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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 199







Post#4951 at 12-13-2011 02:43 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
In the interest of forum decorum, I wish you would refrain from this kind of word play. It is a turn-off from either side.James50
I'll gladly refrain when others stop using terms like Repugs, Rethugs, Conservaturds, Repukes, Faux news and other silly labels.......







Post#4952 at 12-13-2011 02:49 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Fear of Big Govt at all time high

New poll by Gallup puts fear of Big Govt at all time high over 64% rear it while only 26% fear Big Business. Looks like the Occupy movement has failed miserably....

http://www.gallup.com/poll/151490/Fe...ord-Level.aspx







Post#4953 at 12-13-2011 02:49 PM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
I'll gladly refrain when others stop using terms like Repugs, Rethugs, Conservaturds, Repukes, Faux news and other silly labels.......
I guess I was thinking you would like to set a good example for others.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#4954 at 12-13-2011 03:52 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
I guess I was thinking you would like to set a good example for others.

James50
Good approach. Thanks James.







Post#4955 at 12-13-2011 05:33 PM by ziggyX65 [at Texas Hill Country joined Apr 2010 #posts 2,634]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
New poll by Gallup puts fear of Big Govt at all time high over 64% rear it while only 26% fear Big Business. Looks like the Occupy movement has failed miserably....
Not entirely. Some of the fear of Big Government is that existing government has already shown it's in the pocket of Big Business and corporate interests, often at the expense of workers, consumers and smaller business competitors. As long as THAT is the perception of government, why would we want more of it?

First, let's change who the government is working for. THEN maybe we can revisit the bigger/smaller government issue. For me the size of government is less important than whether or not it's working for the people, and whether or not it provides reasonably good value for the amount of taxes paid. Some Occupists may or may not want bigger government, but to a person they just about all want government that works for the people, not the corporations the Supreme Court claims are "people".

Also, some of the "big government" fears relate to Big Brotherish surveillance and "homeland security" tactics that arguably violate the Constitution, not economic issues which is primarily what Occupy is addressing.







Post#4956 at 12-13-2011 05:45 PM by JustPassingThrough [at joined Dec 2006 #posts 5,196]
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USA Today: Resurgent Republicans Close Gap In Key States

Since the heady days of 2008, a new USA TODAY/Gallup Swing States Poll finds the number of voters who identify themselves as Democratic or Democratic-leaning in these key states has eroded, down by 4 percentage points, while the ranks of Republicans have climbed by 5 points.

Republican voters also are more attentive to the campaign, more enthusiastic about the election and more convinced that the outcome matters.
If people are capable of setting aside their political biases for a moment and thinking in S&H terms, it is interesting the way things are developing. I've said for a long time, going back a number of years when I first registered here, that when I looked at S&H's predictions and looked at the prominent public figures of this time period, the only individual who stood out to me as a possible "gray champion", a Boomer who could plausibly fill the role of someone like FDR, was Newt Gingrich. The fact that he had promoted and blurbed S&H's books in the past may have played a role in it, but he also has the larger-than-life persona required to be a transformational leader, and has already done so in the past. Like him or not (I've had some issues with his personality and positions from time to time), from a S&H perspective, he could be the guy. And as of right now, it looks quite possible that he will be elected president next year.
Last edited by JustPassingThrough; 12-13-2011 at 05:53 PM.







Post#4957 at 12-13-2011 05:48 PM by ziggyX65 [at Texas Hill Country joined Apr 2010 #posts 2,634]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
I've noticed this in some places. I wonder how much of this is a "bump" to all the debates and the campaigning that is primarily on the Republican side and how much Republican politicking is more in the news. It would be interesting to look back historically and see if the opposition party historically gains support during primary season when they are up against an incumbent seeking re-election -- and interesting to see if it holds even after primary season is over.







Post#4958 at 12-13-2011 06:14 PM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
USA Today: Resurgent Republicans Close Gap In Key States



If people are capable of setting aside their political biases for a moment and thinking in S&H terms, it is interesting the way things are developing. I've said for a long time, going back a number of years when I first registered here, that when I looked at S&H's predictions and looked at the prominent public figures of this time period, the only individual who stood out to me as a possible "gray champion", a Boomer who could plausibly fill the role of someone like FDR, was Newt Gingrich. The fact that he had promoted and blurbed S&H's books in the past may have played a role in it, but he also has the larger-than-life persona required to be a transformational leader, and has already done so in the past. Like him or not (I've had some issues with his personality and positions from time to time), from a S&H perspective, he could be the guy. And as of right now, it looks quite possible that he will be elected president next year.
I usually never watch the staged political debates that have become so popular and generally so full of pre-packaged sound bites, "gotcha" questions, and supposed "gaffes" that they are impossible to watch.

However, I would look forward to a debate between Gingrich and Obama.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#4959 at 12-13-2011 08:20 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
USA Today: Resurgent Republicans Close Gap In Key States



If people are capable of setting aside their political biases for a moment and thinking in S&H terms, it is interesting the way things are developing. I've said for a long time, going back a number of years when I first registered here, that when I looked at S&H's predictions and looked at the prominent public figures of this time period, the only individual who stood out to me as a possible "gray champion", a Boomer who could plausibly fill the role of someone like FDR, was Newt Gingrich. The fact that he had promoted and blurbed S&H's books in the past may have played a role in it, but he also has the larger-than-life persona required to be a transformational leader, and has already done so in the past. Like him or not (I've had some issues with his personality and positions from time to time), from a S&H perspective, he could be the guy. And as of right now, it looks quite possible that he will be elected president next year.

Yes, this is exactly right - there's no way Obama can win a second term. This is a cakewalk for the GOP; they may even take the whole enchilada with the Senate as well as the House!

But then it could all just be a repeat of Bush - turning away from the real true conservatism. And Romney isn't even Bush! Hell, he's the source of Obamacare and how can you trust him on abortion or prayer in school? Answer: you can't! Romney is going sell you out more so than Bush ever did. You guys can't let that happen!

You've got to go BIG with Newt! He brought you guys the House for the first time! He brought the federal surpluses. He really was behind all the deregulation. He can go toe-to-toe with Obama; he don't need no prompter - he'll wipe the floor with Obama!

This really is your chance to do it right, and I mean really Right! Dump that two-faced, weird religion dude, Romney from the most liberal state in the union.

Go with Newt. Send his campaign some money, right now!!!

I am.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4960 at 12-14-2011 06:12 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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The election is taking a rather interesting turn.

This article suggests that this election is going to be rather interesting.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#4961 at 12-14-2011 10:57 AM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
This article suggests that this election is going to be rather interesting.
It does. It also points to the continuing upheaval within the GOP, which helps explain the weirdness of this nomination process. Paul supporters are rejecting many of the positions of the "conservative" movement (while supporting others), including the hawkish commitment to empire, the war on drugs, and the uncritical support of big business.

The way things are going, with the economy improving slowly, especially in the critical employment sector, I expect Obama to be reelected, but all is not calm and unified on his side of the aisle, either. Many of the polls are misleading because of that. For example, Obama's approval ratings continue to be low, yet he polls favorably against any of the possible Republican challengers. The only likely explanation for this is that a substantial part of those answering polls that they disapprove of his job performance, are critical of him from the left. Such a person might answer that he disapproves of Obama's job performance, but when asked who he's going to vote for between Obama and whoever will answer "(Sigh.) Obama, I guess. Damn it."
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#4962 at 12-14-2011 11:59 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
USA Today: Resurgent Republicans Close Gap In Key States



If people are capable of setting aside their political biases for a moment and thinking in S&H terms, it is interesting the way things are developing. I've said for a long time, going back a number of years when I first registered here, that when I looked at S&H's predictions and looked at the prominent public figures of this time period, the only individual who stood out to me as a possible "gray champion", a Boomer who could plausibly fill the role of someone like FDR, was Newt Gingrich. The fact that he had promoted and blurbed S&H's books in the past may have played a role in it, but he also has the larger-than-life persona required to be a transformational leader, and has already done so in the past. Like him or not (I've had some issues with his personality and positions from time to time), from a S&H perspective, he could be the guy. And as of right now, it looks quite possible that he will be elected president next year.
I have seen enough of FDR in the media and enough of Newt Gingrich in the media to recognize that Newt Gingrich is no FDR. Sure, he could be a transformative leader if given the chance, but he would surely transform things in the wrong way more than the right way -- like Dubya. Stretching the word adequately one could consider both Nicholas II and Lenin "transformative".

At this stage of the cycle the incumbent must govern and opponents are free to carp about everything with few consequences. The media have been giving all prospective opponents of the President adequate leeway to make their cases. That's not to say that those cases are flawless. Remember that this President is an attorney, and had he chosen such a course of a career he would probably be the sort of prosecutor who sends mobsters away to prison. One succeeds by letting the crooks seemingly get away with flamboyant statements often in jest and thinking that they can get away with claiming how powerful they are and what a fool the legal process is. Thomas E. Dewey was able to send the gangster Louis "Lepke" Buchalter to the electric chair after Buchalter said of one of his victims "He could sing like a canary, but he just couldn't fly like a canary (Abe Reles, a lower-level gangster who snitched was tossed out a window).

We see only bits and pieces of President Obama in campaign mode. We Americans liked that enough to vote him in. But note well: the President can't get away with that; he has other concerns now, like foreign policy and stewardship of the economy. No President can cast a spell that says "recession be gone!" or "War end now!" and succeed. Such is sorcery, and if sorcery worked we would be better-off choosing 'psychic readers' than attorneys as politicians.

The adage "Pride goeth before the fall" applies as much to politicians as to any other people. A Republican politician can load up on insults of the President and convince like-minded people. Go arrogant and flamboyant in criticism of the President while avoiding realism and you just might convince your own side vehemently while losing the rest of the electorate.

We have seen Mike Huckabee do as well as anyone against the President in polling... and realize that he had no real chance and pull out. We have seen Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, Donald Trump, Michelle Bachmann, and Herman Cain try... and fail. I see no reason to expect differently with Newt Gingrich. The wise course for any Republican nominee would be to recognize the current President's legitimate achievements and promise to build upon them, as Bill Clinton did on the foreign policy of George H W Bush.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#4963 at 12-14-2011 12:19 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
It does. It also points to the continuing upheaval within the GOP, which helps explain the weirdness of this nomination process. Paul supporters are rejecting many of the positions of the "conservative" movement (while supporting others), including the hawkish commitment to empire, the war on drugs, and the uncritical support of big business.

The way things are going, with the economy improving slowly, especially in the critical employment sector, I expect Obama to be reelected, but all is not calm and unified on his side of the aisle, either. Many of the polls are misleading because of that. For example, Obama's approval ratings continue to be low, yet he polls favorably against any of the possible Republican challengers. The only likely explanation for this is that a substantial part of those answering polls that they disapprove of his job performance, are critical of him from the left. Such a person might answer that he disapproves of Obama's job performance, but when asked who he's going to vote for between Obama and whoever will answer "(Sigh.) Obama, I guess. Damn it."
Shhhhhh! Be still!

You know as well as I do that the upcoming election is a cakewalk for the GOP. What they really really need to do is make sure that this time they really really put up a candidate that's going to really really take the country in a really really conservative direction. These guys would be really really crazy to blow this opportunity with a Romney or a Huntsmen when they got Gingrich, Perry, Bachman, Santorum to really really straighten this country out. They really need to knock those RINOs Romney and Huntsman out as early as possible, and for the good of the country, let us all focus on what remains and all get really really ready to vote the Right way!

I'm writing another check today for Gingrich, maybe even Paul!

You know this country is center Right? Lets go for it!
Last edited by playwrite; 12-14-2011 at 12:36 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4964 at 12-14-2011 12:34 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
I have seen enough of FDR in the media and enough of Newt Gingrich in the media to recognize that Newt Gingrich is no FDR. Sure, he could be a transformative leader if given the chance, but he would surely transform things in the wrong way more than the right way -- like Dubya. Stretching the word adequately one could consider both Nicholas II and Lenin "transformative".

At this stage of the cycle the incumbent must govern and opponents are free to carp about everything with few consequences. The media have been giving all prospective opponents of the President adequate leeway to make their cases. That's not to say that those cases are flawless. Remember that this President is an attorney, and had he chosen such a course of a career he would probably be the sort of prosecutor who sends mobsters away to prison. One succeeds by letting the crooks seemingly get away with flamboyant statements often in jest and thinking that they can get away with claiming how powerful they are and what a fool the legal process is. Thomas E. Dewey was able to send the gangster Louis "Lepke" Buchalter to the electric chair after Buchalter said of one of his victims "He could sing like a canary, but he just couldn't fly like a canary (Abe Reles, a lower-level gangster who snitched was tossed out a window).

We see only bits and pieces of President Obama in campaign mode. We Americans liked that enough to vote him in. But note well: the President can't get away with that; he has other concerns now, like foreign policy and stewardship of the economy. No President can cast a spell that says "recession be gone!" or "War end now!" and succeed. Such is sorcery, and if sorcery worked we would be better-off choosing 'psychic readers' than attorneys as politicians.

The adage "Pride goeth before the fall" applies as much to politicians as to any other people. A Republican politician can load up on insults of the President and convince like-minded people. Go arrogant and flamboyant in criticism of the President while avoiding realism and you just might convince your own side vehemently while losing the rest of the electorate.

We have seen Mike Huckabee do as well as anyone against the President in polling... and realize that he had no real chance and pull out. We have seen Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty, Donald Trump, Michelle Bachmann, and Herman Cain try... and fail. I see no reason to expect differently with Newt Gingrich. The wise course for any Republican nominee would be to recognize the current President's legitimate achievements and promise to build upon them, as Bill Clinton did on the foreign policy of George H W Bush.

No, no, no! Pbrower, this is one of the very few times we disagree.

You are askng folks like JPT, Weave, and other fine principled people to go against their most basic principles, and at a time when they will so easily crush their opposition!

No, what they have to do, what they must do as fine principled men, is to weed out the weak amongst them, the liberals dressed in conservative clothing, like Romney and Huntsman, and go all-in with any of the fine prinicipled candidates of Gingrich, Paul, Bachmann or Santorum. For them, this is not a moment to go half-hearted and be disappoint for 4 or 8 years into the future! The iron is hot, they need to strike now!!! To do any less would make them cowards! They may be many things, but they are not that!

Go, my conservative friends, go, go, go!!! This is your time to really prove what you are made of!!! Go, go, go!!! Send Romney back to his most liberal state in the union to once again advise people on how to make Obamacare work. Send Huntsman back to working for Obama and representing how weak the US is to Red China. Go, conservatives, go! Show us all what you are made of!!! This is not the time for compromise or half-measures! Go, go, go!!!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4965 at 12-14-2011 02:21 PM by JustPassingThrough [at joined Dec 2006 #posts 5,196]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Yes, this is exactly right - there's no way Obama can win a second term. This is a cakewalk for the GOP; they may even take the whole enchilada with the Senate as well as the House!

But then it could all just be a repeat of Bush - turning away from the real true conservatism. And Romney isn't even Bush! Hell, he's the source of Obamacare and how can you trust him on abortion or prayer in school? Answer: you can't! Romney is going sell you out more so than Bush ever did. You guys can't let that happen!

You've got to go BIG with Newt! He brought you guys the House for the first time! He brought the federal surpluses. He really was behind all the deregulation. He can go toe-to-toe with Obama; he don't need no prompter - he'll wipe the floor with Obama!

This really is your chance to do it right, and I mean really Right! Dump that two-faced, weird religion dude, Romney from the most liberal state in the union.

Go with Newt. Send his campaign some money, right now!!!

I am.
You're sounding a bit frantic.

I think Gingrich will be much harder for Obama and his campaign to destroy than Romney. The danger is that he will destroy himself with ill-advised statements. So far he hasn't showed a sign of doing that.







Post#4966 at 12-14-2011 02:47 PM by JustPassingThrough [at joined Dec 2006 #posts 5,196]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
This article suggests that this election is going to be rather interesting.
Iowa has a history of going for candidates who don't win much else, so it's hard to use that as a barometer. More importantly, the early voting states this year are using proportional representation for the first time, which means none of them will be decisive on their own. Gingrich now has a big lead nationally, and big leads in South Carolina and Florida. He also leads in Iowa in most polls. None of the other would-be candidates (Perry, Cain, Bachmann) ever reached the kind of numbers Gingrich has now, and the voting starts soon, with the campaign freeze of Christmas in between. What has happened is that conservative voters have settled on Gingrich after looking at all the alternatives. If anyone is looking to place a bet on who the nominee will be, I would advise betting on Newt.

If Iowa and New Hampshire turn out the way they look, Gingrich, Paul and Romney will be relatively close heading into SC, and the delegate count will be in that order. Romney's support in Iowa has been dropping, Gingrich's support in NH has been rising, and Paul is relatively strong in both. It's not out of the realm of possibility that Paul could end up finishing second. Romney's position has always been exaggerated by the media, which desperately wants him to win so that they are guaranteed the next president will not be a conservative. But the national numbers for Paul are only around 10%. He does well in caucuses, where his highly energized supporters can flood the field in his favor. He's won a lot of straw polls that way. But most of the contests are primaries, and his poll numbers have to go way up before he has a shot at the nomination.

The Democrats' best hope, by far, is that Paul or Donald Trump runs as an independent. Trump has suggested he would endorse Gingrich if he's the nominee, but might not support Romney. And Trump's seriousness about running for president has always been suspect. Paul is a more likely risk, but I suspect he would hesitate because of the disastrous impact that could have on his son Rand's political career.







Post#4967 at 12-14-2011 02:54 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
You're sounding a bit frantic.

I think Gingrich will be much harder for Obama and his campaign to destroy than Romney. The danger is that he will destroy himself with ill-advised statements. So far he hasn't showed a sign of doing that.
I'm so gleefully frantic that I send another check this AM.

Here's the link if you want to put some money where your fine principles are -

https://www.newt.org/donate
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4968 at 12-14-2011 03:01 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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I won't be surprised if this election is decided more by people voting against a candidate, rather than for someone.







Post#4969 at 12-14-2011 03:10 PM by JustPassingThrough [at joined Dec 2006 #posts 5,196]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
I'm so gleefully frantic that I send another check this AM.

Here's the link if you want to put some money where your fine principles are -

https://www.newt.org/donate
Not sure if you realize it, but it's painfully obvious that you don't believe what you're saying. You know how vulnerable Obama is, and you want the most liberal Republican possible to win the nomination to soften the blow if Obama loses.

The problem with Romney is that he's tailor-made for the campaign narrative Obama has been sketching out. If you want someone you can use to caricature the Republicans as the "party of the rich", you couldn't invent a better candidate than Romney. Gingrich, on the other hand, comes from a more disadvantaged background than Obama. He was born to a 16 year old single mother in rural PA, and not one that came from an affluent family like Obama's mother did.

Romney is an empty suit, and the Obama campaign will make mincemeat of him. Many of Romney's "supporters" know that, and it's the reason why they support him.







Post#4970 at 12-14-2011 03:40 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
Not sure if you realize it, but it's painfully obvious that you don't believe what you're saying. You know how vulnerable Obama is, and you want the most liberal Republican possible to win the nomination to soften the blow if Obama loses.
LOL of course he doesn't believe what he's saying, but get real. He wants an extreme candidate because it would make Obama's reelection a cakewalk. Of all the GOP contenders, Romney is the only one with any chance at all of beating Obama. Gringrich would be toast.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#4971 at 12-14-2011 04:03 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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I don't think any of the Republican nominees actually poses a significant threat to Obama.

Romney is the only one who is polling anywhere close, and he's not going to do well with the hardcore, right-wing base. Not only is there the religion problem, there's the big issue of Romney-care. Is he going to claim credit for an relatively unpopular reform act? Deny his involvement? More likely, he'll inspire the religious fundies and hardcore Randians to stay at home.

Everyone else is already trailing Obama by a statistically significant margin.

For my ideal outcome, I'd like to see Obama debate Ron Paul. Obama would have to shift his rhetoric quite a bit or end up coming off as the foreign policy / security hawk and drug warrior. That would REALLY discourage the far right from participating, and could have an interesting effect on Congressional votes and ballot measure outcomes.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#4972 at 12-14-2011 04:04 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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12-14-2011, 04:04 PM #4972
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
LOL of course he doesn't believe what he's saying, but get real. He wants an extreme candidate because it would make Obama's reelection a cakewalk. Of all the GOP contenders, Romney is the only one with any chance at all of beating Obama. Gringrich would be toast.
I hope you're right, but I remember when liberals said the same about Reagan circa 1979.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#4973 at 12-14-2011 04:18 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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12-14-2011, 04:18 PM #4973
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
Not sure if you realize it, but it's painfully obvious that you don't believe what you're saying. You know how vulnerable Obama is, and you want the most liberal Republican possible to win the nomination to soften the blow if Obama loses.

The problem with Romney is that he's tailor-made for the campaign narrative Obama has been sketching out. If you want someone you can use to caricature the Republicans as the "party of the rich", you couldn't invent a better candidate than Romney. Gingrich, on the other hand, comes from a more disadvantaged background than Obama. He was born to a 16 year old single mother in rural PA, and not one that came from an affluent family like Obama's mother did.

Romney is an empty suit, and the Obama campaign will make mincemeat of him. Many of Romney's "supporters" know that, and it's the reason why they support him.
You are so right!

You have stirred me. I've hit the limit for 2011, but when the new year starts, another check or two is going to Newt!



p.s. I've check-in with Father Garnet and he's okay with my stance.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4974 at 12-14-2011 04:20 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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12-14-2011, 04:20 PM #4974
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
...For my ideal outcome, I'd like to see Obama debate Ron Paul. Obama would have to shift his rhetoric quite a bit or end up coming off as the foreign policy / security hawk and drug warrior. That would REALLY discourage the far right from participating, and could have an interesting effect on Congressional votes and ballot measure outcomes.
OMG, I would pay good money to see THAT debate!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#4975 at 12-14-2011 04:24 PM by Tone70 [at Omaha joined Apr 2010 #posts 1,473]
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12-14-2011, 04:24 PM #4975
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
USA Today: Resurgent Republicans Close Gap In Key States



If people are capable of setting aside their political biases for a moment and thinking in S&H terms, it is interesting the way things are developing. I've said for a long time, going back a number of years when I first registered here, that when I looked at S&H's predictions and looked at the prominent public figures of this time period, the only individual who stood out to me as a possible "gray champion", a Boomer who could plausibly fill the role of someone like FDR, was Newt Gingrich. The fact that he had promoted and blurbed S&H's books in the past may have played a role in it, but he also has the larger-than-life persona required to be a transformational leader, and has already done so in the past. Like him or not (I've had some issues with his personality and positions from time to time), from a S&H perspective, he could be the guy. And as of right now, it looks quite possible that he will be elected president next year.
There are no larger then life people. That persona thing is a fiction. Bruce Lee was just a guy training in his backyard. He also did a few movies. Newt's just a man and not a very good example of one either. There is a decent chance he'll be the nominee and vanishingly small chance he'll win if nominated. Don't buy the hype.*

*also applies to the whole concept of the Gray Champion.
"Freedom is not something that the rulers "give" the population...people have immense power potential. It is ultimately their attitudes, behavior, cooperation, and obedience that supply the power to all rulers and hierarchical systems..." - Gene Sharp

"The Occupy protesters are acting like citizens, believing they have the power to change things...that humble people can acquire power when they convince themselves they can." - William Greider
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