Originally Posted by ziggyX65

And does Perry's announcement today mean that all of the other political news of the day just got Rick-rolled?

Ha Ha. So much for the Straw Poll.

Originally Posted by millennialX

Watching Rick Perry's announcement. Geez, CNN and Fox news seems so excited about him. He just snickered like Bush. Is that a Texas swagger thing?

I don't know......Weird feeling in the pitt of my stomach.

Here's a piece drudging up the rot from that oh so pretty picture that Perry likes to paint of what he has done for Texas. This was written even before today's announcement.

Dig beneath the talking points and you find a more troubling picture: rising unemployment, a glut of low-wage jobs without benefits, overcrowded homeless shelters and public schools facing billions in budget cuts. Surita and Johnson have been airbrushed from the miracle. But they still can be found on the housing waiting lists and shelter entrances.
"If you want a bad job, go to Texas," said Texas Rep. Garnet Coleman (D), who represents a district in Houston, in an interview with The Huffington Post. "If you want to work at Carl's Jr., our doors are open, and if you want to go to a crumbling school in a failing school system, this is the place to come."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_917460.html

Originally Posted by millennialX

Watching Rick Perry's announcement. Geez, CNN and Fox news seems so excited about him. He just snickered like Bush. Is that a Texas swagger thing?

I don't know......Weird feeling in the pitt of my stomach.

This guy is a charming idiot, like Reagan, and he will get every single Movement Conservative lunatic out to vote because he is a wannabe theocrat with associations with un-American religious crazies. He's probably a sociopath, too.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Here's a piece drudging up the rot from that oh so pretty picture that Perry likes to paint of what he has done for Texas. This was written even before today's announcement.

I've said it before and I'll say it again (ignoring the usual talking point that the main problem with schools is lack of funding, which I would refute) -- Perry has talked about Texas having a much better economy and job market than most of the country -- and he's partially right (but it's starting to come with a huge deferred cost). But why? Because cheaper labor, weaker regulation and right-to-work status are much of what Texas pushes to Big Business. In other words, though it's a matter of degree, businesses are moving to (or expanding in) Texas for much the same reason jobs are being exported to China and India -- to exploit cheaper labor costs and to get rid of those pesky unions. Much of the advertising the state does is geared at convincing business they can operate a lot more cheaply here -- mostly through a worse deal for labor.

So even if Texas does grab some jobs from the rust belt and the coastal states with higher labor costs and more unionism, it comes at some cost to the middle/working class laborer as a whole on the national scale. So basically, the success of Texas and other lower-wage, right-to-work states is basically symbolic of the race to the bottom for labor in this country.

Sorry, side bar...I'm hungry and really want to try some Godfather Pizza right now.

(reference to Herman Cain )

Originally Posted by ziggyX65

I've said it before and I'll say it again (ignoring the usual talking point that the main problem with schools is lack of funding, which I would refute) -- Perry has talked about Texas having a much better economy and job market than most of the country -- and he's partially right (but it's starting to come with a huge deferred cost). But why? Because cheaper labor, weaker regulation and right-to-work status are much of what Texas pushes to Big Business. In other words, though it's a matter of degree, businesses are moving to (or expanding in) Texas for much the same reason jobs are being exported to China and India -- to exploit cheaper labor costs and to get rid of those pesky unions. Much of the advertising the state does is geared at convincing business they can operate a lot more cheaply here -- mostly through a worse deal for labor.

So even if Texas does grab some jobs from the rust belt and the coastal states with higher labor costs and more unionism, it comes at some cost to the middle/working class laborer as a whole on the national scale. So basically, the success of Texas and other lower-wage, right-to-work states is basically symbolic of the race to the bottom for labor in this country.

It sure is. But Perry has been spinning the *Look what I've done for Texas* web for quite some time. The sad part, people are buying it. Those who were already cheerleading for him at a gathering I attended recently, were touting what a strong and powerful leader he was and how much he has done for the state of Texas. They are looking for a bigoted figure that has the persona of John Wayne, and I think they have found him.

Here are some comments from a few red state residents after they heard Perry had thrown his cowboy hat and six shooter into the presidential hopeful ring. You might want to take a couple of TUMS before reading.



[QUOTE]RedState attendees were thrilled that Perry had decided to come to their gathering to make his announcement, even if they weren't all committed to supporting any specific candidate quite yet.

Gerri McDaniel, who is active in the Myrtle Beach Tea Party, called Perry's appearance "very exciting for South Carolina." She and her group have met with every candidate in the race so far, and she's planning to reserve judgment on the Texas governor until she meets with him as well.

"I've met with all the other candidates that are running," she said. "I really don't want to say anything until I meet him in person and hear some of the issues and what he's going to do for the country."

Charleston resident Milan Waters and his teenage son, Ben, were already on board with Perry. Ben said he backs Perry "110 percent."

"I love that he's a conservative Tea Party guy -- not wishy-washy," he said. "Mitt Romney had my vote until Rick Perry came out. The things that were lacking in Mitt Romney are made up in Gov. Perry ... You couldn't create a better candidate than Rick Perry."

"We wanted someone with experience, someone with credentials and someone with leadership, but we want a conservative," Waters added. "Conservative is number one, but we want the leadership. Romney -- he has the leadership, he's got some issues on the conservative [side] -- he's more moderate than I would like -- but Rick Perry fills those."

On Sunday, Perry will be in Iowa for a fundraiser with the Black Hawk County Republicans. His trip comes just a day after the Ames Straw Poll, the biggest day of the summer for the state's Republicans.

Perry could not participate as he was not a declared candidate in time for the event. But his decision to announce his candidacy on the same day as the straw poll threatened to cause some hurt feelings amongst voters in the important primary state. On Friday, Iowa Republican Party Chairman Matt Strawn insisted that Perry's decision was not a "diss to Iowa."

Perry is known as a strong conservative who is expected to be a top-tier candidate as he enters the field. He also recently sparked a controversy when he hosted a large prayer rally that raised questions about mixing the governor's office with a Christian event, the political nature of the event and the extreme views of some of the sponsors. [QUOTE]

Entire piece: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...usaolp00000009

Is Perry, George W. Bush on steroids?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Is Perry, George W. Bush on steroids?

Shallower and stupider, but I don't know whether has has any plans for any wars for profit and his glory.

First Cuba and then Venezuela? Now that would be Dubya on steroids.

I guess Bachmann and Perry will try to out christian one another. Ugh! How Ron Paul plays into all of this, I'm not sure.

Michele Bachmann wins Ames straw poll

AMES, Iowa (Reuters) - Michele Bachmann narrowly won the Iowa straw poll of Republicans on Saturday in the first big test of the 2012 presidential campaign, as Texas Governor Rick Perry formally launched a White House bid that could reshape the race.

Bachmann, a representative from Minnesota, edged out Ron Paul, another representative, and rolled over the rest of the Republican field to capture the nonbinding Iowa mock election, a traditional early gauge of organizational strength in the state that holds the first 2012 nominating contest.

Bachmann won 4,823 votes to Paul's 4,671. Tim Pawlenty, who had focused on a strong showing in the straw poll to rescue his struggling campaign, finished a distant third with 2,293 votes in a bruising setback.
In South Carolina, Perry formally jumped into the race with a blistering attack on President Barack Obama.
"We cannot afford four more years of this rudderless leadership," Perry told a conference of conservatives, promising to reduce taxes, regulations and government intrusion in people's lives.

The straw poll and Perry's campaign launch, coming less than six months before Iowa's nominating contest, promised to reshuffle the Republican field fighting for the nomination to challenge Obama, a Democrat, in 2012.

Perry, a staunch social conservative with a strong job creation record in Texas, is expected to immediately vault into the top tier of contenders along with front-runner former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney. Perry visits Iowa on Sunday.


Perry finished sixth in the straw poll with 718 write-in votes even though he was not on the ballot. That was more than Romney, who was on the ballot and received 567 votes even though he did not participate.
Six Republicans had participated in the poll, pleading for support from voters who rolled into the site in dozens of buses and jammed candidate tents for music and free barbecue.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/08/1...es-straw-poll/

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Is Perry, George W. Bush on steroids?

As Andy Borowitz said, "Keep in mind: Rick Perry is how Texas dealt with its tremendous sense of loss when George W. Bush left the state."

Originally Posted by Deb C

I guess Bachmann and Perry will try to out christian one another. Ugh! How Ron Paul plays into all of this, I'm not sure.

Not hard to figure out if you are paying attention. It would appear that there is a sizable anti-war movement inside the Republican Party, those of you who were around during the sixties and seventies can really appreciate the irony of this, and they are mostly youngsters who also like the Libertarian approach to government and economics. We have been doing big government for a long time now and it doesn't appear to work all that well so it doesn't surprise me that many of them would like to change course.

Originally Posted by Galen

Not hard to figure out if you are paying attention. It would appear that there is a sizable anti-war movement inside the Republican Party, those of you who were around during the sixties and seventies can really appreciate the irony of this, and they are mostly youngsters who also like the Libertarian approach to government and economics. We have been doing big government for a long time now and it doesn't appear to work all that well so it doesn't surprise me that many of them would like to change course.

The only way in which the Republican Party is ever going to go libertarian is if the GOP is marginalized and then merges with the Libertarian Party.

The economic philosophy of the GOP is undeniably "Socialism for the Rich", and this combines with militarism and religious fundamentalism, none of which is compatible with libertarianism. The Republican Party has become an authoritarian-conservative party much like the Franco-era Falange in Spain.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Is Perry, George W. Bush on steroids?

He's a religious-nut version of Reagan.

Originally Posted by Galen

Not hard to figure out if you are paying attention. It would appear that there is a sizable anti-war movement inside the Republican Party, those of you who were around during the sixties and seventies can really appreciate the irony of this, and they are mostly youngsters who also like the Libertarian approach to government and economics. We have been doing big government for a long time now and it doesn't appear to work all that well so it doesn't surprise me that many of them would like to change course.

Dream on.

Too may well connected corporatists are making money off of the MIComplex.
The wars we're borrowing billions from China to fight aren't going anywhere.

government intrusion in people's lives.

Well, an original statement there.
How in the world do politicians get away with junk like this over and over again. It shows lots of Americans have a screw loose.

Perry.....a strong job creation record in Texas

Champion in the race to the bottom. Now we should make all of America into a third world country. Great solution.

Perry would really make the battle lines in our 4T clear. I just hope he goes for his solution of secession. Don't leave the door open on your way out.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

Shallower and stupider

Than Bush? That would be pretty hard, but we'll see.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

The only way in which the Republican Party is ever going to go libertarian is if the GOP is marginalized and then merges with the Libertarian Party.

This has happened before but it is clear that you aren't familiar with what is now called the Old Right from before the Second World War and the Cold War. It was much closer to what is now called libertarian than has been seen from either major party since. The GOP will go where is members want to and Ron Paul is doing much better this time around. It should be obvious to anyone with a clue that the trends that have been in place for about the last half century are reaching their end. It seems unreasonable to expect both major parties to remain as they are during a fourth turning.

In a time of crisis I would expect people in general to turn away from the positions that the Republicans and Democrats have been holding for decades now in favor of a long standing but minority position in each party. In the case of the Republican Party we have the rise of the Tea Party and Ron Paul which took first and second in the recent Iowa Straw poll. This could signal the beginning of a shift in the membership of the Republican party in a more libertarian direction over the objections of the current establishment. So far I am unable to see any signal of a similar shift in the Democratic party which seems odd since that usually indicates an organization that may be unable to evolve, which would be bad for the Democratic party in the long run.

Tim Pawlenty's out of the contest for 2012 GOP Nomination.

Originally Posted by SF Chronicle

Pawlenty told supporters on a conference call Sunday morning that he would announce on ABC's "This Week"
that he was ending his campaign after a disappointing finish in the Iowa straw poll on Saturday.

Prince

Originally Posted by Galen

This has happened before but it is clear that you aren't familiar with what is now called the Old Right from before the Second World War and the Cold War. It was much closer to what is now called libertarian than has been seen from either major party since. The GOP will go where is members want to and Ron Paul is doing much better this time around. It should be obvious to anyone with a clue that the trends that have been in place for about the last half century are reaching their end. It seems unreasonable to expect both major parties to remain as they are during a fourth turning.

The Right that existed before the Great Depression was no monolith -- which was hardly a surprise in view of the regional polarization that then existed. The Republican Right was pro-industry and not particularly racist toward blacks (but it was unsympathetic to non-WASP populations in the North); it really was tied to the Party of Lincoln. The Democratic Right still had a powerful attachment to the ways of the Old South, and though empathetic to non-WASP populations in the North (in fact that was where the Democratic Party got the bulk of its Northern support), and it was very agrarian. Southern Democrats and Northern Democrats got along with each other largely because they rarely met. They did meet in large numbers in World War II and then got along due to shared dangers and a very common interest. After World War they started to know what they could dislike about each other. (If anything I can make the case that what caused segregation to die was that Northerners discovered Florida and New Orleans and saw segregationism in action and its fullest ugliness on the town-to-town highways of the pre-Interstate era. Elderly Lost and GI grandparents told their Boomer and late-wave Silent grandkids about separate toilets and eating facilities in Ku Kluxistan, and the kids were even more appalled than the grandparents).

In fact, the identity of the political parties remained largely intact through the Crisis of 1940. It wasn't until the 1960s and 1970s (the Boom Awakening) that the southern Democrats and northern Democrats broke -- on race. Northern Democrats embraced what would have been Republican voters before the Great Depression -- southern blacks. But southern blacks did not vote in large numbers between Reconstrction and the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

In a time of crisis I would expect people in general to turn away from the positions that the Republicans and Democrats have been holding for decades now in favor of a long standing but minority position in each party. In the case of the Republican Party we have the rise of the Tea Party and Ron Paul which took first and second in the recent Iowa Straw poll. This could signal the beginning of a shift in the membership of the Republican party in a more libertarian direction over the objections of the current establishment. So far I am unable to see any signal of a similar shift in the Democratic party which seems odd since that usually indicates an organization that may be unable to evolve, which would be bad for the Democratic party in the long run.

It is far too early to make such a prediction. First, the political alignment to which we are most familiar is not 'decades old' unless one means four decades, when Dixiecrat Democrats started to become Republicans in the aftermath of blacks taking over the Democratic Party in the South and liberal Republicans becoming Democrats. Practices that begin in an Unraveling and even an Awakening Era are particularly vulnerable in a Crisis Era. Surely you will concede that the bad business practices that led to the financial meltdown of the 2007-2008 must die much as the speculative innovations of the mid-1920s died. The last 4T stripped whatever appeal there had been to colonial adventures and critically weakened the sordid theories of eugenics. Female suffrage and the benign reforms of the Progressive era continued in America, and in the aftermath of the Second World War the US imposed those upon wartime enemies. Colonial adventures and racist theories were out of the question for Germany, Italy, and Japan.

Pure Libertarianism has never had much mass appeal, and in a time of economic hardship, libertarian economics would likely make things far worse in the short run. It's hard to imagine any elite long holding power with an appeal that people easily translate as "Suffer for my greed!" without either giving in or turning to repression that negates every tenet of libertarianism. The Tea Party Movement can still be understood as a political fad, and any veneer of populism is as fake as a Hollywood stage set. People who supported the agenda of the Tea Party Movement with nothing more than their votes have begun to realize that they have been had. If I am to connect the issue of questionable education -- people who understand the economic motivations of economic elites, know how words can be distorted into lies in themselves (George Orwell strikes again!), and how flexible symbols can be seem not to have fallen for it. (Some may have been perpetrators, but those are the well-heeled wire-pullers. A sophisticated education with no morals is as dangerous as complete ignorance).

I am going to make one prediction here: the Multiversity that appeared in the 1960s will perish. From that came such perversities as values-free and even culture-free education. "Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Western Civ has got to go!" has left us with 'educated' people who want nothing more than "Sex & drugs & rock-n-roll" with some bureaucratic power and material comfort added, and nobody needs any advanced education to want that. Such "Dead White Males" as Socrates, Leonardo, Shakespeare, Bach, Rousseau, Tolstoy, and Freud remain relevant. Sure, you can add some dead people who aren't quite white (Pushkin) or aren't white at all (Hokusai, Ellington), and some who aren't male (Elizabeth Barrett Browning)... but you get the general idea. Someone who knows the piano concertos of Mozart might still need air conditioning (especially if stranded in Texas) and still have a sex drive, but surely has less need for the fraudluent "Good Life" achieved only through the swinish behavior characteristic of the pigs in Animal Farm. (Oh, yes... George Orwell is one of those necessary Dead White Males!) Youth who are to be the prospective leaders of our society as politicians and professionals need extensive exposure to those Dead White Males (and others). People who got the classical liberal-arts education knew that there were things not to be done to others even if one got huge rewards for it and had the support of powerful people for doing so.

Human goodness is no certainty. If nobody teaches it and nothing reinforces it, it then disappears an impediment to corruption, cruelty, selfishness, and destructive greed.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

I am going to make one prediction here: the Multiversity that appeared in the 1960s will perish. From that came such perversities as values-free and even culture-free education. "Hey! Hey! Ho! Ho! Western Civ has got to go!" has left us with 'educated' people who want nothing more than "Sex & drugs & rock-n-roll" with some bureaucratic power and material comfort added, and nobody needs any advanced education to want that. Such "Dead White Males" as Socrates, Leonardo, Shakespeare, Bach, Rousseau, Tolstoy, and Freud remain relevant. Sure, you can add some dead people who aren't quite white (Pushkin) or aren't white at all (Hokusai, Ellington), and some who aren't male (Elizabeth Barrett Browning)... but you get the general idea. Someone who knows the piano concertos of Mozart might still need air conditioning (especially if stranded in Texas) and still have a sex drive, but surely has less need for the fraudluent "Good Life" achieved only through the swinish behavior characteristic of the pigs in Animal Farm. (Oh, yes... George Orwell is one of those necessary Dead White Males!) Youth who are to be the prospective leaders of our society as politicians and professionals need extensive exposure to those Dead White Males (and others). People who got the classical liberal-arts education knew that there were things not to be done to others even if one got huge rewards for it and had the support of powerful people for doing so.

Human goodness is no certainty. If nobody teaches it and nothing reinforces it, it then disappears an impediment to corruption, cruelty, selfishness, and destructive greed.

Do you think that the huge strides made by the activists in the sixties, like desegregation of public school education, will take a step backwards?

I was fascinated by the tremendous response Ron Paul got the other night to his attacks on US foreign policy. Something big may be happening about that. . .

Originally Posted by Deb C

Do you think that the huge strides made by the activists in the sixties, like desegregation of public school education, will take a step backwards?

That is unlikely to be reversed. The valid achievements of society (among which include technological advances) get little tested. A prime example: the TR-era progressive reforms, direct election of US Senators, and a women's right to vote were not challenged. Sure, there are some crackpots who believe that bans on child labor compromise the "right to contract" that Big Business supposedly needs for maximal 'freedom'. (Don't fool yourself -- conflicts between freedoms exist).

The only way in which desegregation of schools would be reversed is if America underwent a racist revolution of the sort that Germany underwent in its last completed Crisis... with a false Regeneracy that leads to a calamity similar to that that Germany experienced in 1945. I don't see that happening here. It's the bad stuff that gets smashed, and I can most likely see most of the worst features of modern American life -- most of which came into existence in the mid-1960s or later -- being cast off.

I predict that we will rely less on overpriced university educations of suspect value and more upon trade schools to prepare people for adulthood, and that 'college education' will be more classicist in its effort to uplift the Best and Brightest. We are also likely to refocus the economy as a whole away from the devouring of natural resources. Of "Sex & Drugs & Rock-n-Roll"... sex will be unavoidable, drugs will be demonized even more fully, and popular culture will be sanitized. That's much what happened in the 1930s and early 1940s with sex, drugs, and jazz.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

That is unlikely to be reversed. The valid achievements of society (among which include technological advances) get little tested. A prime example: the TR-era progressive reforms, direct election of US Senators, and a women's right to vote were not challenged. Sure, there are some crackpots who believe that bans on child labor compromise the "right to contract" that Big Business supposedly needs for maximal 'freedom'. (Don't fool yourself -- conflicts between freedoms exist).

The only way in which desegregation of schools would be reversed is if America underwent a racist revolution of the sort that Germany underwent in its last completed Crisis... with a false Regeneracy that leads to a calamity similar to that that Germany experienced in 1945. I don't see that happening here. It's the bad stuff that gets smashed, and I can most likely see most of the worst features of modern American life -- most of which came into existence in the mid-1960s or later -- being cast off.

I predict that we will rely less on overpriced university educations of suspect value and more upon trade schools to prepare people for adulthood, and that 'college education' will be more classicist in its effort to uplift the Best and Brightest. We are also likely to refocus the economy as a whole away from the devouring of natural resources. Of "Sex & Drugs & Rock-n-Roll"... sex will be unavoidable, drugs will be demonized even more fully, and popular culture will be sanitized. That's much what happened in the 1930s and early 1940s with sex, drugs, and jazz.

Resegregation of public schools has largely happened in much of the country and is now allowed--indeed, encouraged--by our Supreme Court. In fact, in much of the country desegregation never really took place, thanks to housing segregation all over the place, and the "Christian school" movement in the south. There were no white kids in the public school my son taught in for two years in the Mississippi Delta and that situation is very common. We won't have legal segregation again, no--but we have de facto all right. I'm not saying there aren't kids getting an integrated education, but they are, if you'll pardon the expression, the minority.

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

Resegregation of public schools has largely happened in much of the country and is now allowed--indeed, encouraged--by our Supreme Court. In fact, in much of the country desegregation never really took place, thanks to housing segregation all over the place, and the "Christian school" movement in the south. There were no white kids in the public school my son taught in for two years in the Mississippi Delta and that situation is very common. We won't have legal segregation again, no--but we have de facto all right. I'm not saying there aren't kids getting an integrated education, but they are, if you'll pardon the expression, the minority.

I suspect a lot of the hatred against public schools by the Right comes from Desegregation.

Regarding Rick Perry--some years ago a story circulated that his wife had left him termporarily after finding him in bed with a guy. I googled and found plenty of references to this rumor in general although nothing as specific as I remembered. Major sites have discussed this quite recently. It does seem as though a lot of our politicians and mega-ministers who do so much praying have a lot to pray about, from their perspective, that is. . . .