Originally Posted by Eric the Green

How can we make it useful? Or interpret it in such a way that it's useful? That's how I would ask it.

The sky god is a metaphor, an image. Lots of times people get confused and take the image as the reality. I don't know why that happens, except that most people are still not very evolved in their understanding. We are still a young species, only emerged from caves 10,000 years ago. That's an incredibly short time in the history of Earth. Imagine how much longer we may still be here, if we can learn to live in a sustainable and peaceful way. We have a lot to learn. If people want to think of God as our Daddy in the sky, its easier to grasp and it's easier to make it into an authority figure, which not-so-evolved people want, and which is suitable for social control.

I myself don't use the word "believe" for my relationship for God. Sheldrake used that phrase, as referring to a common saying among science believers: "I don't believe in God, I believe in science." And this belief in science instead of religion is a stage to go through, to go beyond "believing" in God and instead adopt a method supposed to be unprejudiced and non-authoritarian, verifiable by all. It frees us for a while from the oppressive and limiting tendencies of religious authority. It is a test for claims made, a test that is useful, and remains useful in many ways.

Saying religion and spirituality are man-made delusions, is a materialist position. That is your current opinion on those things. Delusions of course are not very useful, except perhaps for making horror movies. But those of us who see beyond materialism, or see more than it, don't look upon them as delusions, or imaginary. Our experience tells us that spirit is real, and that it's what we are. That is obvious to our awareness. It is useful to be more aware of this, because (as we see it) that's where wisdom and creative power are to be found. It is healing, it brings love, it brings us into harmony with life. It takes practice and discovery.

But to understand all that, would require doing more than perhaps you feel is relevant in our fourth turning times. These are not times of Awakening; so in fact in 4Ts it may take a bit of going against the grain and spirit of the times to find it. But Spirit can speak to us at any time, because it is eternal, it is our very self, and in healthy cultures it is always cultivated. Without this more-essential aspect of our being, we cannot really hope for success on the more worldly levels. The separation and dualism of our Western culture does not serve us well anymore. As Graham Hancock eloquently put it, this model is broken; it needs replacing.

Religion is man made however as i have (as i have mentioned) seen what people may call a ghost and i explained it as excess energy from a person once alive, given the fact it has not been explained in any other way yet, i would call that your "spirit." As I have seen that, i do believe in that. I am still unsure about spirituality but it sounds similar to the man made religion, aka mass human control. I agree with you when it comes to living a sustainable and peaceful way. Sustainable, may be a possibility, but peaceful? Is that in our nature? We as a species are greedy and fight over who gets the most apples.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

bloody hell it is nearly an hour long?! what is his point as i do not like something dragged on if it does not discuss something that is extremely interesting to me. I do not know his point.

Like I said, these topics can't be understood very quickly. They take time. You can go back to it later if you like. Of course, I find it all interesting so I don't mind the time. Plenty of topics to discuss, as I said before. Remember it's the second embedded one with Sheldrake, and the link below it with another scientist, that talks about the phenomena you mention. You can skip ahead; in the embedded video with Sheldrake it comes up toward the end. In the link below it, a shorter interview, it comes up earlier. If you want to google "poltergeist" you might find some articles on it.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Like I said, these topics can't be understood very quickly. They take time. You can go back to it later if you like. Of course, I find it all interesting so I don't mind the time. Plenty of topics to discuss, as I said before. Remember it's the second embedded one with Sheldrake, and the link below it with another scientist, that talks about the phenomena you mention. You can skip ahead; in the embedded video with Sheldrake it comes up toward the end. In the link below it, a shorter interview, it comes up earlier. If you want to google "poltergeist" you might find some articles on it.

Once it got going and i heard his list then i started to pay attention. I agree with i would say half of the materialistic list he has mentioned and disagree with half of the list. Surprising. I will save it and try to understand it. I will watch in bits. May be easier to understand what he is saying that way. Oh yes i have heard of poltergeists. It is supposedly psychic phenomena from psychic individuals, is that correct? I have always been interested in that subject. I guess my way to try understand what was going on around me. Even though i have heard of it i still do not understand it. Why it happens.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Like I said, these topics can't be understood very quickly. They take time. You can go back to it later if you like. Of course, I find it all interesting so I don't mind the time. Plenty of topics to discuss, as I said before. Remember it's the second embedded one with Sheldrake, and the link below it with another scientist, that talks about the phenomena you mention. You can skip ahead; in the embedded video with Sheldrake it comes up toward the end. In the link below it, a shorter interview, it comes up earlier. If you want to google "poltergeist" you might find some articles on it.

I will watch his other vid if it is about the strange things i have experienced. Should be interesting if he can explain what i cannot. Science clearly cannot and as it has been very physical i certainly cannot deny it has happened, MANY times.Thanks for the shares.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

Religion is man made however as i have (as i have mentioned) seen what people may call a ghost and i explained it as excess energy from a person once alive, given the fact it has not been explained in any other way yet, i would call that your "spirit." As I have seen that, i do believe in that. I am still unsure about spirituality but it sounds similar to the man made religion, aka mass human control. I agree with you when it comes to living a sustainable and peaceful way. Sustainable, may be a possibility, but peaceful? Is that in our nature? We as a species are greedy and fight over who gets the most apples.

lol. Or did you see 2001 A Space Odyssey, the apes fighting over sandwiches? But as I said, we are a young species. I look at our history and our short time on Earth and I think, we are just children. Let's see if that scene is on you tube. Oh, there's lots of videos of this scene! https://youtu.be/strWmj-vZ88 This classic movie is an allegory of human evolution, as the creators of the movie saw it.

Ghosts and poltergeists are one type of spirit. Others contact other kinds, or claim to. In another sense, we are spirits, and especially so when alive as bodies. When our bodies die, our spirits live on. Your "spirits" that you encountered are spirits that did not make it home.

Spirituality is what we are. We are not man-made, no. I don't agree with you there We evolved through Nature, as expressions of God, or Spirit. Spirituality connects us with what is NOT "man-made," so it's quite the reverse, as I see it, from what you said here.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

I have. I got dragged to the Metropolitan Museum of Modern Art, you know the one in NYC by an Ex. I couldn't tell the difference between a Pollock painting and a drop cloth a contractor uses to prevent messing up one's floors and etc when painting a room.

Face it, Pollock was a drunk who found a good scam and made money. That is all, there is no content to his work.

The Venn diagram for artists, drunks, and scummy people has much overlap in the combination of the three.

It makes me wonder why you'd take a photo containing a parked car. I'm assuming we aren't talking about something like the photos I have of my car. I have a thing for maroon Cadillacs.

I have many photos of parked cars. But consider the cars:

http://www.automobilemuseum.org/#home.html

I disagree. A Chopin Ballade is a masterpiece whether it is played at the philharmonic or in a brothel. It would be a masterpiece if the person playing it is in a tux and tails or is wearing silver lamay. This is just your snobbery acting up.

Silver lamay (whatever that is) or a candelabra draws undue attention from the music, and as such is at best parody and at worst a perversion. Liberace was flagrant. One sign of his quirkiness as a pianist was raising his hands far above the keyboard as a schlock gesture of virtuosity.

Originally Posted by me

There are groups reviving (Big Band music) on tour, which would be impossible if the generation which first performed and enjoyed it were the only generation capable of enjoying it. I have introduced Big Band music to Millennial youth... who liked it. They did not have to live exactly as did the now-largely-extinct GI generation to appreciate it.

Aesthetic quality crosses barriers of time and nation. As I heard on an NPR program, Beethoven doesn't have to be Japanese to be beloved in Japan. Japanese woodblock prints are very successful in Peru.

Sounds to me like you're making a straw-man here. I don't think anyone has implied that one had to have lived as the GIs did to enjoy big band. I certainly have not lived like a Lost Black Man (you know cause of desegregation and all) but I absolutely love 20s jazz and blues.

...I obviously don't have to be a contemporary of James Madison to find a Mozart piano concerto satisfying, do I?

I'm not knocking the Harlem Renaissance, by the way. Unlike most of the popular culture of the time it was genuine and did not sell out to the commerce-driven culture of the time.

I would say that for millies, big band music is mostly something they could possibly geek out over, it will not of course necessarily speak to them. That being said, it is pretty good dance music generally--and way better than EDM because you don't need psychotropic drugs to dance to it (or are they just having seizures now..I can't really tell anymore I just know it is too damn loud).

Typical Reactive/Nomad -- getting crotchety in middle age!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

lol. Or did you see 2001 A Space Odyssey, the apes fighting over sandwiches? But as I said, we are a young species. I look at our history and our short time on Earth and I think, we are just children. Let's see if that scene is on you tube. Oh, there's lots of videos of this scene! https://youtu.be/strWmj-vZ88 This classic movie is an allegory of human evolution, as the creators of the movie saw it.

Ghosts and poltergeists are one type of spirit. Others contact other kinds, or claim to. In another sense, we are spirits, and especially so when alive as bodies. When our bodies die, our spirits live on. Your "spirits" that you encountered are spirits that did not make it home.

Spirituality is what we are. We are not man-made, no. I don't agree with you there We evolved through Nature, as expressions of God, or Spirit. Spirituality connects us with what is NOT "man-made," so it's quite the reverse, as I see it, from what you said here.

I didn't say spirituality is man made. I said i am not sure about it but sounds connected to religion. If it is totally different to religion and about what we are and our spirit, given what i have actually witnessed and physically seen and felt (attacks) from one of them, yes i agree with you. Yes, i am a strange mix. In a big way, i can blame the spirits round my house who used to be very active. It all seemed to calm down when my nana passed away. I will tell you a really interesting story as to why i also believe in some psychic phenomena. My mother told my aunt she dreamed that my aunt was pregnant with a boy. Weeks later, my aunt said she was pregnant and she in fact had a boy, my cousin, Andrew. Not long after that, my mother again dreamed that my aunt would have another child and this time my aunt was actually going to just tell everyone she was pregnant but my mother had said it before she could announce it. After that, my aunt had my uncle "fixed" for want of a better word and said to my mother, if you have anymore dreams i am pregnant, dont tell me! It really was so amazing and we cannot explain it.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

No music fits the eventual judgment of the Infernal State, its leaders, and its enforcers.

OK, I just recalled two movements of a high-profile symphony.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

lol. Or did you see 2001 A Space Odyssey, the apes fighting over sandwiches? But as I said, we are a young species. I look at our history and our short time on Earth and I think, we are just children. Let's see if that scene is on you tube. Oh, there's lots of videos of this scene! https://youtu.be/strWmj-vZ88 This classic movie is an allegory of human evolution, as the creators of the movie saw it.

Ghosts and poltergeists are one type of spirit. Others contact other kinds, or claim to. In another sense, we are spirits, and especially so when alive as bodies. When our bodies die, our spirits live on. Your "spirits" that you encountered are spirits that did not make it home.

Spirituality is what we are. We are not man-made, no. I don't agree with you there We evolved through Nature, as expressions of God, or Spirit. Spirituality connects us with what is NOT "man-made," so it's quite the reverse, as I see it, from what you said here.

pmsl who knows, maybe the fact i am a scorpio has something to do with the awareness of spirits around me hahahahaha lol lol :P

Scorpio has great potential to explore the occult

Maybe you missed this link, so it's worth another post. It addresses your specific topic starting about 3 minutes in, and covers it quite thoroughly and to the point.



https://youtu.be/TGV8aQxCsCI

Remember, I posted it before you brought up your specific interest.

Scole was a specific location in which this topic was dealt with.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Scorpio has great potential to explore the occult

Maybe you missed this link, so it's worth another post. It addresses your specific topic starting about 3 minutes in, and covers it quite thoroughly and to the point.



https://youtu.be/TGV8aQxCsCI

Remember, I posted it before you brought up your specific interest.

Scole was a specific location in which this topic was dealt with.

Yeah sorry i did actually miss that vid. Did not see it. I only saw the first one. If it talks about what i have experienced i am curious about it. Sorry i am just relaxing atm with some karen carpenter songs after a hard days work. I have actually saved both vids so i remember to watch them. When i do, i will post my thoughts.

Btw this scorpio did, through wicca. Boy that was a freaky experience. I ended up in white wicca due to my strength with energy. I still have my pentegram. Freaked out a lot of christians and jev witnesses when i would wear that hahahahaha!

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

lol. Or did you see 2001 A Space Odyssey, the apes fighting over sandwiches? But as I said, we are a young species. I look at our history and our short time on Earth and I think, we are just children. Let's see if that scene is on you tube. Oh, there's lots of videos of this scene! https://youtu.be/strWmj-vZ88 This classic movie is an allegory of human evolution, as the creators of the movie saw it.

Ghosts and poltergeists are one type of spirit. Others contact other kinds, or claim to. In another sense, we are spirits, and especially so when alive as bodies. When our bodies die, our spirits live on. Your "spirits" that you encountered are spirits that did not make it home.

Spirituality is what we are. We are not man-made, no. I don't agree with you there We evolved through Nature, as expressions of God, or Spirit. Spirituality connects us with what is NOT "man-made," so it's quite the reverse, as I see it, from what you said here.

So, he is saying that the afterlife is a "thought." So, is he saying, that is what i see? They are thoughts? I dunno about that. I see them as bright as a light. Well, my first experience i saw it very clearly in the dark. As I got older i could see the figures, only lit up so i could see them when they would cross direct light. A window or a lamp. They look like a form of energy to me. Makes the same sound too and i would get the same sense of presence as i do when i know someone is near. He mainly just talked about his own experiences and then said they are like a thought. I can only consider that in the way we think about our safe space. The time we felt most at ease/comfortable. Culturally for me that would be mid/late 90s. It is what i know and the time before innocence died. It is most prominent for the elderly. They feel safest in their era as it is what they know before the world changed too much for them to understand/connect with it anymore. Ghosts would i guess be the same. They died in a certain era and they are that era on replay. Oh btw no i have not seen space odyssey. I have heard of it.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

Yes, i could have said that about lighting too but one of the lights was a wall globe. Not connected
to the mains.

Possible physical explainations from the very mundane to the not very mundane:

1. The light bulb itself is not screwed in correctly leading to poor connection
2. The wireing of the wall globe lamp is faulty
3. There is a short in the power supply to the wall globe lamp.

I could not explain how the tap was turned on. No one else was in the house and i was there awake the whole time. It flooded the kitchen, so that remains a mystery.

When you say it was turned on, I'm taking you to mean that the valve was left open through a manual control and we are not talking about a slow or even fast drip which may be caused by other factors internal to the faucet right? If the manual valve was shut off and the faucet ran anyway, it is likely either a faulty valve or detritus that is preventing the valve from being closed.

If the manual valve was open and it should have been closed, and no one else was in the house I don't have a ready explanation, but my gut tells me that "ghost" is not a rational explanation.

And then the door. Now, this could be explained by wind, BUT the bathroom door was closed and the kitchen door swings in the opposite direction. Not in the direction that wind could interact with it (push it open). This door swells due to the damp and i have to kick it open about three times for it to even open. So, how did it with no one else in the house, open then close on its own? These are the physical things that have baffled me to this day.

Since this door swells due to damp conditions it is reasonable that the door itself is not exactly plumb and is probably constructed poorly. I would suggest using a 4ft level to determine if the floor is level and if the door is plumb. This of course assumes you still reside in the dwelling where these things have occurred

All of that being said, it is my contention that a "supernatural" does not exist. Everything that happens can be explained by natural phenomena, and those things we can't explain now, we probably will be able to explain later when we understand the universe better through science.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

How can we make (a sky-god) useful? Or interpret it in such a way that it's useful? That's how I would ask it.

Make that god a God more attentive to human ethics than to luck, a Judge of people for their behavior toward others, a Fount of Mercy to those who have done nothing egregiously wrong, and the Creator and Enforcer of the laws of nature.

If the fear of Hell is all that keeps people from doing horrible things but instead accepting a workaday existence (that is, being a worker instead of a gangster despite the easy money from crime), then maybe we need that fear. On the other side, if the fear of Hell keeps one from accepting a scientific world view then maybe that fear needs be rejected. If the consolation that the surviving members of a platoon of soldiers are alive because one of the members put his body on a live grenade, sacrificing his life for those of his buddies, has gone to Heaven, then so be it.

The sky god is a metaphor, an image. Lots of times people get confused and take the image as the reality. I don't know why that happens, except that most people are still not very evolved in their understanding. We are still a young species, only emerged from caves 10,000 years ago. That's an incredibly short time in the history of Earth. Imagine how much longer we may still be here, if we can learn to live in a sustainable and peaceful way. We have a lot to learn. If people want to think of God as our Daddy in the sky, its easier to grasp and it's easier to make it into an authority figure, which not-so-evolved people want, and which is suitable for social control.

For good reason the ancient Hebrews prohibited any attempt to replicate their God in any form. People would have otherwise revered the image instead of seeking to understand Him and His commandments. Maybe any attempts to depict Him would have resulted in conflicting images of Him and ultimately a return to polytheism.

I myself don't use the word "believe" for my relationship with God. Sheldrake used that phrase, as referring to a common saying among science believers: "I don't believe in God, I believe in science." And this belief in science instead of religion is a stage to go through, to go beyond "believing" in God and instead adopt a method supposed to be unprejudiced and non-authoritarian, verifiable by all. It frees us for a while from the oppressive and limiting tendencies of religious authority. It is a test for claims made, a test that is useful, and remains useful in many ways.

But even Science implies power, however subtle, far beyond us -- like some of the rigid rules of mathematics, physics, and the dialectic. Does one define that as God?

Saying religion and spirituality are man-made delusions, is a materialist position. That is your current opinion on those things. Delusions of course are not very useful, except perhaps for making horror movies. But those of us who see beyond materialism, or see more than it, don't look upon them as delusions, or imaginary. Our experience tells us that spirit is real, and that it's what we are. That is obvious to our awareness. It is useful to be more aware of this, because (as we see it) that's where wisdom and creative power are to be found. It is healing, it brings love, it brings us into harmony with life. It takes practice and discovery.

Reality may be materialist in fact; we just cannot understand the ultimate reality of life by reasoning in a fully materialist conception of the Universe. We have yet to solve the three-body problem. Our measurements of very fine objects can be cruder than those objects themselves. We cannot resolve the particle-wave dispute and due to the ambiguities (one can recognize such an undeniable reality as an electron as a particle or a wave). "Spirit" may be metaphor, but metaphor may at times be all that we have. Perfect knowledge is rarely available. Just ask Werner Heisenberg.

But to understand all that, would require doing more than perhaps you feel is relevant in our fourth turning times. These are not times of Awakening; so in fact in 4Ts it may take a bit of going against the grain and spirit of the times to find it. But Spirit can speak to us at any time, because it is eternal, it is our very self, and in healthy cultures it is always cultivated. Without this more-essential aspect of our being, we cannot really hope for success on the more worldly levels. The separation and dualism of our Western culture does not serve us well anymore. As Graham Hancock eloquently put it, this model is broken; it needs replacing.

We must work with what is available when we can't fashion something better on our own.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The Venn diagram for artists, drunks, and scummy people has much overlap in the combination of the three.

I didn't say that it such a thing didn't exist. However, the absence of objective standards for what art is allows drunks and con artists to claim to be artists. Now I'm not one to knock ripping off people with more money than sense, YHWH knows I've done my share of that as "Malik the African Prince and Psychic" (for entertainment purposes only), what I take issue with is it calling art.

I have many photos of parked cars. But consider the cars: <snip links>

Not my taste. I prefer a 7th generation Elderado, 1976 was a particularly good looking year, heavily modified of course, after market paint job. You'd probably think it tacky though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimpmobile

Silver lamay (whatever that is)

Those shiny jackets and dresses that are commonly worn by performers (particularly those with Silent audences) would be a Lamé. I misspelled the word in my other post, I didn't realize it was a loan word of French origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lam%C3%A9_%28fabric%29

or a candelabra draws undue attention from the music, and as such is at best parody and at worst a perversion. Liberace was flagrant. One sign of his quirkiness as a pianist was raising his hands far above the keyboard as a schlock gesture of virtuosity.

I would agree that it was in poor taste. That being said, one needs to still recognize that he brought the classics to an audience who would otherwise not be exposed to them. Also Silents are noted for their fondness for tacky things.

...I obviously don't have to be a contemporary of James Madison to find a Mozart piano concerto satisfying, do I?

Who has argued that you would? I'm seriously trying to figure out whether you are addressing something that was brought up or if you are just tilting at windmills.

I'm not knocking the Harlem Renaissance, by the way. Unlike most of the popular culture of the time it was genuine and did not sell out to the commerce-driven culture of the time.

I was thinking more along the lines of New Orleans...but Harlem works too.

Typical Reactive/Nomad -- getting crotchety in middle age!

I was crotchety when I was 12. Middle age has nothing to do with it.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Possible physical explainations from the very mundane to the not very mundane:

1. The light bulb itself is not screwed in correctly leading to poor connection
2. The wireing of the wall globe lamp is faulty
3. There is a short in the power supply to the wall globe lamp.




When you say it was turned on, I'm taking you to mean that the valve was left open through a manual control and we are not talking about a slow or even fast drip which may be caused by other factors internal to the faucet right? If the manual valve was shut off and the faucet ran anyway, it is likely either a faulty valve or detritus that is preventing the valve from being closed.

If the manual valve was open and it should have been closed, and no one else was in the house I don't have a ready explanation, but my gut tells me that "ghost" is not a rational explanation.



Since this door swells due to damp conditions it is reasonable that the door itself is not exactly plumb and is probably constructed poorly. I would suggest using a 4ft level to determine if the floor is level and if the door is plumb. This of course assumes you still reside in the dwelling where these things have occurred

All of that being said, it is my contention that a "supernatural" does not exist. Everything that happens can be explained by natural phenomena, and those things we can't explain now, we probably will be able to explain later when we understand the universe better through science.

Yes,ghost is not a rational explanation which is why i have to consider all explanations. These could be the explanation, but thing is, the tap incident and the door incident only happened once. The wall globe, only once and it happened all in one night till the battery ran flat. The lamp it goes through periods of doing what it should then for a few nights running i will wake and find it on all the time. I eventually had to rip the plug out the wall as the switch kept getting flipped on. Other than that everything seems to work as it should except that door which opened and closed for some reason despite the fact i have to kick it open.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Possible physical explainations from the very mundane to the not very mundane:

1. The light bulb itself is not screwed in correctly leading to poor connection
2. The wireing of the wall globe lamp is faulty
3. There is a short in the power supply to the wall globe lamp.




When you say it was turned on, I'm taking you to mean that the valve was left open through a manual control and we are not talking about a slow or even fast drip which may be caused by other factors internal to the faucet right? If the manual valve was shut off and the faucet ran anyway, it is likely either a faulty valve or detritus that is preventing the valve from being closed.

If the manual valve was open and it should have been closed, and no one else was in the house I don't have a ready explanation, but my gut tells me that "ghost" is not a rational explanation.



Since this door swells due to damp conditions it is reasonable that the door itself is not exactly plumb and is probably constructed poorly. I would suggest using a 4ft level to determine if the floor is level and if the door is plumb. This of course assumes you still reside in the dwelling where these things have occurred

All of that being said, it is my contention that a "supernatural" does not exist. Everything that happens can be explained by natural phenomena, and those things we can't explain now, we probably will be able to explain later when we understand the universe better through science.

Oh apparently my mother had come home and the tap was "gushing" water. Kitchen was flooded. Last time i had gone near the tap, the sink barely had water in it. I had checked it and it was not dripping. I went back in my room and continued reading. In-between that time, my mother came home and the tap was gushing water to quote her, and the kitchen was flooded. I had been awake the whole time reading in my room. No one else in the house.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

Possible physical explainations from the very mundane to the not very mundane:

1. The light bulb itself is not screwed in correctly leading to poor connection
2. The wireing of the wall globe lamp is faulty
3. There is a short in the power supply to the wall globe lamp.




When you say it was turned on, I'm taking you to mean that the valve was left open through a manual control and we are not talking about a slow or even fast drip which may be caused by other factors internal to the faucet right? If the manual valve was shut off and the faucet ran anyway, it is likely either a faulty valve or detritus that is preventing the valve from being closed.

If the manual valve was open and it should have been closed, and no one else was in the house I don't have a ready explanation, but my gut tells me that "ghost" is not a rational explanation.



Since this door swells due to damp conditions it is reasonable that the door itself is not exactly plumb and is probably constructed poorly. I would suggest using a 4ft level to determine if the floor is level and if the door is plumb. This of course assumes you still reside in the dwelling where these things have occurred

All of that being said, it is my contention that a "supernatural" does not exist. Everything that happens can be explained by natural phenomena, and those things we can't explain now, we probably will be able to explain later when we understand the universe better through science.

The light to the lamp...the wall switch was flipped on. I kept flipping it off when i would wake to find it flipped on. As for the globe, it only happened in one night till the battery ran flat. It was fine after that according to my mother.

Originally Posted by Kinser79

...the absence of objective standards for what art is allows drunks and con artists to claim to be artists. Now I'm not one to knock ripping off people with more money than sense, YHWH knows I've done my share of that as "Malik the African Prince and Psychic" (for entertainment purposes only), what I take issue with is it calling art.

You have done that? I could probably do much the same myself, except without any allusions to Africa. But I have read much philosophy and psychology so I am a few steps ahead of most people.

Not my taste. I prefer a 7th generation Elderado, 1976 was a particularly good looking year, heavily modified of course, after market paint job. You'd probably think it tacky though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pimpmobile

It's the 'pimp' part that makes it tacky. Because of what pimps do to women, anything associated with them is debased.

At least low-riders are associated with a benign culture.

Those shiny jackets and dresses that are commonly worn by performers (particularly those with Silent audences) would be a Lamé. I misspelled the word in my other post, I didn't realize it was a loan word of French origin.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lam%C3%A9_%28fabric%29

Excused. In classical music, anything that draws attention away from the music generally debases the concert experience.

I would agree that it was in poor taste. That being said, one needs to still recognize that he brought the classics to an audience who would otherwise not be exposed to them. Also Silents are noted for their fondness for tacky things.

The Liberace audience did not 'graduate' to more traditional concert-going.

Who has argued that you would (need to be a contemporary of James Madison to love the music of Mozart)? I'm seriously trying to figure out whether you are addressing something that was brought up or if you are just tilting at windmills.

If an artistic expression is great enough it will have appeal beyond the generation of the creators and of the original audience.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

So, he is saying that the afterlife is a "thought." So, is he saying, that is what i see? They are thoughts?

No, that is not what he said. He said what we see in those experiences are spirits, for lack of a better word. Life after life. Survival of the soul after the body dies. But the next world, being less substantial, less of the flux of atoms, is a world where thoughts are more immediately creative of your experience. There are levels to the next world, he said; the first level is like a copy of this world (or vice versa) and higher levels are without form, more like pure consciousness.

I dunno about that. I see them as bright as a light. Well, my first experience i saw it very clearly in the dark. As I got older i could see the figures, only lit up so i could see them when they would cross direct light. A window or a lamp. They look like a form of energy to me. Makes the same sound too and i would get the same sense of presence as i do when i know someone is near. He mainly just talked about his own experiences and then said they are like a thought.

Dr. Fontana's experiences were a lot like yours, except that he was in contact with those lights, etc., in a controlled setting with mediums that helped the researchers to contact the spirits. It's not so much like a thought, but like our consciousness which has thoughts.

I can only consider that in the way we think about our safe space. The time we felt most at ease/comfortable. Culturally for me that would be mid/late 90s. It is what i know and the time before innocence died. It is most prominent for the elderly. They feel safest in their era as it is what they know before the world changed too much for them to understand/connect with it anymore. Ghosts would i guess be the same. They died in a certain era and they are that era on replay. Oh btw no i have not seen space odyssey. I have heard of it.

It is something like that, with ghosts. I am feeling more like that myself, now that I am in my sixties. Although I feel younger, some of this internet and i-phone stuff is getting hard to keep up with. The language people use gets hard to fathom, and terms are used which apparently everyone knows but I don't. Even here it happens. I am glad at least that pop music is not as incomprehensible (and ugly ) as it was a few years ago. But mindless show biz has taken over the TV talk shows and even the News broadcasts here in the USA. There's no more talk radio, and my confidence in listening to the radio for current music is gone. And there's the fact that we had made such breakthroughs in spiritual and psychic things, and yet now it's as if it all never happened, and people just ignore it and go back to materialism just like in the 1950s. So, for me, today's world is getting stranger.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

No, that is not what he said. He said what we see in those experiences are spirits, for lack of a better word. Life after life. Survival of the soul after the body dies. But the next world, being less substantial, less of the flux of atoms, is a world where thoughts are more immediately creative of your experience. There are levels to the next world, he said; the first level is like a copy of this world (or vice versa) and higher levels are without form, more like pure consciousness.

Dr. Fontana's experiences were a lot like yours, except that he was in contact with those lights, etc., in a controlled setting with mediums that helped the researchers to contact the spirits. It's not so much like a thought, but like our consciousness which has thoughts.

It is something like that, with ghosts. I am feeling more like that myself, now that I am in my sixties. Although I feel younger, some of this internet and i-phone stuff is getting hard to keep up with. The language people use gets hard to fathom, and terms are used which apparently everyone knows but I don't. Even here it happens. I am glad at least that pop music is not as incomprehensible (and ugly ) as it was a few years ago. But mindless show biz has taken over the TV talk shows and even the News broadcasts here in the USA. There's no more talk radio, and my confidence in listening to the radio for current music is gone. And there's the fact that we had made such breakthroughs in spiritual and psychic things, and yet now it's as if it all never happened, and people just ignore it and go back to materialism just like in the 1950s. So, for me, today's world is getting stranger.

Sorry just got back from a very hard day at work. Oh ok i didn't understand what he was getting at. I wish he had been more in depth with it than just more of just his own experience. More in depth with what they are exactly. I just assume it is left over energy. (shrug) Cannot deny what i have seen. Funny thing is i saw the lady ghost here before i even knew a lady from the fifties died here. Her name was on the lease for the house, then it said she had been taken to hospital, then suddenly her brother in law took over the place. So i gather that is the lady i used to see. Lol not worried about you calling pop ugly, my tastes are different and that is ok. I think most rap is ugly and i dont like punk but each to their own. Some do like it. Yeah i assume it is the same for ghosts who see the world changing (that is if some are aware and from my experience some seem to be aware and some mind their own business as if i do not even exist which i have found strange. Well i suppose everything is in waves like turnings. Materialism makes more sense in certain times than others. On the whole i mean. At least you can see now, i am not totally a materialist. I have had some things that i have encountered that made me question the world around me and from what i have experienced, and listening to others who have encountered what we call ghosts, i can relate to that. Too many things have happened that were questionable and cannot be explained through science...yet. I would be interested if they have anything to say about it in the future. I wish mine had been "lights." What i saw was no light. It was every single time the shape of a transparent, slim build woman in a 50s style dress with a bun style hairdo. Oh except the man, but i only saw him once. Once was enough...i think the man is mad for wanting to experience that.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

Sorry just got back from a very hard day at work. Oh ok i didn't understand what he was getting at. I wish he had been more in depth with it than just more of just his own experience. More in depth with what they are exactly. I just assume it is left over energy. (shrug) Cannot deny what i have seen. Funny thing is i saw the lady ghost here before i even knew a lady from the fifties died here. Her name was on the lease for the house, then it said she had been taken to hospital, then suddenly her brother in law took over the place. So i gather that is the lady i used to see.

I thought Dr. Fontana was pretty clear about everything. It wasn't his own experience; it was many sessions and research over many years. It was clearly not left over energy, but disincarnate spirits. So, if your lady was like the spirits Dr. Fontana encountered, she survived death as a spirit, and was still attached to being at the house sometimes. To dismiss survival as an explanation outright is, as Dr. Fontana said, not the open-minded attitude that science is supposed to have (but often doesn't).

Lol not worried about you calling pop ugly, my tastes are different and that is ok. I think most rap is ugly and i dont like punk but each to their own. Some do like it. Yeah i assume it is the same for ghosts who see the world changing (that is if some are aware and from my experience some seem to be aware and some mind their own business as if i do not even exist which i have found strange. Well i suppose everything is in waves like turnings. Materialism makes more sense in certain times than others. On the whole i mean.

I should say though, that although I like some of the recent 4T pop music, I don't feel at home with people here and some other places who can only relate to 3T pop and rock, and often the very worst of it in my opinion. We have more common ground here on the 2T, but that's the old days. Also I feel alienated from those here as well as elsewhere who don't accept spiritual experience and the new spiritual music. So I guess as we get older, some of us can feel like ghosts, but still incarnate. I wonder if it will get even worse as I get older.

At least you can see now, i am not totally a materialist. I have had some things that i have encountered that made me question the world around me and from what i have experienced, and listening to others who have encountered what we call ghosts, i can relate to that. Too many things have happened that were questionable and cannot be explained through science...yet. I would be interested if they have anything to say about it in the future. I wish mine had been "lights." What i saw was no light. It was every single time the shape of a transparent, slim build woman in a 50s style dress with a bun style hairdo. Oh except the man, but i only saw him once. Once was enough...i think the man is mad for wanting to experience that.

There's a lot of variety to these experiences. Myself I am sure many things can't be explained through materialism, and science can only show and test the evidence that they exist, and the good researchers in the field do that. To actually understand these things, you go to the spirit realm.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I thought Dr. Fontana was pretty clear about everything. It wasn't his own experience; it was many sessions and research over many years. It was clearly not left over energy, but disincarnate spirits. So, if your lady was like the spirits Dr. Fontana encountered, she survived death as a spirit, and was still attached to being at the house sometimes. To dismiss survival as an explanation outright is, as Dr. Fontana said, not the open-minded attitude that science is supposed to have (but often doesn't).


I should say though, that although I like some of the recent 4T pop music, I don't feel at home with people here and some other places who can only relate to 3T pop and rock, and often the very worst of it in my opinion. We have more common ground here on the 2T, but that's the old days. Also I feel alienated from those here as well as elsewhere who don't accept spiritual experience and the new spiritual music. So I guess as we get older, some of us can feel like ghosts, but still incarnate. I wonder if it will get even worse as I get older.



There's a lot of variety to these experiences. Myself I am sure many things can't be explained through materialism, and science can only show and test the evidence that they exist, and the good researchers in the field do that. To actually understand these things, you go to the spirit realm.

What does that mean? Top highlighted comment.


That is the thing, i grew up with the 3T music and probably many here too or their generation created it so it is a thing we share from our youth and to us that is the good old days. But that may not be the case with some boomers and older. That is not what they experienced from their youth and i suppose that music, like it does for us younger folk, yours would take you back to where you were most comfortable, what you connect with and what makes sense to you. It may not for younger folk. Sure, i enjoy many 2T music, but i wont have the memories from back then of when it came out and the feel of the era.


Well, as for going to the spirit realm better them than me. It took a long time to be able to block it out. When i was a kid i thought that man had broken in and i am sure he is the one who would leave me with scratches and that hand mark that was on my back was certainly larger than my own. It is so funny it stopped when my nana passed away. No one messes with her! I have had too much grief from them to want to do what he did. Even then people dismiss it. I wish i had that luxury.

Originally Posted by Taramarie

What does that mean?...
Well, as for going to the spirit realm better them than me. It took a long time to be able to block it out. When i was a kid i thought that man had broken in and i am sure he is the one who would leave me with scratches and that hand mark that was on my back was certainly larger than my own. It is so funny it stopped when my nana passed away. No one messes with her! I have had too much grief from them to want to do what he did. Even then people dismiss it. I wish i had that luxury.

What is valuable from your experiences you described, is not more experiences like it. It could be your wider experience of reality. You have experienced the spirit realm; it's that simple. It opens you to realities beyond normally-accepted materialist science. There's a whole universe of that realm. Discarnate spirits mean souls who survived death, just as I discussed on the life after life thread. We need to be open to the likely-fact that this physical life is not all there is. And as Dr. Fontana said, it's a lot of fun to explore this issue.

As I have tried to explain too, life is meaningless without life after death. Just ceasing to exist, means you never existed. There are alternative views to the dogma that "we're just meat" and that nothing happens after death, as Graham Hancock explained earlier in this thread.

What is "spirit?" Are you conscious? That is your spirit. Materialist science can't explain the fact that you are conscious, and it never will. Spirit survives physical death. Are you ever in a time other than "now?" No. That means you are in eternity. That means you are eternal, and you are connected to All.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

What is valuable from your experiences you described, is not more experiences like it. It could be your wider experience of reality. You have experienced the spirit realm; it's that simple. It opens you to realities beyond normally-accepted materialist science. There's a whole universe of that realm. Discarnate spirits mean souls who survived death, just as I discussed on the life after life thread. We need to be open to the likely-fact that this physical life is not all there is. And as Dr. Fontana said, it's a lot of fun to explore this issue.

As I have tried to explain too, life is meaningless without life after death. Just ceasing to exist, means you never existed. There are alternative views to the dogma that "we're just meat" and that nothing happens after death, as Graham Hancock explained earlier in this thread.

What is "spirit?" Are you conscious? That is your spirit. Materialist science can't explain the fact that you are conscious, and it never will. Spirit survives physical death. Are you ever in a time other than "now?" No. That means you are in eternity. That means you are eternal, and you are connected to All.

Yes it does but my first experience was so traumatizing i was terrified of them after that. I thought someone had broken into the house and was leaning over me in a threatening manner. I feared for my life. So, that is why i say, better him than me! But has made me really think and try rationalize it but i come up empty. But because this house has been extremely active that is something i just cannot say oh that did not happen. So it has been a learning curb yet i have not really come up with a solution. I just connected them to energy as that is what they look like to me and sound like i may add. The same feel as if there is a person nearby. Oh ok so that is what that means. Well some seem very aware and some seem to not be aware of others around them. The man definitely paid attention to me. The lady minds her own business. Never looked at me (am grateful!) Well i know that physical life is not all there is. At least for some anyway. It is interesting to think about it. I have been torn between just the now then nothing, but then i think of what i have seen and think well wtf are those? They are most certainly people. I know it sounds crazy but the guy spoke. The lady of course, no. She pays no attention. Do not care if no one believes me. Not many do. But i know what i went through in this damned house my whole childhood. I do not think life is meaningless without life after death. I enjoy my life now and appreciate it for the fact i am mortal, but my experience says there is something whether aware or not and it seems different for everyone. I do not know why.


Spirit? Well, i have always thought it is energy. In my experience with ghosts here, i knew they were around when i could first of all pick up someone was near. It is that feeling of knowing someone is there without seeing them. Not sure if you understand. I could sense it moving down the hall, then id hear the same sound electrical appliances make. It is a light hissing sound when the power is on. Then i would see them if they go past a direct light source, a window or a lamp. It seems similar to energy. I dont know if consciousness is spirit. I only know some seem aware of people and some dont. But they seem to have purpose even if aware of people or not so, i dont know. Science has an explanation for being conscious but i have seen it with ghosts too so i listen to science and see with my eyes what the ghosts do. I dont understand what i highlighted. Lol i can only explain what i have experienced and try rationalize it which is hard to do for me given i tend to lean heavily on science. I dont know about eternal...only what i have seen. Connected to all....what...