Originally Posted by TeddyR

Our most popular leaders have appealed to our nationalistic spirit and attracted that great moderate middle: TR, FDR, Reagan.

I'd add Lincoln & Jackson to that list.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

I'd add Lincoln & Jackson to that list.

~Chas'88

... and Nixon pre-Watergate.

Originally Posted by TeddyR

... and Nixon pre-Watergate.

Which is why his "corrupt"-ness was so demoralizing to the public.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Brian Rush

I'd say if the Transcendentals and Missionaries can be remembered well, we will be, too -- eventually. Right now, it's too soon, because we're still noisily alive.

But that's the problem, isn't it. With the exception of the martyred Abe Lincoln, most of the other Transies are not remembered well, because they led us into the Civil War.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

But that's the problem, isn't it. With the exception of the martyred Abe Lincoln, most of the other Transies are not remembered well, because they led us into the Civil War.

Outside of the arts of course...

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Outside of the arts of course...

~Chas'88

And it is because of the arts and pretty much every other aspect of culture (technology, film, music youth generation) that the Boomers will be remembered well.

Unless we all die due to some boomer pushing a button...

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Millenials do not lean strongly left, at least not if you compare them to Boomers at a similar age. I'm closer in age to them than you are, and I interact with plenty of them in real life, not just on the internet. Most of them, like most people in their 20s, don't give a crap about politics and are very unsettled in their views. They are heavily influenced by a pop culture that leans heavily left, but that's a different thing. People grow up and start thinking for themselves eventually. And it is already happening with Millenials.

I agree with this. At least with the fact that millennials do not strongly lean anything.

Originally Posted by TeddyR

Nor are the Republicans the right. Some are, just as some Dems are the left.

The sweet spot of American politics are those of us in the middle - independents, most Dems and many GOP.

That is why we aren't going to have a revolution here. Even at this time of extremes, we are still the most moderate nation in the world politically. What I mean is that the differences between out major political parties are minor compared to any other democratic countries. I am open to any examples that prove this wrong, I can't think of any.

We are also highly nationalistic, even jingoistic at times.

Our most popular leaders have appealed to our nationalistic spirit and attracted that great moderate middle: TR, FDR, Reagan.

Unlike some of the people here, are I am still very optimistic about us as a people. Even if I had never heard of S&H, I would predict will will unite again and the fringes will be quieted again.

Moderation when it comes to politics is overrated. What it has meant in practice is a system where we have continually cut taxes and increased spending, while using pork barrel projects to grease the wheels of compromise. We have reached a point where we have to decide whether to aspire to the kind of European model that is currently collapsing before our eyes, or to seriously cut government spending. That decision will be made for us if the continual printing of money makes the dollar worthless.

There is also one key point that has to be understood about Boomer Republicans/conservatives. Regardless of how much they throw around Reagan's name, they are not Reaganites. Their formative template was Richard Nixon. I would go so far as to call George W. Bush a Nixon Republican. Karl Rove first got involved in politics campaigning for Nixon. Boomers on the right give lip service to limited government, but they're mostly not serious about it. What gets them really fired up is national security, patriotism and the military, in reaction to their Boomer peers on the left having utterly desecrated those things during the Viet Nam War. They gave social issues a shot for a while, but basically surrendered with a whimper -- although the events of the last decade have obviously pushed those issues to the side, and opposition to abortion is actually increasing. When it comes to economics and the role of government, their thinking begins and ends with tax cuts. The current candidates are trying to walk the minefield of spending cuts, and we'll see how that ultimately works out. But George W. Bush was a good example of Boomer conservatism, which is not the kind of conservatism espoused by Ronald Reagan. The current movement towards the Tea Party agenda is much more like Reagan.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Moderation when it comes to politics is overrated.

And, let me guess the rest: "....extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice ....moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

That went over well (not) with the American people. Perhaps proving my point about moderation vs. extremism.

Originally Posted by TeddyR

And, let me guess the rest: "....extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice ....moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

That went over well (not) with the American people. Perhaps proving my point about moderation vs. extremism.

Again, part of the problem is that people on the extremes like to paint a picture of "moderates" as a bunch of wishy-washy centrists who seek compromise in everything, who are principled in nothing and who take a "middle ground" position on every issue. And that's definitely not always the case, and probably isn't the case even most of the time.

I think painting this picture of political moderates makes it easier to justify their extremism to themselves and to others.

Originally Posted by ziggyX65

Again, part of the problem is that people on the extremes like to paint a picture of "moderates" as a bunch of wishy-washy centrists who seek compromise in everything, who are principled in nothing and who take a "middle ground" position on every issue. And that's definitely not always the case, and probably isn't the case even most of the time.

I think painting this picture of political moderates makes it easier to justify their extremism to themselves and to others.

Some of it depends on the issue. What is defined as "extreme" is merely that which conventional wisdom deems outside of the mainstream. And often that conventional wisdom is manufactured by people who are themselves extremists, i.e. the media.

In some cases there is nothing but opinion. But in a situation where one person says 2+2=4 and another says 2+2=6, the correct answer is not 5.

Originally Posted by millennialX

And it is because of the arts and pretty much every other aspect of culture (technology, film, music youth generation) that the Boomers will be remembered well.

Unless we all die due to some boomer pushing a button...

I agree completely.

Originally Posted by TeddyR

And, let me guess the rest: "....extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice ....moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

That went over well (not) with the American people. Perhaps proving my point about moderation vs. extremism.

It didn't go well at the climax (and near the end of) a High. Now it's mainstream Republicanism!!!!! And by 1968, it was mainstream leftism. Barry was just ahead of his time!

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

It didn't go well at the climax (and near the end of) a High. Now it's mainstream Republicanism!!!!! And by 1968, it was mainstream leftism. Barry was just ahead of his time!

True, although he was a man of science and reason. He strongly opposed mixing religion with politics. He was also fairly liberal on many social issues: abortion, gay rights, etc....

As you know, he was a hawk too. If not for that, he might make for a pretty good model of a post-Boomer GOP with less focus on social issues, but a Tea Party strain of small government. Also, he was a civic.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

The current movement towards the Tea Party agenda is much more like Reagan.

Reagan was a genius at saying one thing and then doing the complete opposite.

One of the tenets of Tea Partyism is not raising taxes. Reagan raised taxes plenty. He also lowered them, but when times called for it, he raised them (mostly to the detriment of the middle class or at least not as favorably as he lowered them for the wealthiest Americans).

Reagan certainly wasn't afraid to push up the deficit, another TP issue. Federal spending via military spending went through the roof during Reagan's tenure.

Reagan's talk sounds like the TP, his walk doesn't though.

Originally Posted by millennialX

And it is because of the arts and pretty much every other aspect of culture (technology, film, music youth generation) that the Boomers will be remembered well.

Unless we all die due to some boomer pushing a button...

Yes, the arts is the face of Boomers. But I think we are biased MillieX. Cheers.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

As a member of the hardened Boomer left, Brian Rush is merely surveying with pleasure the irreparable damage they've wrought. I don't think he cares about being admired.

Racism, sexism, homophobia, crippling authoritarian theology -- I for one am glad they've all been irreparably damaged, if not outright destroyed.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

Obama did not tack to the right in office, nor did he attempt to be bi-partisan. The left is in monumental denial about that fact. He began losing support when the Democrats rammed Obamacare through Congress, and his decline has accelerated as his policies have manifestly failed to "stimulate" the economy. Millenials are disillusioned because they don't have jobs.

Obama and the Democrats began losing support when they didn't take the bull by the horns and at least try to pass a bigger stimulus bill and a better health care bill (They didn't lose me because I knew what they were up against, and I knew the GOP presented, then and now, a much worse alternative).

Originally Posted by James50

Nice post and articulate as always. However I am amazed at this final pat on the back. I know of no public evidence that the boomers are admired in any way at all right now.

James50

Perhaps not in politics. But culturally and artistically? Sure they are.

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Yes, the arts is the face of Boomers. But I think we are biased MillieX. Cheers.

This is true.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

Perhaps not in politics. But culturally and artistically? Sure they are.

Ah yes, the music. The 60s will never die!!

James50

Originally Posted by James50

Ah yes, the music. The 60s will never die!!

James50

I'm serious. My core Millennial children love 60's music.

About extremism and moderation (and this relates to the current election):

Normally -- if our political system were working -- it ought to be possible to triangulate between the two parties to a position more or less at the national center. But there are two problems with that.

First problem is the corrupting influence of corporate money, which wouldn't be such a problem if it were only one party that was corrupted in this way. It is, however, both of them. Since the nation is lining up into a big old class war about now, that puts both parties solidly to the right of the national center on economic issues. The Republicans mostly more so than the Democrats, and there are a few Democrats (not many) that seem to be exceptions -- the president NOT being one of those exceptions -- but nonetheless triangulating between the two parties will achieve a point well to the right of the people's will on economic matters. In fact, hewing to the center of the Democratic Party will do that.

Second problem is a weird outcome of the Culture War, in which the GOP has become dominated by the religious right, which puts them to the right of center -- not a problem if the Democrats were similarly left of center on social issues but they aren't. They're all over the map. Democrats range from quite liberal on social issues to very conservative. (Remember the dustup during the final stages of health care reform when a pro-life Democrat tried to block the bill in the House over abortion language?) What this means that, on social issues, triangulating not to somewhere between the parties but to the center of mass of the Democrats will put one just about at the national center.

All of this is part of the failure of the current civic order and yet another sign that it desperately needs fixing. We be 4T for sure.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

I'm serious. My core Millennial children love 60's music.

I am not sure I would say they love it, but they sure know all of it. Several years ago when my youngest was about 16, I took him and some of his friends on a road trip to Colorado to do some camping. On the way, I never will forget when "My Girl" by the Temptations came on the radio, that they sang along and knew every word. This was about 2003 and the song was famous in 1964 so they were singing it nearly 40 years later. When I was sixteen in 1966, this would have been the equivalent of my knowing and singing a song from 1926.

Can anyone sing me a song from 1926?

Oh yea, and then there are the Beatles, probably in the top 10 melody writers of the last 100 years.

James50

Originally Posted by James50

I am not sure I would say they love it, but they sure know all of it. Several years ago when my youngest was about 16, I took him and some of his friends on a road trip to Colorado to do some camping. On the way, I never will forget when "My Girl" by the Temptations came on the radio, that they sang along and knew every word. This was about 2003 and the song was famous in 1964 so they were singing it nearly 40 years later. When I was sixteen in 1966, this would have been the equivalent of my knowing and singing a song from 1926.

Can anyone sing me a song from 1926?

Oh yea, and then there are the Beatles, probably in the top 10 melody writers of the last 100 years.

James50

I'll do you one better, I know a song from 1919, but was used in 1926 as a Wheaties jingle:

Jazz Baby - YouTube clip of the original; YouTube clip of how I know it

So in 1967 it's possible, if you were interested in a particular MGM movie musical, for a Boomer to have been aware of a song from the 1920s/1910s.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by millennialX

And it is because of the arts and pretty much every other aspect of culture (technology, film, music youth generation) that the Boomers will be remembered well.

Unless we all die due to some boomer pushing a button...

Originally Posted by TeddyR

And, let me guess the rest: "....extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice ....moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!"

That went over well (not) with the American people. Perhaps proving my point about moderation vs. extremism.

Originally Posted by millennialX

I agree with this. At least with the fact that millennials do not strongly lean anything.

Originally Posted by James50

I am not sure I would say they love it, but they sure know all of it. Several years ago when my youngest was about 16, I took him and some of his friends on a road trip to Colorado to do some camping. On the way, I never will forget when "My Girl" by the Temptations came on the radio, that they sang along and knew every word. This was about 2003 and the song was famous in 1964 so they were singing it nearly 40 years later. When I was sixteen in 1966, this would have been the equivalent of my knowing and singing a song from 1926.

Can anyone sing me a song from 1926?

Oh yea, and then there are the Beatles, probably in the top 10 melody writers of the last 100 years.

James50

Yes, James, I could. And so could you, probably. Here are the mid-1920s top tens from several years. They've had staying power!

1924

05-01-1924 (05) Sleep - Fred Warings Pennsylvanians
26-01-1924 (01) Charleston - Arthur Gibbs & His Gang
16-02-1924 (06) It Aint Gonna Rain No Mo - Wendell Hall
01-03-1924 (04) Linger Awhile - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra
29-03-1924 (05) Somebody Stole My Gal - Ted Weems & His Orchestra
24-05-1924 (06) California Here I Come - Al Jolson
19-07-1924 (02) Spain - Isham Jones & His Orchestra
02-08-1924 (05) Whatll I Do - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra
06-09-1924 (05) It Had To Be You - Isham Jones & His Orchestra
11-10-1924 (05) Memory Lane - Fred Warings Pennsylvanians
15-11-1924 (03) I Wonder Whats Become Of Sally - Al Jolson
06-12-1924 (05) Somebody Loves Me - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra

>> nach oben





USA



Datum (Wochen auf Nr.1) Titel - Interpret

1925

08-01-1925 (03) All Alone - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra
10-01-1925 (05) All Alone - Al Jolson
28-02-1925 (03) Tea For Two - Marion Harris
21-03-1925 (02) All Alone - John Mccormack
04-04-1925 (07) Ill See You In My Dreams - Isham Jones & His Orchestra
23-05-1925 (01) O Katherina - Ted Lewis & His Band
30-05-1925 (12) Prisoners Song - Vernon Dalhart
04-07-1925 (05) Sweet Georgia Brown - Ben Bernie & His Orchestra
01-08-1925 (05) If You Knew Susie - Eddie Cantor
12-09-1925 (07) Yes Sir Thats My Baby - Gene Austin
31-10-1925 (03) Oh How I Miss You Tonight - Ben Selvin & His Orchestra
21-11-1925 (04) Manhattan - Ben Selvin & His Orchestra
19-12-1925 (01) Remember - Isham Jones & His Orchestra

>> nach oben





USA



1926

13-02-1926 (06) Who - George Olsen & His Orchestra
27-03-1926 (04) Sleepy Time Gal - Ben Bernie & His Orchestra
17-04-1926 (02) Im Sitting On Top Of The World - Al Jolson
08-05-1926 (03) Always - George Olsen & His Orchestra
22-05-1926 (01) Five Foot Two Eyes Of Blue - Gene Austin
05-06-1926 (02) Always - Vincent Lopez & His Orchestra
19-06-1926 (02) Gimme A Lil Kiss Will Ya Huh - Whispering Jack Smith
03-07-1926 (11) Valencia - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra
04-09-1926 (03) Bye Bye Blackbird - Gene Austin
02-10-1926 (02) When The Red Red Robin Comes Bob Bob Bobbin Along - Al Jolson
16-10-1926 (06) Baby Face - Jan Garber & His Orchestra
27-11-1926 (02) Breezin Along With The Breeze - Johnny Marvin
11-12-1926 (04) Birth Of The Blues - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra



>> nach oben






USA



1927

08-01-1927 (08) In A Litle Spanish Town - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra
05-03-1927 (05) Some Of These Days - Sophie Tucker
09-04-1927 (03) Tonight You Belong To Me - Gene Austin
30-04-1927 (02) Blue Skies - Ben Selvin & His Orchestra
14-05-1927 (04) Aint She Sweet - Ben Bernie & His Orchestra
11-06-1927 (03) At Sundown When Love Is Calling Me Home - George Olsen & His Orchestra
02-07-1927 (05) Two Black Crows Parts 1 2 The Early Bird Catches The Worm - Moran &
Mack
06-08-1927 (01) Forgive Me - Gene Austin
13-08-1927 (04) Me And My Shadow - Whispering Jack Smith
10-09-1927 (03) Russian Lullaby - Roger Wolfe Kahn & His Orchestra
01-10-1927 (07) Charmaine - Guy Lombardo & His Royal Canadians
19-11-1927 (01) My Blue Heaven - Paul Whiteman & His Orchestra
26-11-1927 (03) Ida Sweet As Apple Cider - Red Nichols & His Five Pennies
17-12-1927 (13) My Blue Heaven - Gene Austin