanted higher pay, shorter work hours, and to have their union recognized--it resulted that they got everything but having their union recognized (the coal barons got higher prices for coal thanks to the strike causing the large supply of coal to shrink & increase demand. Strikes and protests had occurred throughout the Awakening demanding better work hours, safety regulations, etc. However by 1907 when a coal explosion occurs, there aren't any protests, just regulations that are passed. In 1908 when the Rhoads Opera House burned down in a small Pennsylvania town with the people locked inside of it (because the owners didn't want anyone sneaking into the Opera House without paying), there were no strikes or protests demanding safety regulations--the matter was brought to court were the regulations passed. The theme of this Awakening/Unraveling Cusp is one where it's a system that goes working for the Barons to a system that is seen as working for everyday Americans. Roosevelt's Square Deal & the 1904 St. Louis World's Fair spark optimism in a better tomorrow & a strong sense of patriotism into the national mood. Evelyn Nesbit made headlines in 1906 when her husband committed the "Crime of the Century" (a link to the musical number from Ragtime which shows how the trial was a spectacle) when he shot a wealthy man to whom she had been a showgirl for. Roosevelt cuspers like Evelyn Nesbit took on the "Gibson Girl" look. In that same year Emma Goldman, the anarchist, founds the anarchist journal "Mother Earth". Throughout this time of course you had Women's Suffrage protests. And then Ford released his Model T in 1908 & a "round-the-world" motorcar race begins. The shift between the Awakening & Unraveling is a long slow & gradual transition & IMO it's that way in almost every saeculum. Most of all what defines this era is an unbridled optimism and hubris--thinking that man through technology might one day out-do God. The mood comes to a crashing halt with the sinking of the Titanic in 1912, which brought to question the optimism & hubris that had defined everything up until that point.
~Chas'88
P.S. If Millies (or any future younger generations that visit this site) are scratching their heads at what Rani means by "curse" here's the info on the Curse of Tippecanoe.
All links take you to either YouTube videos or Wikipedia articles where you can learn more if people are interested.
Last edited by Chas'88; 10-15-2011 at 12:48 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
The Authors seemed to feel that the Awakening ended not with a bang, but a whimper...that it sort of just petered out during Reagan's reelection campaign. Others on this board, however, have in the past questioned whether this is true, myself included. You are correct that the public mood seemed to shift in the months following Reagan's initial election. The election itself, the assassination of 2T icon John Lennon in December, the release of the Tehran hostages on Inauguration Day, and finally the attempt on the President's life...all seemed to usher in a new era. But was Reagan '80 the Catalyst for Unravelling...or merely the beginning of what Chas would call the Awakening micro-Crisis, the beginning of the end of the 2T? I am still unsure. However, consider that Awakening-style protests, in particular the Nuclear Freeze movement, continued until the mid-'80s. And what we now consider '80s-style pop music...overproduced and oversynthesized, with banging-on-garbagecans percussion...didn't become dominant on the radio until about '83 or 4. If one doesn't buy the notion of Turnings ending in an undramatic fashion, one could even point to a later "bang" that could certainly fill the bill: the explosion of Challenger in January 1986. So there is still lots of room for debate.
Last edited by Roadbldr '59; 10-15-2011 at 12:23 PM.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King
I'm glad to see so many beginning to build on Chas' theory. LateBoomer, you've done a great job here. I've believed for some time that 2005 marked the beginning of the 4T, mostly because Americans truly began to realize their government was incompetent with Katrina, but you should also look back at the housing bubble -- it may have 'crashed' in the minds of the MSM in 2008, but take a look at what was going on in 2005. Prince has great insight here, as well -- perhaps he will share.
"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." —Albert Einstein
"The road to perdition has ever been accompanied by lip service to an ideal." —Albert Einstein
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction.” —Albert Einstein
Ah, my wonder-twin!
OK. Here's a couple of Thoughts:
An Inconvenient Truth(2004)
Fahreheit 9/11(2006)
What effect did these have on the US Electorate?
Maybe this:2006 Election
Note: I don't look for Catalysts; Instead I look for Clusters. There appears to be a Cluster around 2005, IMO.
Prince
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."
V for Vendetta's ending screamed--quite loudly I might add--"Go out & vote" in 2006 when the film premiered.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
The makers and fans of this movie are so gonna get it in the next 1T.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
That would be the majority of Millennials.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
That's what I'm worried about.
You know it's funny how the first step was targeting my cohorts, by waking us up and bringing us out of the Matrix, in '99.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
It apparently didn't work too well as you guys needed a second wake-up slap. But then again gratuitous slow-mo backwards leaning freeze frame special effects do have a tendency to distract your cohorts. It's like someone put a shiny object in front of you & dangled it on a string--"oo, a shiny object!"That's what I'm worried about.
You know it's funny how the first step was targeting my cohorts, by waking us up and bringing us out of the Matrix, in '99.
Such is a 3Ting response... the message was forward thinking, the response purely 3Ting.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 11-01-2011 at 09:31 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Ain't that the truth. But come on now...we had Keanu when you guys had Natalie Portman. And let the record show that she was born 4 days after me in '81. So all we needed was the right cohort to play the protagonist and understand the material.
But yea...that razzle dazzle/ 3T block buster mess was cool.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Not really Portman is portraying an Artist archetype beginning an Awakening, according to the film's time line. Although you do have a point with Keanu, people probably showed up expecting him to talk like this.
Look at the spectacle & pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...But yea...that razzle dazzle/ 3T block buster mess was cool.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
That's right. It's been years since I've seen the film and I was in a crowded free screening, sitting in the front row looking straight up. Was not a fun experience.Not really Portman is portraying an Artist archetype beginning an Awakening, according to the film's time line. Although you do have a point with Keanu, people probably showed up expecting him to talk like this.
Look at the spectacle & pay no attention to that man behind the curtain...
~Chas'88
And I remember watching Oz every year. Definitely looking at the source material with a different eye now.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
For years, The Wizard of Oz was shown on TV every February. I always loved that movie, and my kids loved it growing up. It's a movie that has aged very well. My favorite character was (and still is) The Cowardly Lion, who cracks me up to this day. Wonderful, timeless movie, filmmaking at its best, and what a beauty young Judy Garland was. The Wicked Witch used to give me nightmares!
"My truck has 170,000 miles on it and the MPG is so bad that every time I start it, the ghost of an Indian appears in the passenger seat and cries."
--John Cheese
*INFJ Joneser*
Please join my Facebook group, Fans of the Fourth Turning.
In 1989, Boomers hadn't been afraid of that for years (and no one else either for that matter). The acute sense of looming WWIII and nuclear confrontation that was typical of the Unraveling High subsided when Gorbachev, who had become known as a new type of Russian leader, seemed to have consolidated his power and things like Chernobyl (April 1986) exposed how socially and technically inept Marxist-Leninism really was.
A better date to start the Unraveling-Awakening would be 1987. It was actually a financial meltdown in that year ("Black Monday") that ended the uncomplicated hero status hitherto enjoyed by the yuppie, turning the financial lions from trendy icons into criminals in a heartbeat (the movie Wall Street reflects this), 60's-70's retro replaced 50's retro as the main retro trend and glamour made for TV drama and champagne soaps like Dallas, Dynasty and Falcon Crest fell out of favour. As the Communist world opened up to the west, Gorbachev momentarily eclipsing both Reagan and Thatcher in popularity during his visits to the US, there was no longer a question if Communism was either to fall or transform itself utterly but when and how the transformation would take place. Opening up the deadlock in that regard seemed to open up a lot of other deadlocks as well. There was a smell of Spring in the air and a sudden wish to let go of the outgrown mock 50's Cold War environment, props and aesthetics that dominated the early and mid 80's (even though I personally preferred the Unraveling High if I'm to be honest).
1989 was the pinnacle of that positive Awakening development, not its starting point, and by this time the yuppie was so outdated he could only evoke feelings of embarrassment.
Last edited by Tussilago; 11-02-2011 at 05:00 AM.
INTP 1970 Core X
A way to think about micro turnings that I would like to share, at least during an Unraveling, evokes the Marxian quote that "history always repeats itself, first as a tragedy, second as a farce". Thus, the Unraveling-High micro turning was a sort of mockery of the 50's, complete with threatening nuclear disaster, anti-Communist paranoia, idealizing family values and reborn morals, a "second Cold War", bland pop culture, bright pastel colors and doo wop.
The Unraveling-Awakening was in similar ways a mockery of 60's to early 70's idealisms turned into fashion statements, a ridiculous Paisley patterned let's redo Woodstock mentality and a shallow liking for The Doors.
Worst of all becomes of course the Unraveling-Unraveling: an era of unmitigated cultural malaise that didn't even have the decadent sexiness of late 70's narcissist disco culture. Just grey. Just the "ironic" 90's. *Shivers*.
Last edited by Tussilago; 11-02-2011 at 08:01 AM.
INTP 1970 Core X
This is really perceptive. The Unraveling-High really was like a mockery of the 1950s, and the Unraveling-Awakening was a mockery of the 1960s. Unravelings in general are all about irony--that's one of the things that defines them. We are all so jaded by then. There was an awful lot of 1970s irony in the 1990s.
"My truck has 170,000 miles on it and the MPG is so bad that every time I start it, the ghost of an Indian appears in the passenger seat and cries."
--John Cheese
*INFJ Joneser*
Please join my Facebook group, Fans of the Fourth Turning.
I wrote this in a thread a long time ago. I need to update it more:
1920's, 1930's, 1940's, 1950's (Some Like it Hot)
1930's, 1940's, 1950's, 1960's (Bonnie and Clyde, They Shoot Horses Don't they)
1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's (Tora Tora Tora)
1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's (Back to the Future)
1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's (Woodstock's comeback, Forest Gump, I can think of more but am lazy)
1970's, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's (that 70’s show, the whole trucker hat/ Charlie's Angels thing. A lot of indie films had an intensional 70's vibe)
1980's, 1990's, 2000's, 2010's. (Just listen to pop music, cartoons like Thundercats making a comeback, )
1990's, 2000's, 2010's, 2020's
2000's, 2010's, 2020's, 2030's
The italicized decades is when the seeds for nostalgia is planted.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
I couldn't resist...
1920's, 1930's, 1940's, 1950's (Some Like it Hot) The Boyfriend, Gentlemen Prefer Blondes
The 1950's also had a lot of 1910's nostalgia: East of Eden, The Music Man, Pollyanna, Lady & the Tramp
1930's, 1940's, 1950's, 1960's (Bonnie and Clyde, They Shoot Horses Don't they)
The 1960's also had a lot of 1920's nostalgia: Thoroughly Modern Millie, Splendor in the Grass (Thoroughly Modern Millie is the ultimate nostalgia piece as it uses quite a few period songs like Baby Face & Poor Butterfly)
Also had some 1890's/1900's nostalgia: Hello Dolly!, Tenderloin, The Great Race
1940's, 1950's, 1960's, 1970's (Tora Tora Tora) The Way We Were, The Godfather, Wise Blood
The 1970's also had a lot of 1930's nostalgia: Paper Moon, Young Frankenstein, Nickelodeon, The Glass Menagerie, Death on the Nile, And Then there were None, Murder by Death, Cabaret
1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's (Back to the Future) Cry Baby, Clue
There also was a healthy dose of the 1940's in the 1980's: the "George Dixon" holodeck trips that Captain Picard took; the fashion of the Yuppies took their inspiration from the 1940's, TV's War & Remembrance, Dick Tracy, Zoot Suit, Miss Marple (Joan Dixon), Who Framed Rodger Rabbit?, Five Guys Named Moe, Ain't Misbehavin'
1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's (Woodstock's comeback, Forest Gump, I can think of more but am lazy)
1970's, 1980's, 1990's, 2000's (that 70’s show, the whole trucker hat/ Charlie's Angels thing. A lot of indie films had an intensional 70's vibe)
The 2000's also remade some 1970's films & shows like: Amityville Horror, The Omen, & The Stepford Wives, Dukes of Hazzard
1980's, 1990's, 2000's, 2010's. (Just listen to pop music, cartoons like Thundercats making a comeback)
Easy A makes many 1980's Teen movie references & builds upon this nostalgia
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 11-02-2011 at 10:52 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
Feel free! I was too lazy to update! I think I wrote it during your hiatus and wondered if you would see it.
Last edited by millennialX; 11-23-2011 at 08:23 PM.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
