Understatement alert. I'd argue the complete catalogs of Lennon, McCartney and Harrison are unmatched.Originally Posted by James50
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Understatement alert. I'd argue the complete catalogs of Lennon, McCartney and Harrison are unmatched.
Of course, the Beatles, except for Harrison, were all Silent.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"
My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/
The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903
Reagan's presidency is a perfect example of what I was talking about. In his first two years he cut taxes and spending, and started getting tough with the Soviets. The voters decided it was a little too extreme, and voted in a Democrat-controlled Congress that he had to contend with for the rest of his two terms. He admitted and lamented his failure to reduce the deficit in his farewell address. Your suggestion that he was somehow phony is not supportable. He got what he could, and while he accomplished a lot, he did not get the federal budget under control. His support for increased military spending can be blamed for that, but his goals of pressuring the Soviets and reducing the deficit were at odds with each other. So he succeeded in reviving the economy and defeating the Soviets, not bad accomplishments, but failed at reducing the deficit. Nobody's perfect. And the voters had their say. They liked tax cuts, they didn't like spending cuts. And it has been that way for a long time.
Last edited by JustPassingThrough; 11-11-2011 at 10:57 PM.
S&H agreed with you on that. But of course they considered the Silents to be the "leaders" of the Awakening, with Boomers showing up for the enthusiasm & numbers support. Which is something I think people should take into account when they argue that the Boomer dates should begin earlier than 1943--they're trying to incorporate the leaders with the field soldiers, while S&H says there's a difference between the two--which I agree with.
Don't believe me? Watch this program on the Silent generation from the 1990s where S&H blatantly state it.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
I could argue Reagan all day (of course he was a phony, he was a politican and an actor), but to your original point that Reagan was similar to the Tea Party. Since the TP is anti-tax and Reagan raised taxes, he was in fact not TP material. Reagan was pragmatic and did what needed to be done.
Why was it ok for Reagan to run up the budget for military, but not Obama for economic stimulus? Both are cases of Presidents trying to cure the issue du jour.
In any case, Reagan, not a TP guy. Can't be raising taxes and get the blessing of that strange Norquist character.
The House was Democratic-controlled throughout Reagan's two terms. The Senate was Republican briefly, 1981-82.
Given this, it is of course reasonable to apply part of the blame to Congress for the Reagan deficits, but let's be clear on exactly what that means. Reagan never submitted a budget to Congress that was even remotely balanced. Congress could have passed a balanced budget, but to do so it would have had to override the president's request, and potentially even his veto. Considering that a balanced budget that was acceptable to the voters would have required either increased taxes or cuts in military spending or both (probably both), it's very unlikely that Congress and the president could have come to an agreement.
It was phony on someone's part, although I'm not sure Reagan himself was lying. By the time he left office, he was clearly suffering from the early stages of Alzheimer's disease, and could well have been merely confused. Be that as it may, there was never any serious intention on the part of his administration to balance the budget; in fact, high deficits have become SOP under Republican administrations ever since, and I believe that is by design. High deficits accomplish two things for the Republicans. They allow rich people to lend money to the government at interest rather than having it taken in taxes, and so amount to a transfer of wealth from the taxpayers to the investors, and, by increasing service on the debt, deficits also squeeze out room in the budget for any government spending that benefits the middle class or poor.He admitted and lamented his failure to reduce the deficit in his farewell address. Your suggestion that he was somehow phony is not supportable.
Yeah, well, those two "accomplishments" of Reagan's are pure illusion. The end of the OPEC stranglehold revived the economy, not Reagan's policies, and nowhere else in all of history has any national leader ever been credited by anyone of causing the fall of a foreign government by spending a lot on military forces without using them. The idea that "Reagan won the Cold War" is a remarkable example of the will to believe, in total absence of evidence, by true believers.His support for increased military spending can be blamed for that, but his goals of pressuring the Soviets and reducing the deficit were at odds with each other. So he succeeded in reviving the economy and defeating the Soviets, not bad accomplishments, but failed at reducing the deficit. Nobody's perfect.
The idea that Reagan caused the Soviet Union to go bankrupt ranks right up there with the delusion that the Soviet Union DID go bankrupt. It's on the same plane with the idea that the whole world except for the U.S. was devastated by World War II. It's one of those ideas without any factual basis, that is easily disproven if one is willing to a very little digging for facts, that is still believed because those emotionally invested in it never do that digging.
Reagan accomplished nothing tangible. He did, however, lift the nation's spirits in completely non-tangible ways, restoring a sense of optimism that had been lacking in the late Awakening. In that sense, he was a perfect leader for the transition to the 3T.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"
My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/
The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903
Is that fringe a small, loud, but ultimately ephemeral and irrelevant lot... or is that the visible part of the iceberg? I am tempted to see the latter. The liberal-to-socialist activism of OWS addresses widespread, commonplace concerns. No generation has faced such hard times of inescapable nastiness at this stage of life since the GI generation did in the 1930s (Great Depression) and early 1940s (World War II). Millennial distress in the form of narrowing opportunities and increasing responsibilities has caught up with the American Dream. The American economic system now has as its focus that people must pay off elites just to get a chance to survive by working for those elites. The political system has reflected that between 2000 and 2006... and since the beginning of this year, only more intensely.
I see the student loans and the absence of jobs that people need for paying them off without going destitute. Thirty years ago the low-paying jobs that young Boomer and X adults took as stopgaps at least offered the promise of economic advancement; working a counter in a fast-food place or hustling merchandise in a shopping mall came with promises of economic advancement for the meritorious who worked themselves raw for a pittance in the here-and-now. Student loans were not then the burden that they are now. The gritty jobs of the 1980s were places in which to either prove oneself in a growing industry or at the least mark time until one got something better -- like factory work. That is over. Youth who worked their way through college in part by working in ill-paid, menial "service" jobs often must hold onto those as all that is available after graduation.
Oh, yeah? I took a look at the pattern of age and voting in 2008 (sorry, I don't have the study at my fingertips), and I notice that the youngest voters were more liberal-leaning than all other generations in almost all states. It might not have been well-marked in the Dakotas (very much a farm state where kids are often chips off the old block if they stay where they come from) and was contradicted in Georgia (heavy military presence, and white soldiers tend to lean conservative)... but all in all the pattern could be amazing. Texas, which went by more than 10% for John McCain on the whole, went about 10% for Obama on the whole that year among voters under 35.Millenials do not lean strongly left, at least not if you compare them to Boomers at a similar age. I'm closer in age to them than you are, and I interact with plenty of them in real life, not just on the internet. Most of them, like most people in their 20s, don't give a crap about politics and are very unsettled in their views. They are heavily influenced by a pop culture that leans heavily left, but that's a different thing. People grow up and start thinking for themselves eventually. And it is already happening with Millenials.
Sure, most Millennial youth are far from being political activists and don't put politics above all else. What is new about that? But note very well: Millennials are not Boomers. If they are decidedly to the left of older generations, then that is because the Right has offered them little worth defending. Class privilege? Only if one is already part of the privileged elite, which means that one is decidedly not part of the "99%". Promises of pie-in-the-sky-when-you-die in return for deprivations in This World? Millennial adults seem to turn away from fundamentalist Protestantism at the first opportunity. Wars for profit, entrenched corruption, and the erosion of a liberal tradition that goes back at least to the American Revolution? Any generation that fails to resist that demonstrates a sort of gutter conservatism that leads to unredeemable and inescapable rot and ultimate doom.
Maybe Boomers are acting as mentors to Millennial young adults... but that is very different from Boomers rejecting the GI-built world altogether and coming up with such slogans as "Don't trust anyone over 30!" The Millennial Generation is much more like GIs of like age.
Culture? Like GIs at a similar age, Millennials have yet to find a cultural voice. Even though Generation X will no longer have any members in their 20s at the end of the year, they still dominate the pop culture... and Generation X is anything but left-wing in its politics. Even hip-hop and rap show an almost conservative ethos in the crass materialism of the performers. Illustration: the GI Generation didn't start its signature contribution to popular culture (Big Band) until the oldest GIs were deep into their thirties. Sure, Big Band music is probably the highest-quality and most refined popular music ever (unless you are to consider such figures as Mozart and Beethoven exemplars of 'popular culture').
If you are closer to the Millennial Generation than I am in age -- I have taught lots of them in school, and what Howe and Strauss predicted about them fits well. So maybe your 'closeness' to them in age isn't so relevant. On the other side, I am closer in age to the GI Generation, and I paid attention to what they said. Proximity is not understanding or knowledge, anyway. I probably live closer to Cleveland than you do (about 200 miles away), but I don't pretend to know much about it. I have never been there, so if you live farther away from Cleveland than I do and know the city better, I may have just contradicted your contention that proximity itself creates knowledge.
What you say about the Millennial Generation doesn't simply run afoul of my experience; it also contradicts what Howe and Strauss said about the Generational Theory altogether. The latter causes me to question what you are doing here.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 11-11-2011 at 11:53 PM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
I'd say that Stephen King is the Edgar Allen Poe of his generation -- and (if not in political affiliation) Steven Spielberg is the D.W. Griffith of his.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Amen! Or is it "Beautiful!"Racism, sexism, homophobia, crippling authoritarian theology -- I for one am glad they've all been irreparably damaged, if not outright destroyed.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Feel like posting this on the Let pairing thread?
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
OK -- Tea for Two (1925)
Culturally and politically the 1920s were a slum of a decade much like the Double-Zero Decade -- and as for the economy, people were dancing atop a volcano about to erupt.
Dmitri Shostakovich wrote some interesting variations on this standard.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 11-11-2011 at 11:43 PM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
You know I definitely had him on my mind. There are many others, but he, Michael Crichton and Frank E. Peretti will stand the test of time in my book. Some of you might not have heard of Peretti, but he is an author who has created genuine supernatural thrillers in the Christian Fiction market (yes he first gained his audience during the tail end of the red awakening.)
Regarding other Boomers, no one will forget Oprah, Steve Jobs, Steven Spielberg, Madonna and Michael Jackson.
Last edited by millennialX; 11-11-2011 at 11:42 PM.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
I may have... but I couldn't figure whether Sir Winston Churchill was more like Abraham Lincoln or Frederick the Great. Pablo Picasso = Richard Wagner is awkward.Feel like posting this on the Let pairing thread?
~Chas'88
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
I have read many post claiming that Boomers have indoctrinated Millennials. That sounds deep, dark and conspiracy like...but all of a sudden I'm thinking, what a silly comment. Of course millennials may have learned a thing or two from Boomers. Boomers may have been their parents, after all!!!
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
Ah, ha!
Do It Again (1922)
Poor Butterfly (1916)
Rose of Washington Square (1920)
Baby Face (1926)
That's My Weakness Now (1927) - sung by 1904 cohort Helen Kane; a girl made popular by including "boop-boop-da-boop" in her song
The Girl Friend (1926) ; a 1929 film version of the song--look at those bell bottom pants! ; It was parodied in the 1950s by the Broadway hit: The Boy Friend
And just to be "fair" (that's for the Silents on the forum)
Ma Rainey's Black Bottom (1927) (re-mastered in 1965)
Quite agreed. I've often made the comparison. But then again what do you expect from the generational line ups? You have a Nomad generation trying to turn entertainment into a practical, easily replicable, & low cost enterprise; mixed with a Nomad/Civic cusper cohort that just wants to dance & feel good and look up to the Nomad generation emulating them ad nauseum. Add in Prophet owners/directors looking to maximize profits...Culturally and politically the 1920s were a slum of a decade much like the Double-Zero Decade -- and as for the economy, people were dancing atop a volcano about to erupt.
It's just a recipe for cultural disaster. Happy-upbeat cultural disaster, but still disaster.
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 11-12-2011 at 02:26 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
I know most of those. But "Tonight, you belong to me" is that old? I remember hearing it as if it were contemporary at one time, but can't remember when.
Schmaltzheimer's - failing memory for pop music.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."
"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.
A lot of Doo Wop drew upon old 1920s & 1930s tunes. Perhaps that's where you heard it? For example when you think Blue Moon, do you think of this version or this version?
Which makes me ponder... will the 2030s exhibit Xers & Millies trying to re-brand & sell a sanitized version of their youth culture to the teenage New Silents? And how many of them will sink their teeth into it thinking it's something new & different?
~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 11-12-2011 at 02:15 AM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
I just started reading Stephen King's new book, "11/23/63". It's about a man who is able to go back in time and stop JFK's assassination. (Although I haven't gotten that far in the book in yet.) But from what I understand about the book the world doesn't turn out all that great with JFK living. Apparently King spoke with a few different historians including, Doris Kerns Goodwin, to get plausible scenario of events that could happened if he didn't been assassinated.
Anyway, it's an intriguing concept and a bit of a departure from King's normal horror stories. If there is anyone else who has already read the book, don't tell me out it ends. I don't want any spoilers, but I would be happy to discuss it later after I've finished the book and discuss whether or not King's version of how history would have been changed is conceivable.
There's a typically Silent song from your youth, Pat, called "You Belong to Me," which was used in that great movie about Silent youth, The Last Picture Show. But it probably isn't the same song.
Schmaltzheier's? Do you know about Waldheimer's disease? That's when you get old and forget that you were a Nazi. . .
Last edited by KaiserD2; 11-12-2011 at 08:44 AM.
David Kaiser '47
My blog: History Unfolding
My book: The Road to Dallas: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy
An excellent column about a Republican strategy that .. . (crosses fingers. . .) the country may finally be tired of.
David Kaiser '47
My blog: History Unfolding
My book: The Road to Dallas: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy
The 20's will never die!!!
James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
In tonight's episode the gang is talking foreign affairs. Someone better fill in Herb Cain they aren't talking about his international business trips (insert rimshot).
I can't wait. Ubeky-beky-beky-beky stan.
Looking forward to watching.
Judging by my facebook wall everyone watches the debates and more are entertained, then angered or inspired.
Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer
I have to admit I haven't watched any of these debates.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"
My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/
The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903
I love alternate history scenarios, so I will have to find that book!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.
-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
