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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 214







Post#5326 at 12-28-2011 02:51 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
To repeat in re Paul: I know the concept of personal responsibility has been pretty eroded in recent decades, but saying that things you signed off on don't represent your views is pretty near a new low.
I have noticed that the politicians that rant the most about "personal responsibility" are the ones that don't have any (see The Newt)
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#5327 at 12-28-2011 03:11 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Thank you! My wife has been trying to get me to watch it for some time. Now I will!
Glad to make the recommendation. It's a good film, and from what I hear, an even better graphic novel.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#5328 at 12-28-2011 03:46 PM by Monsieur Le Chien [at joined Dec 2011 #posts 156]
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Obama is approaching positive buoyancy in the polls. All hail Boehner! And his caucus. And the GOP reality show of candidates.







Post#5329 at 12-28-2011 07:10 PM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
This is directly out of his mouth, Justin.
Considering that an attempt to bypass the second amendment through the proposed small arms treaty has already happened it would seem to me that we are not dealing with conspiracy theory. I have never been a big fan of the UN myself, mostly because I consider it to be the most useless organization ever created in the history of mankind and so I would be in favor of leaving in order to not have to spend money on it anymore.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#5330 at 12-28-2011 07:11 PM by ziggyX65 [at Texas Hill Country joined Apr 2010 #posts 2,634]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Which leads me to believe that it's a non-issue. If you like Paul, you don't care about the newsletters. If you don't like Paul, it gives you a reason to slam him.
In other words, it's identical to any other politician, any other party and any other political agenda. People will always make excuses for their "preferred" candidates or party even if they would pillory someone on the "other team" for what is essentially the same thing.

People like to pretend they are objective and open-minded, but in reality we're mostly full of shit where that claim is concerned. And yes, I include myself in that category at times. We're not robots. The challenge is to recognize it and rise above it.







Post#5331 at 12-28-2011 09:17 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
Considering that an attempt to bypass the second amendment through the proposed small arms treaty has already happened it would seem to me that we are not dealing with conspiracy theory. I have never been a big fan of the UN myself, mostly because I consider it to be the most useless organization ever created in the history of mankind and so I would be in favor of leaving in order to not have to spend money on it anymore.
The UN isn't forcing the US to accept the treaty. The UN can't force the 5 permanent members to do anything.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#5332 at 12-28-2011 09:59 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Robert Reich predicts an Obama-Clinton ticket for 2012

Why do I say this? Because Obama needs to stir the passions and enthusiasms of a Democratic base that's been disillusioned with his cave-ins to regressive Republicans. Hillary Clinton on the ticket can do that.

Moreover, the economy won't be in superb shape in the months leading up to Election Day. Indeed, if the European debt crisis grows worse and if China's economy continues to slow, there's a better than even chance we'll be back in a recession. Clinton would help deflect attention from the bad economy and put it on foreign policy, where she and Obama have shined.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert...b_1173300.html
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5333 at 12-28-2011 11:06 PM by Monsieur Le Chien [at joined Dec 2011 #posts 156]
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I'm predicting many Iowans will be glad to have their TV's back on 4 JAN 2012...







Post#5334 at 12-28-2011 11:15 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Monsieur Le Chien View Post
I'm predicting many Iowans will be glad to have their TV's back on 4 JAN 2012...
They sure will. And with the campaign season gearing up for November 2012, we will also be most appreciative of the end of political ads. Not to mention those dog-gone automated phone calls.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5335 at 12-28-2011 11:20 PM by TnT [at joined Feb 2005 #posts 2,005]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
Robert Reich predicts an Obama-Clinton ticket for 2012
Hmmm. I'm skeptical that Hillary would even consider running for VP. If she did, there would have to be something in it for her and Bill. I'm thinking Obama would have to give her some really significant power to DO stuff ... a la Cheney? I'm thinking that she would want to be more activist than Obama. And ... her bottom line would be getting the presidency for herself in 2016.
" ... a man of notoriously vicious and intemperate disposition."







Post#5336 at 12-28-2011 11:42 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by TnT View Post
Hmmm. I'm skeptical that Hillary would even consider running for VP. If she did, there would have to be something in it for her and Bill. I'm thinking Obama would have to give her some really significant power to DO stuff ... a la Cheney? I'm thinking that she would want to be more activist than Obama. And ... her bottom line would be getting the presidency for herself in 2016.
That's what Reich is suggesting, a chance at 2016. One thing for sure, this election season will be most interesting. Maybe even nail biting time.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5337 at 12-29-2011 02:04 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
The Sinister Genius of the Ron Paul Agenda
Curious, this guy doesn't think that Ron Paul is a racist.

Then again Obama is willing to imprison people indefinitely much as his predecessor did. It would seem that as long as the President is a Democrat this is acceptable now where it wasn't before.
Last edited by Galen; 12-29-2011 at 02:14 AM.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#5338 at 12-29-2011 02:15 AM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
Curious, this guy doesn't think that Ron Paul is a racist.
Even more curious: CNN has figured out how to get Democrats to effectively campaign for Romney.

Odin, Deb, regardless of how you feel about Ron Paul or whether or not you'd ever vote for him, you have to think about it strategically. Romney has the most to gain from attacks on Paul, and Romney is the Republican with the best chance of defeating Obama.

Further, a Ron Paul vs. Obama campaign would lead to an interesting debate on very important issues like the War on Terror, the War on Drugs, and all of the various human rights that go along with it. Not to mention Obama's staff of bankers and CEOs who fear Paul's increasingly successful attacks on the Federal Reserve.

Finally, if Ron Paul were to miraculously win the primary, many many Republicans would feel incredibly disenfranchised by the lack of what they see as acceptable choices. (See Gingrich considering a vote for Obama against Paul) This would lead to a lot of the hard-core right-wingers staying home on election day, and it could be an incredible boon for left-wing Congressional candidates and populist ballot measures.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#5339 at 12-29-2011 02:39 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Even more curious: CNN has figured out how to get Democrats to effectively campaign for Romney.
This little fact would suggest that Democratic strategists consider Ron Paul to be a bigger problem for Obama than Romney. The other thing that you have keep in mind is that Ron Paul is motivating the demographic groups that sent Obama to the White House. It would seem that youngsters are deciding to move out of the conventional Left-Right mindset.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#5340 at 12-29-2011 03:45 AM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Here is a further example of odd behavior for someone who is supposed to be a racist.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#5341 at 12-29-2011 03:58 AM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
This little fact would suggest that Democratic strategists consider Ron Paul to be a bigger problem for Obama than Romney.
Not quite... it actually looks like Romney poses the biggest direct threat to Obama. That guy is so greasy that nothing sticks to him. This is what makes it so crazy that Democrats are out campaigning against Paul and indirectly for Romney, because every hit piece increases the odds that a Republican will take the house in 2013.

The other thing that you have keep in mind is that Ron Paul is motivating the demographic groups that sent Obama to the White House. It would seem that youngsters are deciding to move out of the conventional Left-Right mindset.
See, it is the very Left-Right mindset that is at stake. If Obama and Romney duke it out, everyone in big finance and big media knows the outcome: either way, the establishment wins. In that sense, CNN probably doesn't care about electing a Democrat half as much as they care about electing someone who will keep the status-quo Left-Right paradigm intact. For them, Romney-Obama is a guaranteed victory, but a Ron Paul nomination introduces some modicum of doubt.

It also goes to show the waning power of traditional media outlets. 5 or 10 years ago it was easy to ignore Ron Paul because most people got their news from the TV and AP. But every day that passes, people are dropping out of those traditional channels and tuning in to the web... They're trying to fight this directly with PIPA and SOPA (the greatest threats to free speech this country has ever seen) and there's only one candidate who has taken a strong stand against these thinly veiled attempts at censorship and internet control.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#5342 at 12-29-2011 06:08 AM by Monsieur Le Chien [at joined Dec 2011 #posts 156]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
They sure will. And with the campaign season gearing up for November 2012, we will also be most appreciative of the end of political ads. Not to mention those dog-gone automated phone calls.
Hey! Us dogs are not responsible for those loathsome abuses of the phone system. All the ringing hurts our floppy ears!







Post#5343 at 12-29-2011 08:15 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Even more curious: CNN has figured out how to get Democrats to effectively campaign for Romney.

Odin, Deb, regardless of how you feel about Ron Paul or whether or not you'd ever vote for him, you have to think about it strategically. Romney has the most to gain from attacks on Paul, and Romney is the Republican with the best chance of defeating Obama.

Further, a Ron Paul vs. Obama campaign would lead to an interesting debate on very important issues like the War on Terror, the War on Drugs, and all of the various human rights that go along with it. Not to mention Obama's staff of bankers and CEOs who fear Paul's increasingly successful attacks on the Federal Reserve.

Finally, if Ron Paul were to miraculously win the primary, many many Republicans would feel incredibly disenfranchised by the lack of what they see as acceptable choices. (See Gingrich considering a vote for Obama against Paul) This would lead to a lot of the hard-core right-wingers staying home on election day, and it could be an incredible boon for left-wing Congressional candidates and populist ballot measures.
Oh, make no mistake, I WANT Paul to win the GOP primary. His attitudes on foreign policy and the drug war will force Obama to the left on those issues. And his wacky economic positions will drive moderates away from the GOP.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#5344 at 12-29-2011 08:20 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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I heard a report on NPR this morning saying that people are not very happy with the Republicans right now and the popularity of the Tea Party has plummeted. Congress's approval rating is at an all-time low.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#5345 at 12-29-2011 10:43 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Oh, make no mistake, I WANT Paul to win the GOP primary. His attitudes on foreign policy and the drug war will force Obama to the left on those issues. And his wacky economic positions will drive moderates away from the GOP.
Yes, this is what third parties do, force discussion of issues that the other side would prefer to be kept hidden. I would love to hear a debate between Paul and Obama on the wars and unmanned drones.

Some of those wacky economic ideas appear to amount to his ideas of too much government oversight in our business and proposing unfettered corporations. The very reason the financial industry got by with high crimes and contributed to the economic downward spiral in the first place.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#5346 at 12-29-2011 04:26 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Remember I just made a prediction that, because Jupiter is in his sun sign (he being the only Taurus in the race), Santorum would not drop out first because he would be doing better? Well, chalk up another one for Eric Mystic

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...mary-1588.html

It looks like he's surging in Iowa. He might be the next right-winger for the right-wing to try on for size. That is, if Paul's surge is over.

Romney may be on his way to victory too, as I predicted.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#5347 at 12-29-2011 04:30 PM by ziggyX65 [at Texas Hill Country joined Apr 2010 #posts 2,634]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
Some of those wacky economic ideas appear to amount to his ideas of too much government oversight in our business and proposing unfettered corporations. The very reason the financial industry got by with high crimes and contributed to the economic downward spiral in the first place.
Actually sometimes I think Paul's right and sometimes I think he's off his rocker. The problem is, as I see it, too much government involvement in all the wrong places (those that seem to help their corporate masters and robber barons) and not enough government involvement in areas that protect labor, consumers and small business competitors to these behemoths. I would agree with Paul where getting government out of the "crony capitalism" business is concerned, but not about ideas concerning regulations and protections for the masses against corporate excesses.







Post#5348 at 12-29-2011 04:33 PM by ziggyX65 [at Texas Hill Country joined Apr 2010 #posts 2,634]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Romney may be on his way to victory too, as I predicted.
Romney? Wanna bet $10,000?

Seriously, though, from the very start it's looked like a battle between Romney and the "flavor of the month" running to his right. First they said it could be Bachmann. Then it was Perry. (These two both simply made too many gaffes to overlook.)

And then it was Gingrich. (And most pundits ignored Paul despite fairly consistent strong showings.) Yet Romney has been the only constant. And if Gingrich continues to lose support, who would be left? If it doesn't go to Paul, I see no significant challenge left in the field.







Post#5349 at 12-29-2011 09:43 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Remember I just made a prediction that, because Jupiter is in his sun sign (he being the only Taurus in the race), Santorum would not drop out first because he would be doing better? Well, chalk up another one for Eric Mystic

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...mary-1588.html

It looks like he's surging in Iowa. He might be the next right-winger for the right-wing to try on for size. That is, if Paul's surge is over.

Romney may be on his way to victory too, as I predicted.
Surging Santorum? EWWWWW!!!

(Google "Santorum" and click on the first site if you don't get it)
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#5350 at 12-29-2011 09:43 PM by TeddyR [at joined Aug 2011 #posts 998]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Remember I just made a prediction that, because Jupiter is in his sun sign (he being the only Taurus in the race), Santorum would not drop out first because he would be doing better? Well, chalk up another one for Eric Mystic

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...mary-1588.html

It looks like he's surging in Iowa. He might be the next right-winger for the right-wing to try on for size. That is, if Paul's surge is over.

Romney may be on his way to victory too, as I predicted.
I also predicted Romney, as has most anyone paying attention.
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