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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 195







Post#4851 at 12-02-2011 10:08 AM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
What do you get when lesser evil compromises with greater evil?
Boomers want to make everything into a moral struggle. Most of the rest of society is sick of it.

PW - you don't usually fall into this swamp. Your MMT essays are generally practical (although I could do with a little less of the "you are an idiot" phrasing.). I prefer that approach.

James50
Last edited by James50; 12-02-2011 at 10:20 AM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#4852 at 12-02-2011 10:27 AM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
The Tea Party was the major factor in the 2010 midterms.
Actually, it wasn't; it was a secondary factor and one thing it may have accomplished is to leave the Democrats in control of the Senate. The Republicans should have won Delaware, Colorado and Nevada, and if they had run more moderate candidates they would have.

The primary factor in the 2010 election was a boycott by the left intended to send the Democrats a message. This was done by what might be called proto-Occupy (Occupy hadn't started yet but it emerged from the same on-line base). The same on-line base also decided the 2008 election but in the other direction, when Millennials still had a naive faith in the Democratic Party.

Quote Originally Posted by James50
But how long can the Dems continue to dupe the public with their outdated ideologies, when more and more people are seeing the results they create in our government?
This is quite a misstatement (although a common one among conservatives) of the dynamic in the public's turning away from the Democrats last year. The Democrats' ideologies are not "outdated," they are deceptive -- the Democrats do not act on them. And nobody is seeing "the results they create in our government," because they are not being APPLIED in our government -- and we are seeing the result of THAT.

How long the Democrats can go on fooling the public is indeed a good question, but for a different reason than the one you stated.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
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Post#4853 at 12-02-2011 11:37 AM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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There are a lot of forums where this video clip could go. It shows Michele Bachmann talking about gay rights to a very generationally mixed group of Iowans, and it is, in my opinion, marvellously revealing.
Last edited by KaiserD2; 12-02-2011 at 11:41 AM.







Post#4854 at 12-02-2011 11:57 AM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
Boomers want to make everything into a moral struggle. Most of the rest of society is sick of it.

PW - you don't usually fall into this swamp. Your MMT essays are generally practical (although I could do with a little less of the "you are an idiot" phrasing.). I prefer that approach.

James50
When the GOP will only extend the payroll tax cut by eliminating federal workers and freezing their pay, to an MMTer, that is willfully dumber than shirt, and that is, for an MMTer, evil.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4855 at 12-02-2011 12:50 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
If either Gary Johnson or Ron Paul do run as an independent, it could spell serious trouble for the GOP if Romney wins the nomination - for in that case, enough white voters in states like Alabama and Mississippi could get siphoned off for the unthinkable to happen and Obama to actually carry such states.
I would suport Romney over a third party candidate. Although I like many of Ron Paul's positions, I would not vote for him as an independent candidate. Do you have any basis for your claim ?







Post#4856 at 12-02-2011 01:08 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
I would suport Romney over a third party candidate. Although I like many of Ron Paul's positions, I would not vote for him as an independent candidate. Do you have any basis for your claim ?
I think '58 Flat pointed out a real problem but he mentioned the wrong states. Florida, North Carolina, perhaps some of the midwestern states are where the third-party effort could hurt Mitt.







Post#4857 at 12-02-2011 02:01 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
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Quote Originally Posted by '58 Flat View Post
If either Gary Johnson or Ron Paul do run as an independent, it could spell serious trouble for the GOP if Romney wins the nomination - for in that case, enough white voters in states like Alabama and Mississippi could get siphoned off for the unthinkable to happen and Obama to actually carry such states.
Even though I like Ron Paul; he doesn't have a chance. I am a Goldwater Conservative and these GOP candidates are no friend's of mine. With that said; Gary Johnson will be my write-in candidate in Virginia.







Post#4858 at 12-02-2011 02:17 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
I think '58 Flat pointed out a real problem but he mentioned the wrong states. Florida, North Carolina, perhaps some of the midwestern states are where the third-party effort could hurt Mitt.
Agreed.
The deep south is the deep south. Voting down here is largely tribal. A strong center-right third party candidate would cement NC, VA and FL towards Obama for a second time. It would also put Georgia, Tennissee and South Carolina into play. But Mississippi, Alabama and Louisana, forget it.







Post#4859 at 12-02-2011 02:38 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
Agreed.
The deep south is the deep south. Voting down here is largely tribal. ....
'Tribal' voting is not restricted to the south as evidenced by the 90% voting blocks for the Democrat party.







Post#4860 at 12-02-2011 03:39 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
'Tribal' voting is not restricted to the south as evidenced by the 90% voting blocks for the Democrat party.
Did I imply that only those who don't vote for the Democratic party can engage in tribal behavior?







Post#4861 at 12-02-2011 05:01 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
I only am trying hold up a mirror to try to get you to see yourself as others see you. Your hyper-partisanship is unbecoming. I am not sure why you find it so satisfying. It is hardly persuasive.

If I were you, I would try to spend more time seeking the good intentions of others - including the Republicans.

James50
This is not a personal issue, and is not about intentions. The facts are unbecoming. That's where we are as a country; it may not be nice to say, but the truth needs to be told by someone. It is a question of facing up to the reality that Republicans need to be defeated. Parties are the way our country is organized. Whatever their intentions, the policies of Republicans are wrong, and they cannot be persuaded to change them. That is just the hard facts of politics today. The truth is not always nice. One party is now so wrong, and the wrong ideas are so concentrated in one party, that it makes political strategy easy.

Send the Republicans home, and things will get better. That is as rock solid a guarantee as you can find anywhere in the world, maybe the universe!
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4862 at 12-02-2011 05:04 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
Boomers want to make everything into a moral struggle. Most of the rest of society is sick of it.
This is not a moral struggle. Neither playwrite nor myself have made this a moral struggle. This is about policies. By claiming that I can't consider the intentions of Republicans, you are preaching to me about how to be a good guy. That is moralism, Mr. Boomer.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4863 at 12-02-2011 05:07 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by herbal tee View Post
Agreed.
The deep south is the deep south. Voting down here is largely tribal. A strong center-right third party candidate would cement NC, VA and FL towards Obama for a second time. It would also put Georgia, Tennissee and South Carolina into play. But Mississippi, Alabama and Louisana, forget it.
You have summarized the facts.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4864 at 12-02-2011 06:01 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4865 at 12-02-2011 06:56 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.
Wasn't the poster who goes by "58 Flat" (Anthony Brancato) calling for a 1957 cohort for Grey Champion? Hmmm.
Last edited by The Wonkette; 12-02-2011 at 06:59 PM.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#4866 at 12-02-2011 09:02 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Eric, but Cuomo had jumped on the New Dem corporatist austerity bandwagon last I heard.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#4867 at 12-02-2011 09:13 PM by TeddyR [at joined Aug 2011 #posts 998]
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Please not again

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.
Good God no, my whole childhood I grew up hearing people begging for Mario to run. Not another 15 years of this.

I grew up in NY, and the chorus was deafening in the 80s.

Which reminds me of completely inappropriate off-color unoffical campaign slogan when Koch and Cuomo were running against each other (I think for hizonner): Better Cuomo than a ______*. I will let you fill in the blank. Hey, it was a different time and it was NY. We have come a long way in how inappropriate that is now.

*Rhymes with Cuomo.







Post#4868 at 12-02-2011 09:25 PM by TeddyR [at joined Aug 2011 #posts 998]
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Tale of two cities

Mario Cuomo's 1984 keynote speech at the Dem National Convention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOdIqKsv624&sns=em

Worth a listen even if you remember it, and especially if you don't. Amazing how the soundtrack has changed very little. Also, a remarkable speech, delivered so powerfully and eloquently. It is worth investing seven minutes in.







Post#4869 at 12-02-2011 11:16 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Sorry to burst your bubble, Eric, but Cuomo had jumped on the New Dem corporatist austerity bandwagon last I heard.
Even worse, like most NY state poloticans he's trying to brownnose Wall Street which in this case means harassing Occupy Albany members.
I've got no use for Cuomo just like I had no use for his father.
If Cuomo runs in 2016 I will not support him and if he gets the Democratic Party nomination I will vote for whatever center-left alternative is avaioable.







Post#4870 at 12-03-2011 01:38 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by TeddyR View Post
Good God no, my whole childhood I grew up hearing people begging for Mario to run. Not another 15 years of this.

I grew up in NY, and the chorus was deafening in the 80s.
I wanted him to run, and when he didn't in 1992, I joined the Green Party. He told it like it was, and still is.

I know about Andrew's austerity and so on; that's why I called him "moderate" (I still think the old labels are valid, as you know).
Last edited by Eric the Green; 12-03-2011 at 01:50 AM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#4871 at 12-03-2011 10:12 AM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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This column by one of my unfavorite Silents, sanctimonious George Will, on the Republican candidates (he hates both front-runners), is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read. The punch line is around the middle of the column. It's great to have independent thinkers like him to turn to. . ..







Post#4872 at 12-03-2011 02:50 PM by millennialX [at Gotham City, USA joined Oct 2010 #posts 6,597]
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Born in 1981 and INFJ Gen Yer







Post#4873 at 12-03-2011 03:07 PM by summer in the fall [at joined Jul 2011 #posts 1,540]
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Quote Originally Posted by millennialX View Post
Quote Originally Posted by summer in the fall View Post
Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Cain appears to be in very serious political trouble but I see a silver lining in the cloud. The following statement was released by his lawyer.

Cain's attorney, Lin Wood, provided WAGA with a statement before the broadcast saying White's claim "appears to be an accusation of private, alleged consensual conduct between adults -- a subject matter which is not a proper subject of inquiry by the media or the public."

"No individual, whether a private citizen, a candidate for public office or a public official, should be questioned about his or her private sexual life," Wood's statement said, according to WAGA. That statement, apparently made before Cain's appearance on CNN, said the presidential candidate would not speak about the allegations.


Perhaps some day we will look back at this as the day the US began to recover its sanity. . .but I don't make that statement with great conviction, I must admit.
If the factor of race can be eliminated from it, that may certainly be the case.

Best...
So I guess now we'll never really know...

Best...







Post#4874 at 12-03-2011 04:50 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
This column by one of my unfavorite Silents, sanctimonious George Will, on the Republican candidates (he hates both front-runners), is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read. The punch line is around the middle of the column. It's great to have independent thinkers like him to turn to. . ..
The link is bad.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#4875 at 12-03-2011 04:50 PM by The Grey Badger [at Albuquerque, NM joined Sep 2001 #posts 8,876]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
This column by one of my unfavorite Silents, sanctimonious George Will, on the Republican candidates (he hates both front-runners), is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read. The punch line is around the middle of the column. It's great to have independent thinkers like him to turn to. . ..
The link doesn't work. Apparently half the URL got cut off.
How to spot a shill, by John Michael Greer: "What you watch for is (a) a brand new commenter who (b) has nothing to say about the topic under discussion but (c) trots out a smoothly written opinion piece that (d) hits all the standard talking points currently being used by a specific political or corporate interest, while (e) avoiding any other points anyone else has made on that subject."

"If the shoe fits..." The Grey Badger.
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