Originally Posted by playwrite

What do you get when lesser evil compromises with greater evil?

Boomers want to make everything into a moral struggle. Most of the rest of society is sick of it.

PW - you don't usually fall into this swamp. Your MMT essays are generally practical (although I could do with a little less of the "you are an idiot" phrasing.). I prefer that approach.

James50

Originally Posted by herbal tee

The Tea Party was the major factor in the 2010 midterms.

Actually, it wasn't; it was a secondary factor and one thing it may have accomplished is to leave the Democrats in control of the Senate. The Republicans should have won Delaware, Colorado and Nevada, and if they had run more moderate candidates they would have.

The primary factor in the 2010 election was a boycott by the left intended to send the Democrats a message. This was done by what might be called proto-Occupy (Occupy hadn't started yet but it emerged from the same on-line base). The same on-line base also decided the 2008 election but in the other direction, when Millennials still had a naive faith in the Democratic Party.

Originally Posted by James50

But how long can the Dems continue to dupe the public with their outdated ideologies, when more and more people are seeing the results they create in our government?

This is quite a misstatement (although a common one among conservatives) of the dynamic in the public's turning away from the Democrats last year. The Democrats' ideologies are not "outdated," they are deceptive -- the Democrats do not act on them. And nobody is seeing "the results they create in our government," because they are not being APPLIED in our government -- and we are seeing the result of THAT.

How long the Democrats can go on fooling the public is indeed a good question, but for a different reason than the one you stated.

There are a lot of forums where this video clip could go. It shows Michele Bachmann talking about gay rights to a very generationally mixed group of Iowans, and it is, in my opinion, marvellously revealing.

Originally Posted by James50

Boomers want to make everything into a moral struggle. Most of the rest of society is sick of it.

PW - you don't usually fall into this swamp. Your MMT essays are generally practical (although I could do with a little less of the "you are an idiot" phrasing.). I prefer that approach.

James50

When the GOP will only extend the payroll tax cut by eliminating federal workers and freezing their pay, to an MMTer, that is willfully dumber than shirt, and that is, for an MMTer, evil.

Originally Posted by '58 Flat

If either Gary Johnson or Ron Paul do run as an independent, it could spell serious trouble for the GOP if Romney wins the nomination - for in that case, enough white voters in states like Alabama and Mississippi could get siphoned off for the unthinkable to happen and Obama to actually carry such states.

I would suport Romney over a third party candidate. Although I like many of Ron Paul's positions, I would not vote for him as an independent candidate. Do you have any basis for your claim ?

Originally Posted by radind

I would suport Romney over a third party candidate. Although I like many of Ron Paul's positions, I would not vote for him as an independent candidate. Do you have any basis for your claim ?

I think '58 Flat pointed out a real problem but he mentioned the wrong states. Florida, North Carolina, perhaps some of the midwestern states are where the third-party effort could hurt Mitt.

Originally Posted by '58 Flat

If either Gary Johnson or Ron Paul do run as an independent, it could spell serious trouble for the GOP if Romney wins the nomination - for in that case, enough white voters in states like Alabama and Mississippi could get siphoned off for the unthinkable to happen and Obama to actually carry such states.

Even though I like Ron Paul; he doesn't have a chance. I am a Goldwater Conservative and these GOP candidates are no friend's of mine. With that said; Gary Johnson will be my write-in candidate in Virginia.

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

I think '58 Flat pointed out a real problem but he mentioned the wrong states. Florida, North Carolina, perhaps some of the midwestern states are where the third-party effort could hurt Mitt.

Agreed.
The deep south is the deep south. Voting down here is largely tribal. A strong center-right third party candidate would cement NC, VA and FL towards Obama for a second time. It would also put Georgia, Tennissee and South Carolina into play. But Mississippi, Alabama and Louisana, forget it.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Agreed.
The deep south is the deep south. Voting down here is largely tribal. ....

'Tribal' voting is not restricted to the south as evidenced by the 90% voting blocks for the Democrat party.

Originally Posted by radind

'Tribal' voting is not restricted to the south as evidenced by the 90% voting blocks for the Democrat party.

Did I imply that only those who don't vote for the Democratic party can engage in tribal behavior?

Originally Posted by James50

I only am trying hold up a mirror to try to get you to see yourself as others see you. Your hyper-partisanship is unbecoming. I am not sure why you find it so satisfying. It is hardly persuasive.

If I were you, I would try to spend more time seeking the good intentions of others - including the Republicans.

James50

This is not a personal issue, and is not about intentions. The facts are unbecoming. That's where we are as a country; it may not be nice to say, but the truth needs to be told by someone. It is a question of facing up to the reality that Republicans need to be defeated. Parties are the way our country is organized. Whatever their intentions, the policies of Republicans are wrong, and they cannot be persuaded to change them. That is just the hard facts of politics today. The truth is not always nice. One party is now so wrong, and the wrong ideas are so concentrated in one party, that it makes political strategy easy.

Send the Republicans home, and things will get better. That is as rock solid a guarantee as you can find anywhere in the world, maybe the universe!

Originally Posted by James50

Boomers want to make everything into a moral struggle. Most of the rest of society is sick of it.

This is not a moral struggle. Neither playwrite nor myself have made this a moral struggle. This is about policies. By claiming that I can't consider the intentions of Republicans, you are preaching to me about how to be a good guy. That is moralism, Mr. Boomer.

Originally Posted by herbal tee

Agreed.
The deep south is the deep south. Voting down here is largely tribal. A strong center-right third party candidate would cement NC, VA and FL towards Obama for a second time. It would also put Georgia, Tennissee and South Carolina into play. But Mississippi, Alabama and Louisana, forget it.

You have summarized the facts.

Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.

Wasn't the poster who goes by "58 Flat" (Anthony Brancato) calling for a 1957 cohort for Grey Champion? Hmmm.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.

Sorry to burst your bubble, Eric, but Cuomo had jumped on the New Dem corporatist austerity bandwagon last I heard.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Looking to the future, there is:

Andrew Mark Cuomo (pronounced /ˈkwoʊmoʊ/; born December 6, 1957) is the 56th and current Governor of New York, having assumed office on January 1, 2011. A member of the Democratic Party, he was the 64th New York State Attorney General, and was the 11th United States Secretary of Housing and Urban Development. Born in Queens, New York, he is the son of Mario Cuomo, the 52nd Governor of New York (1983–1994).

A boomer potential gray champion (yes I know, one among many). Too moderate perhaps? What do you think?

If we can have a president named Obama, we can have a president named Cuomo.

He has the chart of a natural executive, but may lack the popular jovial touch.

Good God no, my whole childhood I grew up hearing people begging for Mario to run. Not another 15 years of this.

I grew up in NY, and the chorus was deafening in the 80s.

Which reminds me of completely inappropriate off-color unoffical campaign slogan when Koch and Cuomo were running against each other (I think for hizonner): Better Cuomo than a ______*. I will let you fill in the blank. Hey, it was a different time and it was NY. We have come a long way in how inappropriate that is now.

*Rhymes with Cuomo.

Mario Cuomo's 1984 keynote speech at the Dem National Convention:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOdIqKsv624&sns=em

Worth a listen even if you remember it, and especially if you don't. Amazing how the soundtrack has changed very little. Also, a remarkable speech, delivered so powerfully and eloquently. It is worth investing seven minutes in.

Originally Posted by Odin

Sorry to burst your bubble, Eric, but Cuomo had jumped on the New Dem corporatist austerity bandwagon last I heard.

Even worse, like most NY state poloticans he's trying to brownnose Wall Street which in this case means harassing Occupy Albany members.
I've got no use for Cuomo just like I had no use for his father.
If Cuomo runs in 2016 I will not support him and if he gets the Democratic Party nomination I will vote for whatever center-left alternative is avaioable.

Originally Posted by TeddyR

Good God no, my whole childhood I grew up hearing people begging for Mario to run. Not another 15 years of this.

I grew up in NY, and the chorus was deafening in the 80s.

I wanted him to run, and when he didn't in 1992, I joined the Green Party. He told it like it was, and still is.

I know about Andrew's austerity and so on; that's why I called him "moderate" (I still think the old labels are valid, as you know).

This column by one of my unfavorite Silents, sanctimonious George Will, on the Republican candidates (he hates both front-runners), is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read. The punch line is around the middle of the column. It's great to have independent thinkers like him to turn to. . ..

Well, Cain is done now.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/03/electi...html?hpt=hp_t1

Originally Posted by millennialX

Well, Cain is done now.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/03/electi...html?hpt=hp_t1

Originally Posted by summer in the fall

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

Cain appears to be in very serious political trouble but I see a silver lining in the cloud. The following statement was released by his lawyer.

Cain's attorney, Lin Wood, provided WAGA with a statement before the broadcast saying White's claim "appears to be an accusation of private, alleged consensual conduct between adults -- a subject matter which is not a proper subject of inquiry by the media or the public."

"No individual, whether a private citizen, a candidate for public office or a public official, should be questioned about his or her private sexual life," Wood's statement said, according to WAGA. That statement, apparently made before Cain's appearance on CNN, said the presidential candidate would not speak about the allegations.

Perhaps some day we will look back at this as the day the US began to recover its sanity. . .but I don't make that statement with great conviction, I must admit.

If the factor of race can be eliminated from it, that may certainly be the case.

Best...

So I guess now we'll never really know...

Best...

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

This column by one of my unfavorite Silents, sanctimonious George Will, on the Republican candidates (he hates both front-runners), is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read. The punch line is around the middle of the column. It's great to have independent thinkers like him to turn to. . ..

The link is bad.

Originally Posted by KaiserD2

This column by one of my unfavorite Silents, sanctimonious George Will, on the Republican candidates (he hates both front-runners), is one of the most unintentionally hilarious things I've ever read. The punch line is around the middle of the column. It's great to have independent thinkers like him to turn to. . ..

The link doesn't work. Apparently half the URL got cut off.