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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 286







Post#7126 at 02-14-2012 03:26 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Most Catholics will forget this culture war when it comes time to decide between more trickle-down economics and sensible economic policies that help the recovery.

This is not a freedom of religion issue. It is an issue of allowing church fathers from a foreign country to impose church doctrine and dictate behavior to Americans, forcing employees who don't belong to the church to buy expensive contraceptives on their own.
59% of Catholics disagree with your idea of what the issue is.....

You can rest assured that whoever the Republican candidate is, they will remind voters of how the Obama regime has been trampling on religious freedoms....







Post#7127 at 02-14-2012 03:32 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
I don't believe that's completely true--though I will say that the Neo-Cons did their best to push Rockefellers out of the party in the 90s.

~Chas'88
The Republican presidential candidates range from the "severely conservative" Romney to the "true conservative" Santorum. Not much choice in that I'm afraid! The severely libertarian Paul is not even big enough to be a wing, and falls right in line behind trickle-down economics.

Meanwhile we have the most conservative House in history by far, and they vote as a disciplined block. And the conservative Republicans control many Statehouses too.

This bird can't fly far, and this bird you cannot change.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#7128 at 02-14-2012 03:36 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
59% of Catholics disagree with your idea of what the issue is.....
Polls are volatile Weave.
You can rest assured that whoever the Republican candidate is, they will remind voters of how the Obama regime has been trampling on religious freedoms....
But when people see the truth of who is really trampling on "freedoms," that "reminder" will fall on deaf ears.

The Catholic Church is one of the most oppressive institutions in history. And sometimes continues to be.

Obama is not only going to win, he may win big. I just hope he grows some coattails, so we can clean out the House and stop the "tea party" going on there.

In the latest poll, Obama's approval rating is positive:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...oval-1044.html

and he beats Romney by 5 points.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...bama-1171.html
Last edited by Eric the Green; 02-14-2012 at 03:40 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#7129 at 02-14-2012 03:47 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Polls are volatile Weave.

But when people see the truth of who is really trampling on "freedoms," that "reminder" will fall on deaf ears.

The Catholic Church is one of the most oppressive institutions in history. And sometimes continues to be.

Obama is not only going to win, he may win big. I just hope he grows some coattails, so we can clean out the House and stop the "tea party" going on there.

In the latest poll, Obama's approval rating is positive:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...oval-1044.html

and he beats Romney by 5 points.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...bama-1171.html
Yeah you'll win over the Catholic vote by telling them how repressive their religion is.... Good luck with that.
We'll see how popular Obama is when gas is 5.00/gallon this summer which sends the economy into a tailspin...
http://www.mcall.com/business/mc-gas...tory?track=rss







Post#7130 at 02-14-2012 03:54 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Yeah you'll win over the Catholic vote by telling them how repressive their religion is.... Good luck with that.
If they can't get contraceptives anymore, they will feel the oppression. Noone will have to tell them anything; the truth will dawn on people as the Catholic church fathers continue to press their doctrine.

Obama has such low negatives on his astrological reading, that he is virtually gaffe proof. He is as careful and politic as they come. He won't offend Catholics, even if I might!
We'll see how popular Obama is when gas is 5.00/gallon this summer which sends the economy into a tailspin...
http://www.mcall.com/business/mc-gas...tory?track=rss
We'll see indeed. I am still predicting the economy will continue its modest recovery through 2012 and 2013.

Remember, I have a crystal ball too. Though I myself may be biased, It doesn't even take political sides!
Last edited by Eric the Green; 02-14-2012 at 03:56 PM.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#7131 at 02-14-2012 04:08 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
That wasn't my question.
Are you more concerned about being able to pay for treatment, or the pain and agony of suffering through the disease?
Since I don't have the disease, of course I'm more concerned with staying healthy and not having the disease. However, if I do get sick, since I'll already be sick, I certainly will be concerned about paying for it.

I think this is common sense and would apply to anyone. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#7132 at 02-14-2012 04:08 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Yeah you'll win over the Catholic vote by telling them how repressive their religion is.... Good luck with that.
We'll see how popular Obama is when gas is 5.00/gallon this summer which sends the economy into a tailspin...
http://www.mcall.com/business/mc-gas...tory?track=rss
We just need a good share of the 98% of Catholic women who have used contraceptives.

You do know that the $5 gas is solely a result of geopolitics surrounding the Iran issue? Yea, it could heat up and go to $5 and the cause will be even more evident. The question is - do you want a geopolitical neophyte like Romney dealing with it or the guy who's winding down the mistakes of the last Rightee moron, GWB and, oh yea, Obama, the guy that actually got bin Laden?

Then there's the other possibility of Iran cooling off as an issue and gas prices collapsing. Pretty sure that's not going to cause Obama any trouble. It likely would mean the end of Putin however.

You guys are so screwed - pretty clearly indicated when your final hope is increased gas prices. Hey, maybe if you click your heels together and pray really really hard, we can get the Black Plague going and kill off a few million people - that will really show that Obama.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#7133 at 02-14-2012 04:12 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
If they can't get contraceptives anymore, they will feel the oppression. Noone will have to tell them anything; the truth will dawn on people as the Catholic church fathers continue to press their doctrine.

Obama has such low negatives on his astrological reading, that he is virtually gaffe proof. He is as careful and politic as they come. He won't offend Catholics, even if I might!


We'll see indeed. I am still predicting the economy will continue its modest recovery through 2012 and 2013.

Remember, I have a crystal ball too. Though I myself may be biased, It doesn't even take political sides!

Since they havent had "free" contraceptives up until now, Im pretty sure anyone who uses them has found a way to obtain them. Planned parenthood and the local health department can provide them for free or basically cheap. Its not like its hard to get....

Obama has already offended them, at least 59% of them and has damaged his brand in critical states for his re-election.







Post#7134 at 02-14-2012 04:14 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
Since I don't have the disease, of course I'm more concerned with staying healthy and not having the disease. However, if I do get sick, since I'll already be sick, I certainly will be concerned about paying for it.

I think this is common sense and would apply to anyone. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
I don't think your wrong.

However, the most fascinating thing about your exchange with Rani is finding out she's a published author -

http://www.amazon.com/Would-You-Rath.../dp/0452278511

and its -

#1 in Books > 4-for-3 Books > Entertainment > Puzzles & Games > Quizzes

Wow, impressive!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#7135 at 02-14-2012 04:17 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Since they havent had "free" contraceptives up until now, Im pretty sure anyone who uses them has found a way to obtain them. Planned parenthood and the local health department can provide them for free or basically cheap. Its not like its hard to get....

Obama has already offended them, at least 59% of them and has damaged his brand in critical states for his re-election.
Wow, you Google "catholic support obama" and you really see who the outlier is.

That Rasmussen guy must be a lot of fun at drunken parties!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#7136 at 02-14-2012 04:21 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
We just need a good share of the 98% of Catholic women who have used contraceptives.

You do know that the $5 gas is solely a result of geopolitics surrounding the Iran issue? Yea, it could heat up and go to $5 and the cause will be even more evident. The question is - do you want a geopolitical neophyte like Romney dealing with it or the guy who's winding down the mistakes of the last Rightee moron, GWB and, oh yea, Obama, the guy that actually got bin Laden?

Then there's the other possibility of Iran cooling off as an issue and gas prices collapsing. Pretty sure that's not going to cause Obama any trouble. It likely would mean the end of Putin however.

You guys are so screwed - pretty clearly indicated when your final hope is increased gas prices. Hey, maybe if you click your heels together and pray really really hard, we can get the Black Plague going and kill off a few million people - that will really show that Obama.
Romney would deal with Iran much more effectively than Obama who has encouraged thier aggression with his limp wristed responses to their actions. They dont repsect him at all. He should have embraced the Green revolution in 2009, he decided to play pattycakes with the murderous regime.

As far as the economy, gas prices are only one of many issiues that will hammer Obama. 5 trillion added to the debt, high unemployment, Obamacare...please...The Republican will have a field day hammering away at Obama.
Obama has the power of incumbancy and that is to be respected. He has a charming personality and will be formidable. But he is also extremely vulnerable. If the economy does improve dramtically he'll most likely win. If it continues to bounce along the bottom with 2% growth rates he can beaten.







Post#7137 at 02-14-2012 04:24 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
If they can't get contraceptives anymore, they will feel the oppression. Noone will have to tell them anything; the truth will dawn on people as the Catholic church fathers continue to press their doctrine.
They already defy the church teachings, in huge numbers.







Post#7138 at 02-14-2012 04:27 PM by Child of Socrates [at Cybrarian from America's Dairyland, 1961 cohort joined Sep 2001 #posts 14,092]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
Since I don't have the disease, of course I'm more concerned with staying healthy and not having the disease. However, if I do get sick, since I'll already be sick, I certainly will be concerned about paying for it.

I think this is common sense and would apply to anyone. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
You aren't wrong. People can do everything right and still get screwed. You don't have control over your genetics. You also don't have control over that drunk guy who slams into you with his car. It's called "insurance" for a reason.







Post#7139 at 02-14-2012 04:45 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Romney would deal with Iran much more effectively than Obama who has encouraged thier aggression with his limp wristed responses to their actions. They dont repsect him at all. He should have embraced the Green revolution in 2009, he decided to play pattycakes with the murderous regime.
yea, I understand Romeny made a deal with The Donald - Mitt got the endorsement, Trump will be our new Secrtary of State. He'll jet right over to Tehran and FIRE Ahmadinejad!

Whoo-hoo! Mission Accomplished!

And just to note, Obama has put in place sanctions on Iran that would have given Bush wet dreams - that is, if he wasn't dreaming about looking into Putin's eyes.

Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
As far as the economy, gas prices are only one of many issiues that will hammer Obama. 5 trillion added to the debt, high unemployment, Obamacare...please...The Republican will have a field day hammering away at Obama.

Obama has the power of incumbancy and that is to be respected. He has a charming personality and will be formidable. But he is also extremely vulnerable. If the economy does improve dramtically he'll most likely win. If it continues to bounce along the bottom with 2% growth rates he can beaten.
Like I've been saying, if Obama gets the federal deficit spending that's on the table (and its looking like he will), the unemployment rate will be coming down - and analysis shows that its not the absolute rate but the current trend. I think that's particularly true when you see what was handed off to him by the last Rightee in power. I don't think Americans are stupid enough to hand the car keys back to those that drove us into the ditch.

Obamacare cuts both ways, but as time increases and people see not so much the benefits but that the world, specifically Medicare, didn't come to an end, the more its going to be as impenetrable as Social Security (can't wait until post 2014 to see t-baggers with signs "Keep the Socialist Govt Hands off my Obamacare!!!). The wildcard is the Supreme Court decision this summer - whichever way it goes, it will just rile up the base of the losing side, however.

What you all have left is the federal deficit. However, as I said before, with our ace-in-the-hole, Paul Ryan, reminding everyone that we have to throw grandma from the cliff to deal with the deficit, I think you're going to lose a lot of enthusiasm for your brand.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#7140 at 02-14-2012 04:52 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I don't think so either, but I find it very strange to see the disproportionate level of concern about paying for treatment vs concern about contracting an illness.
Rich or poor, you still have to suffer through the disease.
I'm confused. As usually, you ladies are talking way about my level. I think you all are saying good stuff, but don't know for sure; however, you're all extremely nice.

I'll just slink off here now.

However, if you could all put in a positive word about coverage for Viagra, that would be nice. You know, it's Valentine's Day!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#7141 at 02-14-2012 06:03 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Wow, you Google "catholic support obama" and you really see who the outlier is.

That Rasmussen guy must be a lot of fun at drunken parties!
I guess if Weave relies on Rasmussen, that explains it. They are always the outlier, if there is one. And usually on the right. It's interesting too that they are the one that is more likely to show Santorum or Gingrich doing better than Romney. That shows just HOW FAR to the right they are.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#7142 at 02-14-2012 06:08 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Romney would deal with Iran much more effectively than Obama, who has encouraged thier aggression with his limp wristed responses to their actions. They don't respect him at all. He should have embraced the Green revolution in 2009, he decided to play pattycakes with the murderous regime.
Maybe that's right. But will the voters trust the one who got bin Laden, or the one with no experience at all in foreign affairs, and whose only method is to bluster and threaten rather than negotiate with enemies? To discourage their aggression is to do what, that Obama has not done recently? Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran? That would do wonders for gas prices!
As far as the economy, gas prices are only one of many issiues that will hammer Obama. 5 trillion added to the debt, high unemployment, Obamacare...please...The Republican will have a field day hammering away at Obama.
These other things are not going to slow the recovery. Exchanging Obama's mildly-stimulate policies for those that caused the depression to begin with, is not going to help the recovery.
Obama has the power of incumbancy and that is to be respected. He has a charming personality and will be formidable. But he is also extremely vulnerable. If the economy does improve dramatically he'll most likely win. If it continues to bounce along the bottom with 2% growth rates he can beaten.
I can't quarrel with that, but my crystal ball is pretty clear on this one.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#7143 at 02-14-2012 06:08 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by ASB65 View Post
He works from home. So he generally eats a sandwich for lunch from our refrigerator. And we very rarely eat out when he is home, since he is generally gone for a month or two at time, he is pretty much sick out eating out by the time he gets home.

And I do think that kids still run around and play. There are always kids riding bikes or scooters and playing outside on our street. So I'm not so sure that is truly the explanation for the obesity in kids either. In some cases, perhaps, but you can't blame it totally on that.
The kids of the Old Rich watch little TV and thus get little exposure to television advertising. In their elite boarding schools they get little access to fast foods. I suspect that their tradition-bound world keeps them physically active when they aren't tied to an archaic world of antiquarian teaching. As teenagers they are more likely to sail in a yacht than cruise in a car -- and there is no fast-food eatery offshore. The true middle class and the upper working class (skilled trades) still has enough economic security to have bicycles and scooters and can use them... and maybe a basketball hoop over the garage door or at the side of the driveway. There might be dance lessons; dance is good exercise that precludes snacking at the time. The kids of the working poor live in cramped apartments wherein their primary entertainment is TV. While watching TV they get to devour sugary drinks, candy, and starchy snacks while imbibing the commercials that push junk food.

Getting little exercise and eating foods high in sugar, starch, and fat is a way to get fat -- fast -- while getting no alternative ideas of how to live. The commercials eventually push mass-market beer to young adults -- another contributor to obesity.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#7144 at 02-14-2012 06:11 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Getting little exercise and eating foods high in sugar, starch, and fat is a way to get fat -- fast -- while getting no alternative ideas of how to live. The commercials eventually push mass-market beer to young adults -- another contributor to obesity.
Yeah, all the things that Charles Murray wants us in the "upper-class culture" to start doing again.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#7145 at 02-14-2012 07:07 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
The kids of the Old Rich watch little TV and thus get little exposure to television advertising. In their elite boarding schools they get little access to fast foods. I suspect that their tradition-bound world keeps them physically active when they aren't tied to an archaic world of antiquarian teaching. As teenagers they are more likely to sail in a yacht than cruise in a car -- and there is no fast-food eatery offshore. The true middle class and the upper working class (skilled trades) still has enough economic security to have bicycles and scooters and can use them... and maybe a basketball hoop over the garage door or at the side of the driveway. There might be dance lessons; dance is good exercise that precludes snacking at the time. The kids of the working poor live in cramped apartments wherein their primary entertainment is TV. While watching TV they get to devour sugary drinks, candy, and starchy snacks while imbibing the commercials that push junk food.

Getting little exercise and eating foods high in sugar, starch, and fat is a way to get fat -- fast -- while getting no alternative ideas of how to live. The commercials eventually push mass-market beer to young adults -- another contributor to obesity.
Except that Amy lives in a working class neighborhood, albeit small town.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#7146 at 02-14-2012 07:10 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
Maybe that's right. But will the voters trust the one who got bin Laden, or the one with no experience at all in foreign affairs, and whose only method is to bluster and threaten rather than negotiate with enemies? To discourage their aggression is to do what, that Obama has not done recently? Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran? That would do wonders for gas prices!

These other things are not going to slow the recovery. Exchanging Obama's mildly-stimulate policies for those that caused the depression to begin with, is not going to help the recovery.

I can't quarrel with that, but my crystal ball is pretty clear on this one.
I could be wrong on this but I vaguely recall your crystal ball predicting the Dems holding the House in 2010.....

And as far as Iran is concerned, if Obama had embraced the Green Revolution or been more aggressive in 2009, Iran may have not gotten as far as it had on nuke development. His weakness encouraged them.....

Funny, you libs had no problem voting for a foreign policy neophyte in 2008. In fact you voted for an empty suit for which we have paid a huge price not only here at home but with respects with Iran and other aggressive nations.

As far as Bin Laden is concerned, it was through the efforts of our CIA using rendition and waterboarding that we got the knowledge to find him...something you guys conveniently leave out.....
Last edited by Weave; 02-14-2012 at 07:16 PM.







Post#7147 at 02-14-2012 07:13 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
59% of Catholics disagree with your idea of what the issue is.....

You can rest assured that whoever the Republican candidate is, they will remind voters of how the Obama regime has been trampling on religious freedoms....
Religious freedom includes the ability to disobey the preaching of one's church. Some large Protestant denominations (Methodists and Baptists) oppose drinking -- but such doesn't stop drinking. So it is with Catholics on contraception. Alcohol and sex are both strong temptations. Sex with contraception in a monogamous relationship is easy to rationalize -- "at least it isn't abortion". People who could never rationalize embezzling from an employer can easily rationalize having a latte instead of contributing to an international child welfare fund.

Practically all Christian denominations (that includes Mormonism) have the concept of Sin which encompasses imperfect behavior from minor indulgences to such a horror as Holocaust perpetration. Smoking a cigarette, drinking a beer, flirting with a person not one's spouse, failing to make an 'adequate' tithe, or uttering the F-word are as much Sin -- human failure to achieve the "godly" ideal of behavior -- as is waging a war of aggression, commissioning or performing a gangland hit, committing a rape or armed robbery, trafficking in heroin, setting a pack of dogs against a randomly-selected prisoner, or casting live children into a raging furnace. In mainstream Christian doctrine, Sin is the reality of human existence. Churches would fold were it not for sinners in the pews.

Most of us in practice recognize the difference between minor indulgence and major crime. So do clergy. I can assure you that most Catholic clergy know enough to not ask whether parishioners have watched adult entertainment, performed birth control, voted for a politician who supported abortion rights, or used the Name of God in vain and then cast out anyone who did so from Mass. Maybe Opus Dei types might do differently -- but that is practically a cult anyway.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#7148 at 02-14-2012 07:20 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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02-14-2012, 07:20 PM #7148
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
Religious freedom includes the ability to disobey the preaching of one's church. Some large Protestant denominations (Methodists and Baptists) oppose drinking -- but such doesn't stop drinking. So it is with Catholics on contraception. Alcohol and sex are both strong temptations. Sex with contraception in a monogamous relationship is easy to rationalize -- "at least it isn't abortion". People who could never rationalize embezzling from an employer can easily rationalize having a latte instead of contributing to an international child welfare fund.

Practically all Christian denominations (that includes Mormonism) have the concept of Sin which encompasses imperfect behavior from minor indulgences to such a horror as Holocaust perpetration. Smoking a cigarette, drinking a beer, flirting with a person not one's spouse, failing to make an 'adequate' tithe, or uttering the F-word are as much Sin -- human failure to achieve the "godly" ideal of behavior -- as is waging a war of aggression, commissioning or performing a gangland hit, committing a rape or armed robbery, trafficking in heroin, setting a pack of dogs against a randomly-selected prisoner, or casting live children into a raging furnace. In mainstream Christian doctrine, Sin is the reality of human existence. Churches would fold were it not for sinners in the pews.

Most of us in practice recognize the difference between minor indulgence and major crime. So do clergy. I can assure you that most Catholic clergy know enough to not ask whether parishioners have watched adult entertainment, performed birth control, voted for a politician who supported abortion rights, or used the Name of God in vain and then cast out anyone who did so from Mass. Maybe Opus Dei types might do differently -- but that is practically a cult anyway.
Your point????
The argument isnt about contraception or sin, its about the government telling a religion it has to violate its beliefs.
It will be challenged if Obamacare isnt already overturned by the Supreme Court this summer because of other unconstitutional measures it demands.







Post#7149 at 02-14-2012 07:32 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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02-14-2012, 07:32 PM #7149
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Romney would deal with Iran much more effectively than Obama who has encouraged thier aggression with his limp wristed responses to their actions. They don't respect him at all. He should have embraced the Green revolution in 2009, he decided to play pattycakes with the murderous regime.

Toughest sanctions ever -- and this time they are not only the US. Dubya could have never gotten those; his cronies in the oil business would have stopped that. It would be safer for America that the thug regime face strikes as gas stations go dry in Teheran than that the President issue empty, bellicose threats of imminent war. It really is true -- Iran has no oil refineries and must import motor fuels!

As far as the economy, gas prices are only one of many issiues that will hammer Obama. 5 trillion added to the debt, high unemployment, Obamacare...please...The Republican will have a field day hammering away at Obama.
Gas prices were higher in early 2008. The federal budget deficits are shrinking. We have high unemployment but we also have an undeniable recovery from the economic meltdown that began when Dubya was President. The economy is now stronger even without a corrupt boom. Republicans can have a long execration list for alleged misdeeds of the President -- but all in all the President has kept about every promise that he found possible to achieve, he has the other Side at fault for failure to achieve the rest, and his re-election will not depend upon convincing people who didn't like those promises to begin with that such was good for them.

Obama has the power of incumbency and that is to be respected. He has a charming personality and will be formidable. But he is also extremely vulnerable. If the economy does improve dramatically he'll most likely win. If it continues to bounce along the bottom with 2% growth rates he can beaten.
I know enough to not predict economic performance, a very random event, unless something overpowers randomness (like a speculative boom going bad). But there is no speculative boom. In practice Governors and Presidents run on their successful records and win re-election... or run from their failed records and lose. That could be the difference between Barack Obama and Jimmy Carter.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#7150 at 02-14-2012 07:38 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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02-14-2012, 07:38 PM #7150
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
Except that Amy lives in a working class neighborhood, albeit small town.
It is possible for someone to live in a working-class neighborhood and run afoul of the sales pitches for junk food, "comfort food", and (for a young adult) mass-market beer. And, of course, stay physically active. I strongly encourage parents to get their kids involved in Scouting, 4-H, the Y, Boys Clubs and Girls Clubs, or the like as relevant -- and away from watching cable TV with a side of sugary sodas or microwave popcorn "with extra butter". Significant is separating the kid from the Idiot Screen.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 02-14-2012 at 07:59 PM.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
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