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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 266







Post#6626 at 02-04-2012 01:47 PM by summer in the fall [at joined Jul 2011 #posts 1,540]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
Quote Originally Posted by summer in the fall View Post
Radind, James and David were having a legal debate, not a religious (moral) one. If you don't want to frame your argument in terms of its legal merit, play with someone else.

Best...
You may ignore me, but I can make comments as i think approriate. I am not playing.
That's why I said "play with someone else." Your comments admittedly bare no relevance to my original statements on legal arguments. If you want to keep "playing" keep responding to a discussion you claim you're not having...

Best...







Post#6627 at 02-04-2012 02:07 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
Good question. Are universities considered businesses?
I would assume that they are considered a business. I suppose the criteria would be that they have employees and make money?

BUSINESS: a: the activity of making, buying, or selling goods or providing services in exchange for money
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#6628 at 02-04-2012 03:09 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
This is possibly the dumbest controversy in a string of dumb controversies instigated by religion.

Some of the articles claim Obama is "forcing nuns to hand out diaphragms" but this is just a matter of requiring certain minimum standards in healthcare plans. What good is mandating insurance when one of the most commonly used prescriptions isn't covered?

What are they going to complain about next? The fact that health insurance covers prenatal care for unwed mothers?

Give me a break. And welcome to the 21st century.
Yep. Viagra for old geezers that can't get their thingy up? A-OK. The Pill for women who don't want to get pregnant? THE HORROR!!!

The double standard is pathetic, I don't give a damn if you think it's the will of your made-up skyy-daddy.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#6629 at 02-04-2012 03:12 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
This could be huge in states like Penn. and Wisconsin that have large Catholic populations that can swing the vote to Romney. Perhaps in many states weith large Hispanic populations like New Mexico, Florida and Nevada too.
Hispanics will not vote for a Republican, not after the horrific "immigration" laws in Arizona and Alabama backed by racists. The Republican Party had a choicer between Hispanics and Neo-Confederates, they picked the later.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#6630 at 02-04-2012 03:13 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
And the more I think about these whining Catholics the more it ticks me off. I'd love to be able to hide my business from the law behind religious claims, but in this country a religion is only "legitimate" if your holy book starts with Genesis and ends with a significant voting bloc.

Then they take all those tax breaks and legal exemptions and cry that they're oppressed. With a straight face!

They look at the holidays they stole (Christmas, Easter) and complain they've gotten too popular, to the point they're not celebrated "correctly."

Someone needs to stand up to this crap and call them out on their BS, because the various churches in this country have regularly held our political system hostage while we ignore the real problems we have to deal with.

The fact that it is 2012 and people are publicly offended by birth control - and encouraged by the media & pundits! - only goes to show how very backwards and dysfunctional American politics is.
I am in complete agreement.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#6631 at 02-04-2012 03:50 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Hispanics will not vote for a Republican, not after the horrific "immigration" laws in Arizona and Alabama backed by racists. The Republican Party had a choicer between Hispanics and Neo-Confederates, they picked the later.
Yes I'm sure enforcing the law is a very KKK-ish thing. While the Dems might get the massive numbers of the barrio vote by waving the bloody shirt of "the GOP is out to get you", I think more sensible voters in the rising Hispanic middle class will be objective. Hispanics split almost evenly for Bush and Kerry in 2004.







Post#6632 at 02-04-2012 03:52 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2...ws-steeper.php

Here's an interesting article on Obama's approval ratings by state and how it ties in with his electoral prospects.







Post#6633 at 02-04-2012 03:54 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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Any thoughts on who Romney's VP might be or what his Cabinet might look like? Personally I think Mike Huckabee would be an excellent balance to the ticket (or Marco Rubio but he has constantly declined any ideas of running for VP) and I'd like to see Jon Huntsman be Secretary of State.







Post#6634 at 02-04-2012 03:54 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
Yes I'm sure enforcing the law is a very KKK-ish thing. While the Dems might get the massive numbers of the barrio vote by waving the bloody shirt of "the GOP is out to get you", I think more sensible voters in the rising Hispanic middle class will be objective. Hispanics split almost evenly for Bush and Kerry in 2004.
"barrio vote"? your bigotry is showing.

Hispanics don't like seeing their families destroyed by deportation, and young AMERICAN CITIZENS being forced to live in a country they have never lived in because their parents were deported.

Those immigration laws are racist, and anyone who supports them are racist.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#6635 at 02-04-2012 04:14 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Talking

Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
Any thoughts on who Romney's VP might be or what his Cabinet might look like? Personally I think Mike Huckabee would be an excellent balance to the ticket (or Marco Rubio but he has constantly declined any ideas of running for VP) and I'd like to see Jon Huntsman be Secretary of State.
My guess for VP may be Condi Rice or Marco Rubio. The Daily Caller had an intriguing choice. Cathy McMorris-Rodgers congresswoman from Spokane WA.







Post#6636 at 02-04-2012 04:19 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
"barrio vote"? your bigotry is showing.
Not anymore than "redneck".

Hispanics don't like seeing their families destroyed by deportation, and young AMERICAN CITIZENS being forced to live in a country they have never lived in because their parents were deported.
I actually support a pass to citizenship for illegal immigrants but at the same time I don't think most Hispanics are single-issue voters.
Those immigration laws are racist, and anyone who supports them are racist.
I don't support those laws but this sort of rhetoric is exactly what makes people see anybody who support illegal immigrants and a path of citizenship for them as some sort of La Raza talking heads.







Post#6637 at 02-04-2012 04:20 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
Hispanics will not vote for a Republican, not after the horrific "immigration" laws in Arizona and Alabama backed by racists. The Republican Party had a choicer between Hispanics and Neo-Confederates, they picked the later.
Worth noting -- Catholics are much more liberal than the Catholic Church and even the US as a whole on reproductive rights. The Catholic Church can preach all that it wants, but about all that it can enforce is that people not copulate within a church while using birth control. (It obviously frowns upon copulating within any church building). That said, the parish priest surely hears lots of confessions about using birth control -- over and over.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#6638 at 02-04-2012 04:22 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
My guess for VP may be Condi Rice or Marco Rubio. The Daily Caller had an intriguing choice. Cathy McMorris-Rodgers congresswoman from Spokane WA.
I think Secretary Rice is too associated with the Bush administration-as for Representative Mc-Morris-Roders I think she might be too similar to Sarah Palin (fairly obscure originally, from the same part of the country) for comfort. She also graduated from Pensacola Christian College, which make Bob Jones University look like UC Berkeley in comparison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensaco...istian_College
Last edited by General Mung Beans; 02-04-2012 at 04:27 PM.







Post#6639 at 02-04-2012 04:25 PM by Lady Vagina [at California joined Jul 2011 #posts 131]
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Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
Not anymore than "redneck".



I actually support a pass to citizenship for illegal immigrants but at the same time I don't think most Hispanics are single-issue voters.


I don't support those laws but this sort of rhetoric is exactly what makes people see anybody who support illegal immigrants and a path of citizenship for them as some sort of La Raza talking heads.
So a bunch of inbred types do not like La Raza. Too bad.







Post#6640 at 02-04-2012 04:30 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
Yes I'm sure enforcing the law is a very KKK-ish thing. While the Dems might get the massive numbers of the barrio vote by waving the bloody shirt of "the GOP is out to get you", I think more sensible voters in the rising Hispanic middle class will be objective. Hispanics split almost evenly for Bush and Kerry in 2004.
Barrio? The "sensible Latino middle class" knows where it comes from, and people like JPT keep reminding them of such. It's a losing proposition.

You fail to recognize that the Hispanic vote irrespective of income is hostile to the anti-intellectualism and divisiveness of the Hard Right. That anti-intellectualism doesn't stop at some radical professor but instead all the way to the grade-school teacher. The largest occupational section of the middle class is school teachers. Anti-intellectualism directed at education is a losing proposition except among people doomed as losers irrespective of ethnicity.

That is not only a Hispanic phenomenon, by the way.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#6641 at 02-04-2012 04:32 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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Quote Originally Posted by Lady Vagina View Post
So a bunch of inbred types do not like La Raza. Too bad.
What an enlightened, unbigoted, and tolerant comment!







Post#6642 at 02-04-2012 04:37 PM by Lady Vagina [at California joined Jul 2011 #posts 131]
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Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
What an enlightened, unbigoted, and tolerant comment!
We must stop giving in to the most unprogressive members of society. I guess you will tell me why you think we should?







Post#6643 at 02-04-2012 04:39 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Barrio? The "sensible Latino middle class" knows where it comes from, and people like JPT keep reminding them of such. It's a losing proposition.

You fail to recognize that the Hispanic vote irrespective of income is hostile to the anti-intellectualism and divisiveness of the Hard Right. That anti-intellectualism doesn't stop at some radical professor but instead all the way to the grade-school teacher. The largest occupational section of the middle class is school teachers. Anti-intellectualism directed at education is a losing proposition except among people doomed as losers irrespective of ethnicity.

That is not only a Hispanic phenomenon, by the way.
How is the right anti-intellectual in the sense of opposing school teachers? Their main problem with school teachers is the power of the teachers' unions. In fact right now in LA, a teacher who has been charged with child molestation is on paid law because state law mandates that and even if he does get fired if the charges prove true he will get a pension.







Post#6644 at 02-04-2012 04:41 PM by General Mung Beans [at joined Sep 2009 #posts 384]
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Quote Originally Posted by Lady Vagina View Post
We must stop giving in to the most unprogressive members of society. I guess you will tell me why you think we should?
I meant your referral of people as "inbred types", if I referred to blacks as "bastards" (in the illegitimate sense) for example that would correctly be regarded as bigoted and condemned.







Post#6645 at 02-04-2012 04:46 PM by Lady Vagina [at California joined Jul 2011 #posts 131]
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Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
I meant your referral of people as "inbred types", if I referred to blacks as "bastards" (in the illegitimate sense) for example that would correctly be regarded as bigoted and condemned.
This does not make any sense. The racists are that way because they are inbred, and proud of it. The fact that when you think of African Americans, you think of them as illegitimate says much about your sub consciouis thinking wrt them, and to your attitude toward sexual relationships free of religious chains. But many people are not very careful wrt to either of these things.







Post#6646 at 02-04-2012 05:05 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Worth noting -- Catholics are much more liberal than the Catholic Church and even the US as a whole on reproductive rights. The Catholic Church can preach all that it wants, but about all that it can enforce is that people not copulate within a church while using birth control. (It obviously frowns upon copulating within any church building). That said, the parish priest surely hears lots of confessions about using birth control -- over and over.
In addition, the Catholic church is getting more and more conservative in some areas. Crazy as this must seem, some bishops are writing the scripts for many parish priests on the topic of the *sin* of voting for a *choice* candidate. They did it when Kerry was running for president.

While there are some Catholics who will turn a deaf ear, the more conservative crowd will follow the Vatican's orders. Sad but sure.
"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#6647 at 02-04-2012 05:20 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
I think Secretary Rice is too associated with the Bush administration-as for Representative Mc-Morris-Roders I think she might be too similar to Sarah Palin (fairly obscure originally, from the same part of the country) for comfort. She also graduated from Pensacola Christian College, which make Bob Jones University look like UC Berkeley in comparison: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pensaco...istian_College
She's much more politically accomplished than Palin was. She also has an MBA from the University of Washington

GO HUSKIES!







Post#6648 at 02-04-2012 05:33 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by General Mung Beans View Post
http://decoded.nationaljournal.com/2...ws-steeper.php

Here's an interesting article on Obama's approval ratings by state and how it ties in with his electoral prospects.
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/ind...topic=148376.0

The states, and not the People, elect the President -- as shown in 2000. In 2008 President Obama lost a bunch of states by huge margins while winning a bunch of other states by lesser margins. So far I see no reason to believe that President Obama will make significant inroads into the states that he lost badly... unless perhaps Newt Gingrich, who seems not to know which side is up in a Presidential campaign is the nominee.

Eighteen states and the District of Columbia have never voted for any Republican nominee for President since at least the elder Bush against Dukakis. President Obama won every one of those states by at least 10%. He could easily do much the same in 2012 in those states. Add Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and New Mexico, all of which he won by at least 8% and he crosses the victory line with with 272 electoral votes. That is against Mitt Romney. Then add Ohio, which President Obama likely won with the auto bailout and it is up to 290 electoral votes. Those are the states in blue -- likely Obama wins.

I now project the states in white to be winnable for President Obama to be inside the margin of error but winnable for President Obama. The Republicans could win all of the rest of the states by 20% and end up with a near-even split in the nationwide popular vote... but President Obama would still win

The case gets stronger against Gingrich.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#6649 at 02-04-2012 05:34 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by radind View Post
Good question. Are universities considered businesses?
Well, and not to pick on your state specifically, but the state of Alabama does have two professional football teams. One at Auburn and the other at Tuscaloosa.







Post#6650 at 02-04-2012 05:46 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/ind...topic=148376.0

The states, and not the People, elect the President -- as shown in 2000. In 2008 President Obama lost a bunch of states by huge margins while winning a bunch of other states by lesser margins. So far I see no reason to believe that President Obama will make significant inroads into the states that he lost badly... unless perhaps Newt Gingrich, who seems not to know which side is up in a Presidential campaign is the nominee.

Eighteen states and the District of Columbia have never voted for any Republican nominee for President since at least the elder Bush against Dukakis. President Obama won every one of those states by at least 10%. He could easily do much the same in 2012 in those states. Add Colorado, Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire, and New Mexico, all of which he won by at least 8% and he crosses the victory line with with 272 electoral votes. That is against Mitt Romney. Then add Ohio, which President Obama likely won with the auto bailout and it is up to 290 electoral votes. Those are the states in blue -- likely Obama wins.

I now project the states in white to be winnable for President Obama to be inside the margin of error but winnable for President Obama. The Republicans could win all of the rest of the states by 20% and end up with a near-even split in the nationwide popular vote... but President Obama would still win

The case gets stronger against Gingrich.
You could also argue the reverse, Romney could win the electoral college with Obama running up large advantages in California, New York Illinois etc. Its amazing though that we are talking about a 290 electoral college win for Obama which would mean the House stays Repub and they probably would pick the Senate as well. A weak victory of an incumbent and frankly I could live with that result as Obama could do no further damage....
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