Generational Dynamics
Fourth Turning Forum Archive


Popular links:
Generational Dynamics Web Site
Generational Dynamics Forum
Fourth Turning Archive home page
New Fourth Turning Forum

Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 253







Post#6301 at 01-26-2012 07:45 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
---
01-26-2012, 07:45 PM #6301
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
David Kaiser '47
Posts
5,220

Is that the US Bank? You can't read it on my screen.







Post#6302 at 01-26-2012 07:50 PM by Wes84 [at joined Jun 2009 #posts 856]
---
01-26-2012, 07:50 PM #6302
Join Date
Jun 2009
Posts
856

Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Something very weird is going on with Ann Coulter. This column combines all-out attacks upon Newt with a fawning attitude towards Romney that is worthy of the candidate's own wife. It's not that I have any respect for her, I don't, I'm just fascinated by the depth of her feeling, especially since Romney is hardly the kind of politician she usually likes. Coulter has a reputation as a pretty free spirit herself. I can't help wondering if she and Newt might have a past.
Doesn't Coulter have a reputation for being "socially active"?
Generation: Millennial (Gen Y)







Post#6303 at 01-26-2012 07:52 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
---
01-26-2012, 07:52 PM #6303
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
David Kaiser '47
Posts
5,220

Quote Originally Posted by Wes84 View Post
Doesn't Coulter have a reputation for being "socially active"?
That was what I meant, yes.







Post#6304 at 01-26-2012 09:12 PM by wtrg8 [at NoVA joined Dec 2008 #posts 1,262]
---
01-26-2012, 09:12 PM #6304
Join Date
Dec 2008
Location
NoVA
Posts
1,262

Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Radind, that makes perfect sense, but if you read the column I linked, my point is, that isn't the way it reads at all. If you substituted Obama for Gingrich and Reagan for Romney in that column, it would sound more like her.

And yes, Romney has never struck me as the kind of Republican she would like. I don't mean to sound like a conspiracist but I think there's some one--Rove maybe?--trying to enforce some sanity among top Republicans and their acolytes in the media like Coulter and Will. Meanwhile, Limbaugh and Hannity, I believe, are standing up for the Newt.
The 'Conservative' Rockefellar Branch has finally imploded on itself. Pundit's like Coulter have double-downed on the GOP so she has a poor choice to choose from.







Post#6305 at 01-26-2012 09:44 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
01-26-2012, 09:44 PM #6305
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Quote Originally Posted by Aramea View Post
This is probably at the base of what is actually going on with our economic situation. It has occurred to me over the last few years that it is likely that we simply do not need everyone working 40 hours per week, every week to adequately meet the needs of the population. We have compensated by creating "services" to do for people and paper-pushing jobs that may not really need to be done. The rest can't find work. It would certainly get my attention for a candidate (obviously not 2012) to map out a plan for a 30-hour week or one-month on/one month off, etc. Is that a 4T regeneracy type issue or more of a 2T morality issue? It will be a hard sell to hard boiled older Xers, but Millennials will probably be more accepting. It is true that most humans are wary of anyone that is fed and housed without working for it even when you point out the obvious issues with over-saturation, automation and outsourcing.
Exactly what I have been saying too.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#6306 at 01-26-2012 09:58 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
---
01-26-2012, 09:58 PM #6306
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
David Kaiser '47
Posts
5,220

Turns out Romney's tax return doesn't match the information on the financial disclosure forms he filed with the FEC. This is potentially a crime although he can claim it was all a mistake. Stay tuned.







Post#6307 at 01-26-2012 09:59 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
---
01-26-2012, 09:59 PM #6307
Join Date
Nov 2008
Location
In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky
Posts
9,432

Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Is that the US Bank? You can't read it on my screen.
It's a Political cartoon from the day typically put into history books, as I'm sure you know.

A satire on Andrew Jackson's campaign to destroy the Bank of the United States and its support among state banks. Jackson, Martin Van Buren, and Jack Downing struggle against a snake with heads representing the states. Jackson (on the left) raises a cane marked "Veto" and says, "Biddle thou Monster Avaunt!! avaount I say! or by the Great Eternal I'll cleave thee to the earth, aye thee and thy four and twenty satellites. Matty if thou art true...come on. if thou art false, may the venomous monster turn his dire fang upon thee..." Van Buren: "Well done General, Major Jack Downing, Adams, Clay, well done all. I dislike dissentions beyond every thing, for it often compels a man to play a double part, were it only for his own safety. Policy, policy is my motto, but intrigues I cannot countenance." Downing (dropping his axe): "Now now you nasty varmint, be you imperishable? I swan Gineral that are beats all I reckon, that's the horrible wiper wot wommits wenemous heads I guess..." The largest of the heads is president of the Bank Nicholas Biddle's, which wears a top hat labeled "Penn" (i.e. Pennsylvania) and "$35,000,000." This refers to the rechartering of the Bank by the Pennsylvania legislature in defiance of the adminstration's efforts to destroy it.
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#6308 at 01-26-2012 10:10 PM by ASB65 [at Texas joined Mar 2010 #posts 5,892]
---
01-26-2012, 10:10 PM #6308
Join Date
Mar 2010
Location
Texas
Posts
5,892

Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Turns out Romney's tax return doesn't match the information on the financial disclosure forms he filed with the FEC. This is potentially a crime although he can claim it was all a mistake. Stay tuned.
Last week on CNN, Gloria Borger said that according to insiders in the Romney campaign the reason why Romney was reluctant about releasing his tax return was because he had donated over a million dollars to the Mormon church and that was what the campaign was more concerned about than anything. I guess they figured the evangelical base would have a problem with that. So we will see if that actually becomes an issue or if there are other things that will become a bigger deal.







Post#6309 at 01-26-2012 10:12 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
---
01-26-2012, 10:12 PM #6309
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
David Kaiser '47
Posts
5,220

Just read a huge excerpt from Limbaugh's show today. It was extraordinarily rambling and confused, not like himself at all. It was all about Newt, Reagan, and the attack on Newt, an he can't really decide which side to come down on. Rather interesting.







Post#6310 at 01-26-2012 11:09 PM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
---
01-26-2012, 11:09 PM #6310
Join Date
Feb 2010
Location
Atlanta, GA US
Posts
3,605

Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Turns out Romney's tax return doesn't match the information on the financial disclosure forms he filed with the FEC. This is potentially a crime although he can claim it was all a mistake. Stay tuned.
I am amazed you really that this kind of stuff is important.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#6311 at 01-26-2012 11:16 PM by SM Kovalinsky [at joined Dec 2008 #posts 725]
---
01-26-2012, 11:16 PM #6311
Join Date
Dec 2008
Posts
725

Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
I am amazed you really that this kind of stuff is important.

James50
Why is it not important?







Post#6312 at 01-26-2012 11:23 PM by ziggyX65 [at Texas Hill Country joined Apr 2010 #posts 2,634]
---
01-26-2012, 11:23 PM #6312
Join Date
Apr 2010
Location
Texas Hill Country
Posts
2,634

Quote Originally Posted by SM Kovalinsky View Post
Why is it not important?
Because I suspect people would ignore it or make excuses for it if it involved their preferred candidate or party. It's only worth pursuing if the "other guys" do it.
Last edited by ziggyX65; 01-26-2012 at 11:26 PM.







Post#6313 at 01-26-2012 11:56 PM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
---
01-26-2012, 11:56 PM #6313
Join Date
Feb 2010
Location
Atlanta, GA US
Posts
3,605

Quote Originally Posted by ziggyX65 View Post
Because I suspect people would ignore it or make excuses for it if it involved their preferred candidate or party. It's only worth pursuing if the "other guys" do it.
My thought exactly.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#6314 at 01-27-2012 12:42 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
---
01-27-2012, 12:42 AM #6314
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
San Jose CA
Posts
22,504

Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
I am amazed you really that this kind of stuff is important.

James50
If it isn't important, why is there a law requiring it?

What was all this stuff about Clinton supposedly disobeying the law, about what was that, again..... a stain of some kind I think.....
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#6315 at 01-27-2012 09:29 AM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
---
01-27-2012, 09:29 AM #6315
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
David Kaiser '47
Posts
5,220

Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
I am amazed you really that this kind of stuff is important.

James50
I was equally amazed to find that you thought the employees of UC Berkeley were part of a vast conspiracy.







Post#6316 at 01-27-2012 10:08 AM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
---
01-27-2012, 10:08 AM #6316
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
David Kaiser '47
Posts
5,220

A rather extraordinary set of poll numbers, at right, on the state of presidential politics. We don't like anybody.







Post#6317 at 01-27-2012 10:18 AM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
---
01-27-2012, 10:18 AM #6317
Join Date
Feb 2010
Location
Atlanta, GA US
Posts
3,605

Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
I was equally amazed to find that you thought the employees of UC Berkeley were part of a vast conspiracy.
I am just following the money. Were you not surprised at the collective impact of that one institution? I know I was surprised. They are giving the money for a reason and not just because they are boy scouts. No doubt you would have thought it important if the institution was part of the financial world.

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#6318 at 01-27-2012 10:24 AM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
---
01-27-2012, 10:24 AM #6318
Join Date
Feb 2010
Location
Atlanta, GA US
Posts
3,605

Ah, perhaps this is what is going on:

In the Chronicle of Higher Education, economist Richard Vedder notes a new development in the education marketplace that should make many of his fellow academics nervous:
The announcement of agreements between Burck Smith's StraighterLine and the Education Testing Service (ETS) and the Council on Aid to Education (CAE) to provide competency test materials to students online is potentially very important, along with several other recent developments. A little economics explains why this is so.
With regards to colleges, consumers typically have believed that there are no good substitutesthe only way a person can certify to potential employers that she/he is pretty bright, well educated, good at communicating, disciplined, etc., is by presenting a bachelor's degree diploma. College graduates typically have these positive attributes more than others, so degrees serve as an important signaling device to employers, lowering the costs of learning about the traits of the applicant. Because of the lack of good substitutes, colleges face little outside competition and can raise prices more, given their quasi-monopoly status.
As college costs rise, however, people are asking: Aren't there cheaper ways of certifying competence and skills to employers?
"This is not for everyone, of course," Vedder notes. "Many have the resources to go to expensive residential colleges, which is as much a consumption as academic/investment experience."

The crucial distinction here is actually between the "academic" and "investment" functions of higher ed. The industry has exploded over the past few decades based on a business model that focuses more on selling the college degree as a credential--an "investment" that yields an increase in one's own "human capital"--than on persuading young adults that education is intrinsically valuable.

If someone could offer a less expensive job-hunting license--one that assessed an entry-level job-seeker's worth to a prospective employer at least as accurately as a college degree does--then the demand for college would plummet, as young adults could realize the same gains from a much smaller investment.

That's where ETS and CAE come in. They will offer two tests. One, called iSkills, "measures the ability of a student to navigate and critically evaluate information from digital technology." The other, the CLA, "assesses critical learning and writing skills through use of cognitively challenging problems." As Vedder explains: "Students can tell employers, 'I did very well on the CLA and iSkills test, strong predictors of future positive work performance,' and, implicitly 'you can hire me for less than you pay college graduates who score less well on these tests.' "

If the practice became widespread, it would drive college costs down and force cost-cutting and downsizing within the higher-ed industry. So you can expect the industry to fight hard against it.
Is higher ed really just designed to offer a credential or is it education? And how much should you indenture yourself to get the credential/education?

James50
Last edited by James50; 01-27-2012 at 10:26 AM.
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton







Post#6319 at 01-27-2012 10:51 AM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
---
01-27-2012, 10:51 AM #6319
Join Date
Aug 2004
Posts
6,099

Quote Originally Posted by ziggyX65 View Post
Because I suspect people would ignore it or make excuses for it if it involved their preferred candidate or party. It's only worth pursuing if the "other guys" do it.
That is soooooo true! Had a republican enacted and did what Obama did over the past few years, there would be an uproar from this side of the aisle.
Last edited by Deb C; 01-27-2012 at 10:59 AM.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#6320 at 01-27-2012 11:04 AM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
---
01-27-2012, 11:04 AM #6320
Join Date
Jul 2001
Location
David Kaiser '47
Posts
5,220

Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
I am just following the money. Were you not surprised at the collective impact of that one institution? I know I was surprised. They are giving the money for a reason and not just because they are boy scouts. No doubt you would have thought it important if the institution was part of the financial world.

James50
I didn't interpret it as the impact of one institution, because I am quite certain that the institution played no direct role. My strong hunch is that if you took the entire size of the UC Berkeley payroll and controlled for the fact that 90% of the employees are probably Democrats then the number wouldn't be surprising at all. That's only 10,000 employees giving $100. And I just checked, and sure enough the university system has 180,000 employees, so they gave an average of less than $10 each to Obama.

The financial institutions give to both sides, like most major corporations.

Of course I agree with you about the outrageous cost and decline of higher education, and indeed, there's no one on this forum who has suffered more impact from that than I. And I plan to get even.







Post#6321 at 01-27-2012 12:03 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
---
01-27-2012, 12:03 PM #6321
Join Date
Sep 2001
Location
'47 cohort still lost in Falwelland
Posts
16,709

Quote Originally Posted by James50 View Post
Red State socialism. Grey Badger has some explaining to do. Keep in mind the red-blue determination is based on 2004 presidential election so it is a little off.

As for Georgia, I am still not apologizing for asking the feds to kick in on deepening the Savannah River to handle the new Panamax ships.

"Internal improvements" they used to call it.

James50
Would Georgia be willing to bear 80% of the costs? If not, why not?
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#6322 at 01-27-2012 12:22 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
---
01-27-2012, 12:22 PM #6322
Join Date
Sep 2001
Location
'47 cohort still lost in Falwelland
Posts
16,709

Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
A rather extraordinary set of poll numbers, at right, on the state of presidential politics. We don't like anybody.
The demagoguery is now complete. Lewis Powell would be ever so pleased.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#6323 at 01-27-2012 12:27 PM by ziggyX65 [at Texas Hill Country joined Apr 2010 #posts 2,634]
---
01-27-2012, 12:27 PM #6323
Join Date
Apr 2010
Location
Texas Hill Country
Posts
2,634

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
The demagoguery is now complete. Lewis Powell would be ever so pleased.
If this holds and is to be believed, Obama might win this one by default.







Post#6324 at 01-27-2012 12:46 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
---
01-27-2012, 12:46 PM #6324
Join Date
Jul 2005
Location
NYC
Posts
10,443

Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
I can't disagree with those points. There is no limit on how much our government can spend; the Fed and/or the Treasury just needs to choose to do so. Too often this spending is used to prop up capitalist cronies, as David Stockman is pointing out now. The sound money folks like Ron Paul say the Fed should be abolished because of this lack of constraint. The other side of the coin from yourself!
MMTers are not enamored of the FED. It is as archaic as Ron Paul and for the same reason - we are not on the gold standard (and, it would be devastating for our economy and society to try to return to it).

The FED should be returned to solely its primary role of check clearing, maintaining reserve requirements and bank regulation (which should be increased in order to return banking to it boring former self); no more monetary policies - they are an anachronism. A key part of that would be to terminate the service provided primarily to the elites issuing federal govt bonds. The biggest benefit, of course, would be to finally and completely destroy the myth that the federal govt needs to borrow its own dollars- and maybe folks would start acting like adults a little more.

Managing the economy should be greatly simplified by the federal govt sufficiently spending (i.e. injecting dollars into the economy) to foster full employment and sufficiently reducing spending or raise taxing (i.e., removing dollars from the economy) when needed for price stabilization. After that, most equity issues will disappear (but, I'd be okay with the govt attempting to deal with those that remain). Much of the desired social engineering (e.g. supporting the old and infirm, educating our youth and giving them a boast up, research and development, building/maintaining public infrastructure ) could then be dealt through the relatively much more open spending policy rather than by the highly cloaked machinations of tax policy. Yes, spending policy is more inefficent as a process, but that is how it should be - classical arguments over how big govt should be and what it should be attempting - those arguments should not be constrainted by the current idioacy that surrounds the ignorance of how our monetary system actually works.

With that in place, I'd would finally be able to sail off to French Polynesia knowing my work was done.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#6325 at 01-27-2012 01:06 PM by James50 [at Atlanta, GA US joined Feb 2010 #posts 3,605]
---
01-27-2012, 01:06 PM #6325
Join Date
Feb 2010
Location
Atlanta, GA US
Posts
3,605

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
Would Georgia be willing to bear 80% of the costs? If not, why not?
If I am reading in-state politics right, Georgia would pay 100% if necessary. Your 80% figure is nice, but there is a huge difference in $14B (big dig) and $600M (deepening Savannah Harbor).

James50
The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. - G.K. Chesterton
-----------------------------------------