Originally Posted by Odin

*hears hordes of angry Boomers go after Brower with torches and pitchforks*

That is awesome hahahahhaa!

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/...nge-your-life/

Wow! It appears my 'services' are badly needed here!


Prince

PS:

Now, where to begin?
(there's just so many choices! )

Let's start here:

Originally Posted by Odin

*hears hordes of angry Boomers go after Brower with torches and pitchforks*

More like hordes of zombie Civic-GIs rising from their graves.
TLWS was shit-canned during the 'rural purge' 'cuz the networks
started chasing after the young Prophet-Boomers. So, stuff like
TLWS got replaced by the incredibly talented Bobby Sherman.


Prince

PS: I'm gonna go ahead and use my 'get outta jail free'-card here
'cuz I had absolutely no control over my childhood environment.
(IOW, I seriously love that shit! )

[QUOTE=princeofcats67;544314]Now, where to begin?
(there's just so many choices! )

There's only 1 choice.

Eric the Green.

Let's start here:

Prince

PS: I'm gonna go ahead and use my 'get outta jail free'-card here
'cuz I had absolutely no control over my childhood environment.
(IOW, I seriously love that shit! )

Same here.


And

this

And

this!

psychedelia for the kiddies and all. I have 3 get out of jail free cards and you have just 1. Sorry.

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Wow! It appears my 'services' are badly needed here!


Prince

PS:

So I see. Yes, Eric needs to be beknighted many, many times.
Oh, I see The King is channeling the 3 Stooges!

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

There's only 1 choice.

Eric the Green.

Well ... we'll just have to see if he starts spouting that 'the right dreams'-crap like he did before
(and also stops pretending that he understands a damn thing about Bob Dylan. )

Originally Posted by Rags

Same here.


And

this

And

this!

psychedelia for the kiddies and all. I have 3 get out of jail free cards and you have just 1. Sorry.

No way, Brother-man. My 'get outta jail free'-card covers all that 70s stuff.
(btw, I love the Krofft-stuff and wouldn't trade growing-up w/it for the world).

But, that stuff really belongs to Jones-Cusp and Gen X.
(I doubt anyone older was diggin' it at the time.)


Prince

PS: Man, those shows had some seriously cool theme songs(eg: Dr. Shrinker!)
(Plus, I think I can safely say that a bunch of those female characters were my
first 'crushes'. Well, and Marie Osmond, of course! )

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

<snipped vid>

So I see. Yes, Eric needs to be beknighted many, many times.
Oh, I see The King is channeling the 3 Stooges!

<chuckle!>

I figured you might remember that one.


Prince

PS: I'm currently baking the cake in preparation! !

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Now, where to begin?
(there's just so many choices! )

Let's start here:



More like hordes of zombie Civic-GIs rising from their graves.
TLWS was shit-canned during the 'rural purge' 'cuz the networks
started chasing after the young Prophet-Boomers. So, stuff like
TLWS got replaced by the incredibly talented Bobby Sherman.


Prince

PS: I'm gonna go ahead and use my 'get outta jail free'-card here
'cuz I had absolutely no control over my childhood environment.
(IOW, I seriously love that shit! )

Oh my gods. Bobby Fricken Sherman. Harkens back to 7th grade and I hated him then, too. You just gave me the willies.

But what about this?

Originally Posted by annla899

Oh my gods. Bobby Fricken Sherman. Harkens back to 7th grade and I hated him then, too. You just gave me the willies.

You're welcome, Ann!

BTW, my first best friend was the girl next door named Diana('64). So, I got exposed
to all that Late Wave Boomer/Jones Cusp-stuff. And like I said, I can't help but love it
(even if it is pretty much just a childhood nostalgia-thingy). IOW, she ruined me!


Prince

PS:

Originally Posted by annla899

But what about this?
< snipped vid>

Yup. Stuff!

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Hmm. What happens if someone born in 1956 says to a mixed-gender group of people -- hey, you guys, anyone want to go out"? Am I being incorrect, although if someone 5 years younger says it, it's okay?

I just go with y'all. Gender neutral. Always was, always will

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Thus the piano recordings of Liberace are considered rubbish.

-- with Liberace it was about the clothes. He was the Elton of his day (ok Sir Elton did write some pretty good songs. But Liberace? Put him in normal clothes & lose the candleabra & you got nuthin)

Lawrence Welk, who can make just about any two pieces of music sound alike with his gimmicky arrangements, is awful.

-- my Mom loved that show (@ Odin- whoever said GIs rising from their graves to chase PBr with pitchforks is correct. Boomers hated that show) anyhow back to Mom: she was a fairly good pianist with a nice lite touch. So I could never understand why she liked Joann Castle. The woman had lead fingers. Pounded those keys. As for me- now I was a kid, mind you, as in pre-tween- I thought the Lennon Sisters were John's actual sisters. Could not for the life of me figure out how John could be making such cool music & songs & those chicks sucked out loud. Finally decided it had to be Paul's doing

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

One needs not be an artist to recognize Kitsch for what it is.

I would agree. There is some truly awful "art" out there. That being said, I'll take a Kinkade any day over a Picasso that is unintelligible. I'm sure you'd call Kinkade kitsch, where I'd find Picasso's unintelligible cubist trash just be the scrawls of a lunatic.

I'm reasonably liberal on what I consider valid (primitive art can be powerful and modern art can be expressive). Incompetence of execution degrades any artistic effort. But so does blatant distortion for pointless effect (or is affect more apt?)

That is your prerogative. I happen to also have some art that one would consider primitive. Well the BF does more than me. He bought some Jamaican tchotchkes (really can't think of a better word to use to describe them). I would consider them to be a type of folk art, as they supposedly are idols for improving male potency. They have a very African flavor. Honestly I think he got them because they are slightly perverse.

Thus the piano recordings of Liberace are considered rubbish.

I would contend that Liberace's music was rather good, considering he mostly played the classics. What was trashy was his over the top manner, but that was his gimmick to sell records.

The late Floyd Cramer, with his excess grace notes on pop standards, tires me quickly. Lawrence Welk, who can make just about any two pieces of music sound alike with his gimmicky arrangements, is awful.

Cramer, and Welk were the last of the big band types, and by they time they came around to it, it was played out. That being said, I could listen to Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller all damn day.

Have you ever heard the expression "Red sky at night, sailor's delight; red sky by morning, sailors take warning"? Small concentrations of nitrogen dioxide (as in the typical sky around Greater Los Angeles) can add a reddish cast to a sky. I have seen some very red skies, and not the consequence of pollution.

I have heard of the saying. That wasn't the point. Generally when one says that someone would argue the point of the sky being blue, what they mean is that someone is arguing against the clearly obvious. Are you sure you really are as literate as you claim to be? You seem to have problems understanding metaphor. Since we've already determined you don't speak a language other than English, you can't use English as a second language as an excuse.

Did anyone see Michael Douglas play Liberace on HBO? That was a wild one.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

No, I don't think she was giving suggestions lol. I think because the topic was raised she just mentioned it because it was a few boomers who mentioned it but wont do anything about it. That is what i take from her message anyway. Of course they won't but they thought the world would be better without them. Something I was shocked to read from a few boomers themselves. I was none too happy.

If any Boomers out there are talking about the world being better without Boomers, I'm sure they mean those other, evil Boomers who disagree with their own views. They couldn't possibly be talking about their own perfect selves. That's why I don't think we need to worry about a suicide epidemic.

Originally Posted by marypoza

-- with Liberace it was about the clothes. He was the Elton of his day (ok Sir Elton did write some pretty good songs. But Liberace? Put him in normal clothes & lose the candleabra & you got nuthin)

Artur Rubinstein, Rudolf Serkin, and Vladimir Horowitz did not need the candelabra or wacky clothes. Elton John is a composer; he seems to have derived some elements of his style from classical music, but he makes no pretense of his music being classical music.

Liberace might follow an eccentric rendition of Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata (which has cliché status) with "Chopsticks" or the Notre Dame Fight Song. Genuine fans of classical music do not like that; they believe that flamboyant treatment of something near perfection is inappropriate. (Of course, great musicians do not simply play the notes. Some assertion of personality expected from a soloist or a participant in a chamber ensemble).

-- my Mom loved that show (@ Odin- whoever said GIs rising from their graves to chase PBr with pitchforks is correct. Boomers hated that show) anyhow back to Mom: she was a fairly good pianist with a nice lite touch. So I could never understand why she liked Joann Castle. The woman had lead fingers. Pounded those keys. As for me- now I was a kid, mind you, as in pre-tween- I thought the Lennon Sisters were John's actual sisters. Could not for the life of me figure out how John could be making such cool music & songs & those chicks sucked out loud. Finally decided it had to be Paul's doing

It was more showmanship than music, probably reflecting the tastes of people who, GI Generation, still had cultural ties to the rural Midwest. Lawrence Welk was OK on Big Band music -- which he treated with some reverence. The rest? Not so much. Then again, we need remember that the world in which the GI Generation grew up was very different from our world.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

I would agree. There is some truly awful "art" out there. That being said, I'll take a Kinkade any day over a Picasso that is unintelligible. I'm sure you'd call Kinkade kitsch, where I'd find Picasso's unintelligible cubist trash just be the scrawls of a lunatic.

The 'fault' with Thomas Kinkade is that he marketed his art to people generally not known as devotees of art -- like fundamentalist Christians, to whom he sold his work in astronomical quantities as prints. So he was excessive with lighting... I consider it a tolerable distortion. Want photographic realism? Get your camera, and not paintbrushes.

I would contend that Liberace's music was rather good, considering he mostly played the classics. What was trashy was his over the top manner, but that was his gimmick to sell records.

Arthur Schnabel, Artur Rubinstein, Wilhelm Kempff, Rudolf Serkin, and Vladimir Horowitz were much more satisfying, thank you.

Cramer, and Welk were the last of the big band types, and by they time they came around to it, it was played out. That being said, I could listen to Benny Goodman and Glenn Miller all damn day.

Benny Goodman was classically-trained and had great musical talent -- so much that he made a recording with the composer-pianist Bela Bartok. The best of the Big Band figures exuded wit and musical competence, and offered their music without pandering to mass taste. Lawrence Welk continued the tradition of Your Hit Parade, and kept adding some standards as time passed. But on the other side was pandering to what he saw as mass tastes. Eventually those tastes changed, and shrinking audiences of desirable viewers* in a time of three commercial networks got him off the air.

I have heard of the saying. That wasn't the point. Generally when one says that someone would argue the point of the sky being blue, what they mean is that someone is arguing against the clearly obvious. Are you sure you really are as literate as you claim to be? You seem to have problems understanding metaphor. Since we've already determined you don't speak a language other than English, you can't use English as a second language as an excuse.

I recognized the metaphor. It was just too obvious.

I could have as easily discussed the Martian sky, which is pink.

*Ages 18-49, people who are seen as likely to respond to advertising. Under 18 they have too little disposable income to be attractive to prime-time network advertising. 50 or over they generally have their spending patterns set or are so capricious that advertising doesn't influence their spending habits. Now that Boomers are completely out of the desirable age groups for mass advertising, broadcast TV no longer cares about them.

Originally Posted by mockingbirdstl

I am not a "he." And it was Ragnarok that mentioned the de-industrialization of England. (Not that he was wrong about that.) Are you conflating the two of us?

I guess so, or I don't want to go back and verify your statement right now.

I find beauty in the "ugliness" of punk. Punk is raw, authentic expression. A lot of people found expressionist art to be ugly, too. But to me, punk, in all its primitive discordance and vulgarity is more beautiful than any of the syrupy pop music that you favor.

We disagree on that, then; probably. That's the way it goes. Ms. Tara cannot tolerate any deviation from her views. But she will find the effort to enforce conformity to her relativist, materialist ideas will get very tiring. And she is already tiring of it. Not to mention insulting those who disagree with her. That can get tiring too. I assume you can tolerate disagreement better than she, Ms. mockingbird.

Punk rock mostly can't be compared to the best of expressionism. But some of modern art is indeed ugly, and not good art; as I said, core punk, heavy metal, grunge and rap as well as much of commercial pop are nihilistic and deliberately ugly, and in this they take after the worst of modern art, in purpose and effect. I don't find it authentic at all. As I said, it is their choice how to express their "frustration." It can be done beautifully as well as not. Beauty is truth. Some modern artists and cynical rock and pop artists don't believe this; I disagree, and I celebrate and share beauty when I find it.

But actually, sometimes I like punk too; it's not entirely opposite to my tastes, as I've said before. It can be good, usually when it gets beyond the hard core styles. Some good music came out of that style. But of course, the hard core punk fans will call it inauthentic. So, that's our choice.

And my critique is not necessarily a put down of Generation X. Some Xers such as Adam Levine and Maroon 5, and Pharrell Williams, are now going beyond the 3T style of deliberate, ugly nihilism as an expression of frustration and cynicism, to produce songs of great beauty again. That the message is positive helps too. Not that I favor only positive messages, but it's a shift away from unrelieved cynicism and anger. Many critics have noticed this shift now that the fourth turning has begun. Today's "syrupy" pop that you find less beautiful than core punk rock, I find more beautiful, sometimes, because melody, harmony, rhythm, vocal expression, the elements of actual music, are coming back into it, and it's also more substantial in some cases than the bland, boring and perverse American pop of the 25 years before 2010, not to mention the deliberately ugly rock and rap styles. Unless I'm mistaken, didn't you yourself refer me to Pharrell's "Happy" song? Or was that someone else? And I posted his "Freedom" song in the great music of the 4T thread. I don't think anyone here noticed, as usual.

And as I've pointed out many times, if you go out on the fringes: beyond America, and into folk and electronic music, etc., some great things were done in those 25 years, by Xers and others. There was just much less good music within the mainstream pop culture than in previous periods. And, there were some good songs even there; just not as good, and not as much as before. And the 4T pop is only somewhat better, because much of mainstream American commercial pop is likely to be bad even in the best of periods.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

There's only 1 choice.

Eric the Green.

psychedelia for the kiddies and all. I have 3 get out of jail free cards and you have just 1. Sorry.

I never did like banana splits! Or that crap. Nor Bobby Sherman. Boomers should take up their pitchforks, and chase out all the money changers from the temple of music.

Yeah, let's have the right dreams; my dreams!

"You can be in my dream, if I can be in yours" -- Bob Dylan.

Yes, I do understand him. It's always easy to understand great music. IF you have the ears to hear it.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

Oh come on. You and pbrower could collaborate on an inspiring, spiritual folk song about dropping bombs on the Infernal State.

That wouldn't get the bombs dropping either.

Since I am not fully convinced myself that dropping bombs is a good idea, it might not be a very compelling song anyway. A good song comes about through real conviction.

Originally Posted by nihilist moron

If any Boomers out there are talking about the world being better without Boomers, I'm sure they mean those other, evil Boomers who disagree with their own views. They couldn't possibly be talking about their own perfect selves. That's why I don't think we need to worry about a suicide epidemic.

Yes that is probably what they meant

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Punk rock mostly can't be compared to the best of expressionism. But some of modern art is indeed ugly, and not good art; as I said, core punk, heavy metal, grunge and rap as well as much of commercial pop are nihilistic and deliberately ugly, and in this they take after the worst of modern art, in purpose and effect. I don't find it authentic at all. As I said, it is their choice how to express their "frustration." It can be done beautifully as well as not. Beauty is truth. Some modern artists and cynical rock and pop artists don't believe this; I disagree, and I celebrate and share beauty when I find it.

We are approaching a time analogous to the late 1930s when art, theater, and music went omnibus; such implies that the work must appeal to multiple levels of aesthetics. Expressions of angst that few but an artist and his hangers-on can appreciate will just not fit the mood. I think of much of the work of Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart in his day (a Crisis when he was in his late twenties and thirties) and Franz Josef Haydn in his late symphonies and string quartets. Such music is extremely good and accessible today. Big Band music has many of the same qualities -- meat without raunchiness. Think also of the Golden Age of American Cinema centering on the year 1939 -- the whole extended family from small children to the elderly could watch.

But actually, sometimes I like punk too; it's not entirely opposite to my tastes, as I've said before. It can be good, usually when it gets beyond the hard core styles. Some good music came out of that style. But of course, the hard core punk fans will call it inauthentic. So, that's our choice.

The angry, alienated music of the 3T will go into the clutter of the attic and be abandoned and forgotten.

And my critique is not necessarily a put down of Generation X. Some Xers such as Adam Levine and Maroon 5, and Pharrell Williams, are now going beyond the 3T style of deliberate, ugly nihilism as an expression of frustration and cynicism, to produce songs of great beauty again. That the message is positive helps too. Not that I favor only positive messages, but it's a shift away from unrelieved cynicism and anger. Many critics have noticed this shift now that the fourth turning has begun. Today's "syrupy" pop that you find less beautiful than core punk rock, I find more beautiful, sometimes, because melody, harmony, rhythm, vocal expression, the elements of actual music, are coming back into it, and it's also more substantial in some cases than the bland, boring and perverse American pop of the 25 years before 2010, not to mention the deliberately ugly rock and rap styles. Unless I'm mistaken, didn't you yourself refer me to Pharrell's "Happy" song? Or was that someone else? And I posted his "Freedom" song in the great music of the 4T thread. I don't think anyone here noticed, as usual.

Popular culture may be headed in the right direction.

And as I've pointed out many times, if you go out on the fringes: beyond America, and into folk and electronic music, etc., some great things were done in those 25 years, by Xers and others. There was just much less good music within the mainstream pop culture than in previous periods. And, there were some good songs even there; just not as good, and not as much as before. And the 4T pop is only somewhat better, because much of mainstream American commercial pop is likely to be bad even in the best of periods.

As usual, most efforts at art, literature, and music fail.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I never did like banana splits!

I wouldn't think so. People your age weren't the target audience. I'm pretty sure you didn't like Lidsville either.

Or that crap. Nor Bobby Sherman. Boomers should take up their pitchforks, and chase out all the money changers from the temple of music.

Yeah, let's have the right dreams; my dreams!

"You can be in my dream, if I can be in yours" -- Bob Dylan.

OK, Hoodo and Witchipoo are in each others' dreams.

Yes, I do understand him. It's always easy to understand great music. IF you have the ears to hear it.

To each his own, romance and musical taste, YMMV.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

We disagree on that, then; probably. That's the way it goes. Ms. Tara cannot tolerate any deviation from her views. But she will find the effort to enforce conformity to her relativist, materialist ideas will get very tiring. And she is already tiring of it. Not to mention insulting those who disagree with her. That can get tiring too. I assume you can tolerate disagreement better than she, Ms. mockingbird.

When I read something I disagree with, especially if I disagree strongly, I say something about it. You do too, all the time. Is that being intolerant of disagreement?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Punk rock mostly can't be compared to the best of expressionism. But some of modern art is indeed ugly, and not good art; as I said, core punk, heavy metal, grunge and rap as well as much of commercial pop are nihilistic and deliberately ugly, and in this they take after the worst of modern art, in purpose and effect. I don't find it authentic at all. As I said, it is their choice how to express their "frustration." It can be done beautifully as well as not. Beauty is truth. Some modern artists and cynical rock and pop artists don't believe this; I disagree, and I celebrate and share beauty when I find it.

But actually, sometimes I like punk too; it's not entirely opposite to my tastes, as I've said before. It can be good, usually when it gets beyond the hard core styles. Some good music came out of that style. But of course, the hard core punk fans will call it inauthentic. So, that's our choice.

I was wondering what you meant by "core punk." I thought maybe you meant early punk, but you mean hard core. TBH, I don't care for most hard core either, particularly from the mid-90s onward. I don't really like punk pop, either, though...IMO punk was pretty much dead as a movement by the mid 90s--grunge killed it, or rather the commercialization of grunge. Others here will probably disagree, and others still will say it died long before. That's just my opinion. But punk rock produced a lot of great music and was a very fascinating moment in the history of popular music, there's no denying that.

While I'm expressing my opinions plainly, I have to tell you that since I've joined this forum I have listened to Justin Bieber's "Pray" several times in an attempt to hear whatever it is you hear in it. But I end up being completely mystified. It is nothing more than a rather mediocre pop song, neither offensive nor remarkable. I mean, as far as pop music goes, Michael Jackson had several songs that were much better, and he could dance too. I would put JB, as an artist, on around the same level as Debbie Gibson. Hell, DG's songs were certainly insipid and generally suck, but at least one or two of them managed to have a somewhat catchy tune https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IivGqwQvdCI. Justin Bieber's "Pray" has hardly any tune at all.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Unless I'm mistaken, didn't you yourself refer me to Pharrell's "Happy" song? Or was that someone else?

No, that must have been someone else. It is a good song, much better than JB though not better than the best of the 3T.