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Thread: Russia – Culture, Society, and Future







Post#1 at 05-05-2010 10:17 PM by Silent39 [at Florida joined Apr 2010 #posts 154]
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Russia – Culture, Society, and Future

Doug Casey on the Russian Bear
posted at http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-doug-casey-russian-bear

This blog post is an interesting scan for Casey's characterizations of Russia. He identifies why he will not invest in Russia. He makes statements about its culture, history, society, military, future, demographics, and geography.

There are many "quotes" for Forum members to comment about. A few examples…

1. China will take over Siberia,,,,
2. Muslims will overtake Russia…
3. Low birth ratios in the developed populations will define the future…
4. Palestine will win over Israel…

and here is a sample quote:
Hysteria is the ruling psychological state in today's world. But population decline is something intellectuals approve of because, I believe, they basically hate people. The chattering classes want to see, but don't particularly want to report on, terminal population decline in the developed world. That might lead to the conclusion humans aren't going to destroy the planet after all. It's the elephant in the room nobody's talking about.

Has Russia's cultural history created trends that will control its future? Is it happeining in the US and other nations?
Silent39







Post#2 at 05-06-2010 09:23 AM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
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Quote Originally Posted by Silent39 View Post
Doug Casey on the Russian Bear
posted at http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-doug-casey-russian-bear

This blog post is an interesting scan for Casey's characterizations of Russia. He identifies why he will not invest in Russia. He makes statements about its culture, history, society, military, future, demographics, and geography.

There are many "quotes" for Forum members to comment about. A few examples…

1. China will take over Siberia,,,,
2. Muslims will overtake Russia…
3. Low birth ratios in the developed populations will define the future…
4. Palestine will win over Israel…

and here is a sample quote:

Has Russia's cultural history created trends that will control its future? Is it happeining in the US and other nations?
Demographics is destiny. The UN population forecasts which have shown a high degree of accuracy show human population likely rolling over in 2050 and headed down. It will go down exponentially just like it went up. Russia and Italy are leading the way. Probably whole areas of Russia will simply depopulate over the next 30 years. It is difficult to turn around. If you want more 21 year olds, you need to have decided 21 years ago.

The future belongs to those who show up for it.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#3 at 05-06-2010 11:26 AM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
Demographics is destiny. The UN population forecasts which have shown a high degree of accuracy show human population likely rolling over in 2050 and headed down. It will go down exponentially just like it went up. Russia and Italy are leading the way. Probably whole areas of Russia will simply depopulate over the next 30 years. It is difficult to turn around. If you want more 21 year olds, you need to have decided 21 years ago.

The future belongs to those who show up for it.

James50
Here a nice little document from 2004: World Population to 2300, from the UN Department of Economic nd Social Affairs. Slide on over to page 56 (PDF) or 42 (doucmnet paganatin) and look at Table 5 - 20 Largest Countries and Their Populations - Selected Years for a view of winners, losers and also-rans.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#4 at 05-08-2010 01:32 AM by Silent39 [at Florida joined Apr 2010 #posts 154]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Here a nice little document from 2004: World Population to 2300, from the UN Department of Economic nd Social Affairs. Slide on over to page 56 (PDF) or 42 (doucmnet paganatin) and look at Table 5 - 20 Largest Countries and Their Populations - Selected Years for a view of winners, losers and also-rans.
Good source of data. Thank you!

Interesting, North America is the only major region that does not drop in population according to the tables. If population rules then India, China, Africa, and North America will dominate.

This leads to another observation. If the Anglo/American society is supposed to be entering decline then it may imply that the white racial group is in decline.

Based upon population the US may have a bright future based upon an integrated racial population. The US has been special due to its origination and imagration. Continuing to be the melting pot for all is a very strong and compelling role for the US.

For those that think in colors the blue have been the imigration regions as many folks living in these regions lived in the melting pot. The red regions were more isolated and rural where imagration folks did not enter.

Russia could turn Muslim and Chinese in the future. Howerver, Franch, Germany, UK, etc. have population areas were imigration centers have been established. These cultures are clashing with historical norms. Is this the key to red/blue in the US too?
Silent39







Post#5 at 05-08-2010 05:21 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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Three generations of enforced atheism are likely to affect Russia for centuries, in ways only vaguely understood today.
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!







Post#6 at 05-11-2010 09:37 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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I think enforced atheism was the least of their problems, actually.







Post#7 at 01-25-2013 01:57 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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Russia being redefined as a Euro-Pacific country.







Post#8 at 01-25-2013 04:28 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by TimWalker View Post
Russia being redefined as a Euro-Pacific country.
"Re"-defined? Russia's been semi-oriental for over a thousand years. Back in the early 1700s, Russian royalty generally had at least one member (often the tsarina, for whatever reason) that was conversant in Mandarin. Going back yet another four-five hundred years, it was even a part of the Mongol holdings.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#9 at 01-26-2013 06:54 AM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Justin, did you ever move back to Russia or are you still living in Oregon?







Post#10 at 01-26-2013 04:41 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mikebert View Post
Justin, did you ever move back to Russia or are you still living in Oregon?
We're a bit closer as of a couple years ago, but still stateside for the moment. I came out to Florida summer 2011(?) when the owner of the Russian outfit I worked for asked me to help get an export arm to the business going. I bounce back occasionally, but my main contact with friends and coworkers from Petersburg is skype and email. I figure a couple more years while this thing here gets fully rolling, then we bounce all the way back.

Lucky kids get to spend a month out of their summers back there with friends... Ah, to be free of cares again, eh?
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#11 at 02-26-2013 01:52 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Russian MPs back 'gay propaganda' ban amid scuffles

The Russian parliament has backed a ban on the promotion of homosexuality among children in its first reading, amid scuffles on the street outside.

Police made arrests outside the State Duma in Moscow after gay rights supporters planning a "kiss-in" were assaulted by opponents.

The bill echoes laws passed by Russian cities such as St Petersburg.

Human rights campaigner Lyudmila Alexeyeva said its real aim was to "curb the rights of sexual minorities".

The bill faces two more readings in the State Duma, after which it must be approved by the upper house (Federation Council) and President Vladimir Putin before it can become law.

If passed, it would mean that across Russia events promoting gay rights would be banned and the organisers fined, the BBC's Steve Rosenberg reports from Moscow.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21194710


From the BBC World News, an interesting look into Russia. It's trying to make a law that will ban minors from seeing what's deemed "homosexual propaganda"--and to those who expose their children to such propaganda to be made criminals, etc. I believe what I heard on the radio this morning was a follow up to this story. In the follow up they interviewed two Russian homosexual couples who have children and the trials they face.

One couple lives in Moscow and more openly, and can due so to due to the more liberally minded part of Russia she lives in (though their children on one occasion had to deal with what was termed "homophobic torment"). She made the comment that the law is simply there for corruption purposes and selective enforcement.

The second couple they wouldn't give any information about because they lived in an obviously more provincial place of Russia and were afraid that if they disclosed any information that their secret would be out. The two men had to live as though they were roommates and even keep the relationship a secret from the young boy they'd adopted (well, adopted by one of them). The one who's officially adopted the boy talked about how the principal of his son's school and other members of the community think it's a shame that the boy is growing up outside of a "normal" family and lacks a "motherly influence"--though apparently they don't suspect that the man is homosexual. He points out that his son is one of the top students in his class and yadda yadda, and how the community isn't focused on another single parent (a mother) in getting her to find a "fatherly" influence for her children.

Then the BBC interviewed the guy proposing the law and he went on and on about how society had a right to impose the majority view on the minority essentially (not his exact words but the gist of it). And that children should be raised to know that non "normal" families and lifestyles were completely "unacceptable". When asked to define what "homosexual propaganda" was, he dodged the question by challenging the interviewer to look back to his mid-20th Century British forefathers, as they would be able to provide a better definition than he would. Through the course of questioning the guy did manage to admit he thought simply having gay families with children and gay pride parades as promoting "homosexual propaganda".

There was something about the entire "impose society's will" and "make all those who aren't normal suffer" that seems Turning related to me.

~Chas'88


"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#12 at 02-27-2013 10:47 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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And just think: The Russians are taking over Staten Island from my people (the Italians).
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!







Post#13 at 02-27-2013 01:13 PM by Attila [at joined Mar 2011 #posts 86]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
And just think: The Russians are taking over Staten Island from my people (the Italians).
Lots of Russians in LA/San Fran also. Never been to Russia though, would love too. From the many Russian friends I have here I would never count them out as a nation. They are sharp as a razor and tough as nails. I really love the Russian people, by far one of my favorite civilizations.
“All right, then, I'll go to hell"
Samuel Clemens







Post#14 at 02-28-2013 06:11 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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Quote Originally Posted by Attila View Post
Lots of Russians in LA/San Fran also. Never been to Russia though, would love too. From the many Russian friends I have here I would never count them out as a nation. They are sharp as a razor and tough as nails. I really love the Russian people, by far one of my favorite civilizations.


But too many Staten Island Russians have the same flawed mentality as the Cubans: Since Communism was bad, its diametrical opposite - laissez-faire, predatory, Darwinian capitalism - must be good.
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!







Post#15 at 04-10-2013 04:16 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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A new EU-the Eurasian Union?







Post#16 at 06-27-2013 07:41 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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Russia needs to can the leftover sore-loser attitude from the Cold War and see that it has legitimate concurrences of interests with the United States - most notably the fight against Islamic extremism; indeed, Muslims have irredentist claims on Russian (and Chinese) territory, when they do not have such claims on any American territory - and the loss of any more relatively mild-climate lands would be devastating to Russia's very food supply (even as Russia is benefiting from global warming in this respect).
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!







Post#17 at 06-27-2013 12:31 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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You guys' predictions on Russia's demographic future are a little out of date. They are growing again, albeit very slowly. Is the Muslim population growing, sure, but even the ethnic Russian fertility level is higher than the Euro average. Will post links when I get home.







Post#18 at 06-27-2013 01:04 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
You guys' predictions on Russia's demographic future are a little out of date. They are growing again, albeit very slowly. Is the Muslim population growing, sure, but even the ethnic Russian fertility level is higher than the Euro average. Will post links when I get home.
No need to look too far. It's on teh wik (has been for two years at least). Anecdotally, we knew more families in Pushkin with 3+ kids than we did with 2 or fewer. Most of them "ethnic Russian" (if you, as seems to be the case, take that to include over half of the ethnicities that have their roots inside Russia).
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#19 at 06-27-2013 01:15 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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Quote Originally Posted by Justin '77 View Post
No need to look too far. It's on teh wik (has been for two years at least). Anecdotally, we knew more families in Pushkin with 3+ kids than we did with 2 or fewer. Most of them "ethnic Russian" (if you, as seems to be the case, take that to include over half of the ethnicities that have their roots inside Russia).
I suppose that would depend on how picky you felt like being. Are Nenets or Bashkirs or Chuvash Russian by ethnicity, or just nationality? Depends on who you ask.







Post#20 at 06-27-2013 01:28 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
I suppose that would depend on how picky you felt like being. Are Nenets or Bashkirs or Chuvash Russian by ethnicity, or just nationality? Depends on who you ask.
Nah; those don't tend to get included. But Ukrainians, Saami, the many varied descendant peoples of the Varangians, Samogitians, Prussians, Karelians, Vepsians, Votes, and so forth, generally do. There are even a lot of Tatar who would get lumped in with "ethnic russians" based on where they live.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#21 at 06-27-2013 01:45 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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And what religion they are, I imagine.







Post#22 at 06-27-2013 02:04 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
And what religion they are, I imagine.
Yah. Though there are more than a few muslims of seeming-pure-Rus descent. Russia's been home to the Big Three monotheisms for a thousand years or more already.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#23 at 06-27-2013 02:17 PM by JordanGoodspeed [at joined Mar 2013 #posts 3,587]
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In any event, the meme that Russia will be empty inside of 20 years needs to die.







Post#24 at 06-27-2013 03:13 PM by Justin '77 [at Meh. joined Sep 2001 #posts 12,182]
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Quote Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed View Post
In any event, the meme that Russia will be empty inside of 20 years needs to die.
Yah. Been fighting it since back when I was watching it be debunked right in front of my eyes. Eventually, like the people who still refer to "Czechoslovakia" or "The Soviet Union" when they mean to talk about places that actually exist today, those for whom the old false meme is habit will fade away.
"Qu'est-ce que c'est que cela, la loi ? On peut donc être dehors. Je ne comprends pas. Quant à moi, suis-je dans la loi ? suis-je hors la loi ? Je n'en sais rien. Mourir de faim, est-ce être dans la loi ?" -- Tellmarch

"Человек не может снять с себя ответственности за свои поступки." - L. Tolstoy

"[it]
is no doubt obvious, the cult of the experts is both self-serving, for those who propound it, and fraudulent." - Noam Chomsky







Post#25 at 07-27-2013 07:50 AM by '58 Flat [at Hardhat From Central Jersey joined Jul 2001 #posts 3,300]
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What does everybody here think about the rapidly-spreading vodka boycott, due to Vladimir Putin's recent "anti-gay" proclamations?
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.

Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!
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