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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 326







Post#8126 at 05-01-2012 03:11 PM by Wes84 [at joined Jun 2009 #posts 856]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
I am scratching my head at this wondering if Pittsburgh really deserves to be considered part of Appalachia. It has, after all, a world-class symphony orchestra and three professional sports teams. Perhaps it is a capital of a part of Appalachia. Certainly I was a fish out of water there for the ten years I lived there.
Quote Originally Posted by The Grey Badger View Post
My dad was from around the Pittsburgh area and I had cousins there for a long time. I agree that it's part of Greater Appalachia. The professional sports teams don't make it any less so. The symphony orchestra and other cultural amenities are more or less expected of any city in any region, though I'm glad to know they're there.

Albuquerque has a symphony orchestra, several live theater venues, and other such amenities and we're down here in El Norte, home of red & green chile, lowriders, and everything else that goes with Norteno culture. (As someone told me last night, there's a reason Breaking Bad was filmed in Albuquerque!). I'm sure there are people who would move here and say "Duh? I've moved to Bordertown?" and I scratch my head ans say "No, it's nothing of the sort - it's just a regular city, with everything you'd expect from a city."
It may depend on where you live in the Pittsburgh area. Allegheny County is primarily of the Midland culture, while some of the neighboring counties to the south are Appalachian.
Last edited by Wes84; 05-01-2012 at 03:17 PM.
Generation: Millennial (Gen Y)







Post#8127 at 05-04-2012 01:32 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Had an interesting heated discussion with Ron Paul supporters the other day outside the San Jose public library. All Millennials. I don't see them out there now, so perhaps Paul is finally pulling in his horns. I don't know. He certainly isn't going to get the GOP nomination. What remains unclear is whether he will run a third party campaign. I don't think he's going to be the Libertarian nominee either.

Anyway, this provoked a thought regarding one of the areas where I sort of agree with Paul, namely in regard to pulling back from empire. But even there, I realize I don't agree with him fully. While we need to do this pronto, we can't do it instantly. If we do it before we are further along in transitioning away from oil, we will leave ourselves vulnerable to manipulation by OPEC, and if we simply chuck it all rather than handing off power to a chosen successor, we create a power vacuum and there will be a struggle to fill it probably involving China, Russia, and the EU, and possibly including India as well. It would be extremely ugly. The transition has to be managed.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#8128 at 05-04-2012 04:30 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
Had an interesting heated discussion with Ron Paul supporters the other day outside the San Jose public library. All Millennials. I don't see them out there now, so perhaps Paul is finally pulling in his horns. I don't know. He certainly isn't going to get the GOP nomination. What remains unclear is whether he will run a third party campaign. I don't think he's going to be the Libertarian nominee either.
One word why Paul won't run third party -- Rand. He's not going to want to trash his son's political career.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#8129 at 05-04-2012 04:50 PM by 92man [at Florida joined Feb 2011 #posts 513]
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I was going to vote for Ron Paul and think he would make an excellent president but unfortantely due to his low delegate numbers, he probably doesn't have any chances at winning. So, I'm voting for Romney. But I think Obama's going to win again anyway.
Last edited by 92man; 05-04-2012 at 08:09 PM.
1992 Millie







Post#8130 at 05-04-2012 05:51 PM by katsung47 [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 289]
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Post#8131 at 05-04-2012 06:57 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
One word why Paul won't run third party -- Rand. He's not going to want to trash his son's political career.
Good point. That means he's probably going to hang it up pretty soon, at latest after the convention. I suspect he'll soft-pedal his campaign now. Why waste money when he can't win?
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#8132 at 05-04-2012 07:00 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
Good point. That means he's probably going to hang it up pretty soon, at latest after the convention. I suspect he'll soft-pedal his campaign now. Why waste money when he can't win?
He wants a nice speaking slot at the convention and to get his message out.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#8133 at 05-04-2012 10:48 PM by Kate [at joined Apr 2009 #posts 83]
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My Millie (92) son plans to vote for Obama rather than Romney who he views as a "douchbag". He feels that by running Romney, the GOP has proven they have no ideological integrity. He would vote for Ron Paul as he is more libertarian however, he feels he does not have a chance and is only running for publicity. At any rate, he feels Obama has governed from center-right despite the propaganda pushed by radio hosts and Fox News.







Post#8134 at 05-05-2012 01:48 PM by herbal tee [at joined Dec 2005 #posts 7,116]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kate View Post
At any rate, he feels Obama has governed from center-right despite the propaganda pushed by radio hosts and Fox News.
Indeed. Obama has been our best moderate Republican president since Clinton. And Clinton was our best moderate Republican president since Ford, who really was a registered Republican.







Post#8135 at 05-06-2012 05:09 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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This thread is supposed to be about the 2012 U.S. election, but in fact the 2012 French election which just concluded, and which tossed Sarkozy, restored the Socialists to power, and strongly rebuked austerity, may show the way the wind is blowing globally.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#8136 at 05-06-2012 07:52 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
This thread is supposed to be about the 2012 U.S. election, but in fact the 2012 French election which just concluded, and which tossed Sarkozy, restored the Socialists to power, and strongly rebuked austerity, may show the way the wind is blowing globally.
Indeed. The austerity while maintaining the profits of the finance industry platform isn't likely to be changed by the US election, but a socialist France might push for things like a transaction tax. The Occupy movement seems to be going nowhere on this side of The Pond, but Europe might not be so solidly stagnant as it used to be.







Post#8137 at 05-06-2012 07:56 PM by Deb C [at joined Aug 2004 #posts 6,099]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
This thread is supposed to be about the 2012 U.S. election, but in fact the 2012 French election which just concluded, and which tossed Sarkozy, restored the Socialists to power, and strongly rebuked austerity, may show the way the wind is blowing globally.


"The only Good America is a Just America." .... pbrower2a







Post#8138 at 05-06-2012 08:52 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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Vive La France!!!
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#8139 at 05-07-2012 12:00 AM by Roadbldr '59 [at Vancouver, Washington joined Jul 2001 #posts 8,275]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wes84 View Post
It may depend on where you live in the Pittsburgh area. Allegheny County is primarily of the Midland culture, while some of the neighboring counties to the south are Appalachian.
Dunno about Central PA, but my Dad was from Erie, about halfway between Niagara Falls and Cleveland. He was pretty darn Midwestern, with a fondness for German-derived phrases such as "Gesundheit!!!" (when someone sneezed). Not Appalachian in the slightest.
"Better hurry. There's a storm coming. His storm!!!" :-O -Abigail Freemantle, "The Stand" by Stephen King







Post#8140 at 05-07-2012 09:47 AM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Indeed. The austerity while maintaining the profits of the finance industry platform isn't likely to be changed by the US election, but a socialist France might push for things like a transaction tax. The Occupy movement seems to be going nowhere on this side of The Pond, but Europe might not be so solidly stagnant as it used to be.
I wouldn't assume that Occupy isn't going anywhere here. Let's see what happens in this year's election first before we draw any conclusions, and also let's see what happens after the election in government and in popular action. Remember, there were plenty of people who wrote Europe off as "austerity forever" (whether they celebrated or mourned that situation). Things can and do change.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#8141 at 05-07-2012 10:21 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
This thread is supposed to be about the 2012 U.S. election, but in fact the 2012 French election which just concluded, and which tossed Sarkozy, restored the Socialists to power, and strongly rebuked austerity, may show the way the wind is blowing globally.
America has no significant heritage of a well-defined socialist or social-democratic Party. American economic elites have long used consumerism (including mass low culture) as an 'opiate of the masses'. That may no longer work. Religion isn't as safe and reliable an opiate as Karl Marx described it; thoughtful religion might promote a conscience and a desire for justice incompatible with exploitation and oppression. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. headed an organization called the Southern Christian Leadership Committee... and it was very Christian in its ethical vision.

This Crisis Era may be sorting out the sordid from the honorable in American life, and not only in politics. Bad practices in business, politics, culture, and education will need to be scrapped.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#8142 at 05-07-2012 10:49 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Indeed. The austerity while maintaining the profits of the finance industry platform isn't likely to be changed by the US election, but a socialist France might push for things like a transaction tax. The Occupy movement seems to be going nowhere on this side of The Pond, but Europe might not be so solidly stagnant as it used to be.
The truth is that the financial industry is at best a method of hedging risk (insurance), determining which borrowers are most suitable users of loans (retail banking), and deciding what giant businesses can float loans (investment banking). The financial industry at its best exists more for the conservation of capital than for the promotion of business. It is necessary for industry and large-scale consumer spending in the sense that good brakes are necessary for high-speed driving.

Most people understand insurance to some extent because they know about auto accidents, cancer, household fires, and sudden death as random events. They understand banking to some extent because of their auto loans and perhaps home loans as customers. Investment banking? That is bigger and far more subtle -- and far more arcane. This is where corporate bond sales and the formation of new giant businesses is done. The financial crisis of the Double-Zero decade ravaged that industry; founding a giant business as a giant entity with IPOs and large issues of new corporate bonds will be difficult in the absence of competent entities in that business. Lehman Brothers used to be such an entity until it tried to make even more income by packaging fecal loans to sell to suckers.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#8143 at 05-07-2012 12:55 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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The French Socialist Party is not very socialist any more, but its victory is a highly significant event since it signals a change in the austerity binge in Europe. The Conservatives in Britain aren't doing very well either. And these things are felt on this side of the Atlantic.







Post#8144 at 05-07-2012 10:04 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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Republican Silent Richard Lugar is now the underdog in tomorrow's Indiana Republican Primary against a more conservative Boomer. If I am not mistaken, that would cut the number of genuine Republican moderates to perhaps two, Susan Collins of Maine and Scott Brown of Massachusetts--or am I forgetting some one?







Post#8145 at 05-07-2012 11:57 PM by Exile 67' [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 722]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
The French Socialist Party is not very socialist any more, but its victory is a highly significant event since it signals a change in the austerity binge in Europe. The Conservatives in Britain aren't doing very well either. And these things are felt on this side of the Atlantic.
I don't think American voters pay much attention to European politics or European opinion.







Post#8146 at 05-08-2012 01:13 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Exile 67' View Post
I don't think American voters pay much attention to European politics or European opinion.
You speak for yourself alone. This Crisis may force America to a political pattern vastly different from what it us now. "National identity" is no excuse for political depravity.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#8147 at 05-08-2012 08:49 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by KaiserD2 View Post
Republican Silent Richard Lugar is now the underdog in tomorrow's Indiana Republican Primary against a more conservative Boomer. If I am not mistaken, that would cut the number of genuine Republican moderates to perhaps two, Susan Collins of Maine and Scott Brown of Massachusetts--or am I forgetting some one?
He lost.

Lugar was defeated in today’s Republican primary election by Treasurer Richard Mourdock, ending his bid for a seventh term in the U.S. Senate.

Mourdock will face Democrat U.S. Rep. Joe Donnelly and Libertarian Andy Horning in the November election.

Lugar is an Indiana icon who has influenced everything from the political makeup of Indianapolis to global nuclear proliferation. As mayor of Indianapolis, he led the effort to create Unigov, combining city and county government. And as the GOP leader in the Senate Foreign Relations Committee he’s played a lead role in combatting the spread of nuclear weapons from the former Soviet Union.

But while voters may have appreciated those things, in the end he was seen as a figure from the past who didn’t have a place in the Republican Party’s future.

Voters cited his age, 80; his Virginia address where he’d lived since 1977; his votes for President Obama’s Supreme Court nominees and his support for keeping earmarks in the hands of the legislative branch rather than surrender that power to the White House. And party insiders noted that Lugar had been a distant figure, not bothering to come to party events in Indiana until this year, when it was too late to kindle the relationships that could help him win.

Mourdock, over and over, pounded home the message that it was time for a change. And a drive through Indiana’s countryside would find as many, if not more, “Retire Lugar” yard signs than signs calling for him to be re-elected.

People in both parties said this election was a referendum on Lugar, and not even the backing of Gov. Mitch Daniels, who got his start in politics working for Lugar, could save him.

Mourdock originally was seen as a upstart candidate with little chance of winning. But he came out of the gate with the backing of a majority of state party leaders around the state, plus tea party activists who coalesced around his candidacy. With no other challenger to Lugar, and with the help of outside groups who targeted Lugar with millions of dollars in negative ads and mailings, it became clear in the final days of the campaign that Lugar would lose.
http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...t|IndyStar.com

Apparently the way to win within the Republican Party is to take the most extreme position offered by the money-dealing puppeteers.

If the paymasters told the politicians to bring back slavery because slave trafficking because it would generate profits... they would.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#8148 at 05-08-2012 09:15 PM by radind [at Alabama joined Sep 2009 #posts 1,595]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
...



http://www.indystar.com/article/20120508/NEWS0502/120508042/Indiana-Senate-Richard-Mourdock-topples-veteran-Richard-Lugar-Republican-primary?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|IndyStar.com

Apparently the way to win within the Republican Party is to take the most extreme position offered by the money-dealing puppeteers.

If the paymasters told the politicians to bring back slavery because slave trafficking because it would generate profits... they would.
Hyperbole, I hope.
Last edited by radind; 05-08-2012 at 10:27 PM.







Post#8149 at 05-08-2012 10:03 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
He lost.



http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...t|IndyStar.com

Apparently the way to win within the Republican Party is to take the most extreme position offered by the money-dealing puppeteers.

If the paymasters told the politicians to bring back slavery because slave trafficking because it would generate profits... they would.
Yes, I know.

It will be interesting if Donnelly can beat Mourdock--that is what happened last time in Delaware and in Nevada and this doesn't figure to be quite as big a Republican year. On the other hand, Obama is not likely to win Indiana again.







Post#8150 at 05-08-2012 10:13 PM by KaiserD2 [at David Kaiser '47 joined Jul 2001 #posts 5,220]
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Nate Silver identifies eight moderate Republicans remaining in the Senate: McCain, Scott Brown of Massachusetts, Mark Kirk of Illinois, Susan Collins of Maine, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, Lamar Alexander of Tennessee and Charles E. Grassley of Iowa. I think Cochran is a stretch and Grassley isn't a lot better. In fact I'm not sure how many of these have ever voted with the Democrats in the last year.
Last edited by KaiserD2; 05-08-2012 at 10:17 PM.
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