Originally Posted by Exile 67'

Are you saying the welfare state no longer exists?

If it does, I don't know what it would be. Maybe Medicaid; that's about it.

Originally Posted by playwrite

Yes, LSAP would be just like QE. But, just like with the QEs, the Mises folks will get it wrong again - telling us that hyper-inflation is just around the corner. Mises folks remain clueless, still lost in the myth that fractional reserve lending actually exist. Here's a hint - except for the inflation hysteria Bernake moves cause in the clueless markets, his actions are actually DE-flationary in the real economy because QEs and LSAP REMOVE money circulating in the economy. That's because these actions remove interest payments and give it to the US Treasury as "profit" which returns the dollars to the ether from which it was issued - that is DE-flationary.

It is nice to know that when it comes to economics you still remain as clueless as ever. When the Federal Reserve buys assets as it has in QE 1 and QE 2 it does so with money it has created out of nowhere. This printing of money is inflationary which has a range of consequences that depend on how far the Fed goes in its actions. The usual consequence is the boom bust cycle with effects we are all familiar with even if most people, especially playwrite, are clueless about the cause. Hyperinflation is what happens when whoever prints the money gets really stupid, Wiemar Germany and Zimbabwe come to mind

The only bright spot in this rather nasty recession has been getting people to ask the right questions about the business cycle.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

There's a difference between inter-generational poverty and this mythical "welfare state" you speak of. No one chooses to get stuck in the ghetto or trailer park because the government benefits are so sweet. People get stuck because the Puritanically inspired American belief that children should pay for the financial sins of their parents.

"When you cut already gutted schools, you save a few bucks in the short run, but you ensure another generation grows up ignorant, unable to get good jobs, and attracted to crime."

Let me guess, their parents should have cared enough to send them to private schools? Or moved to a nicer district with nicer public schools? I hope it satisfies your sense of economic justice, because it does nothing but expand the poverty class you so loathe.

American belief falls in line with natural law than the ancient beliefs of the Puritans. According to natural law, the poor are the least likely to succeed due to a lack of natural skills and abilities. According to natural law, the apple doesn't fall very far from its tree and the leopards don't loose their spots.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

I think people most on public assistance have become accustomed to the idea of having government cake and eating it too.

I think most people on PA are just thankful that they will make it through the month with food on the table.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

Private prison labor gets paid for their labor. How much does a prisoner/convict need to make a decent living in a prison?

Which means that the prison owners are profiting mightily by using prisoners as cheap labor, which leads to them wanting more prisoners, and hence the BS "War on Drugs". It's exactly what A. J. Toynbee called a society-damaging "Social Enormity", something that is damaging to society as a whole but profits the ruling class.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

American belief falls in line with natural law than the ancient beliefs of the Puritans. According to natural law, the poor are the least likely to succeed due to a lack of natural skills and abilities. According to natural law, the apple doesn't fall very far from its tree and the leopards don't loose their spots.

In other worlds you are a Social Darwinist sicko. That explains everything.

Originally Posted by Odin

Let me guess, Exile thinks most people on public assistance are lazy welfare queens who drive Cadillacs?

Cadillacs? No, Odin , that's looking for fancy cars in all the wrong places. You will find Cadillacs with the optional chauffeur among the denizens of corporate welfare. I work with people who are poor. Yeah, they get SNAP for foodies, but very bad health care. I see stuff like heart attacks in your 40's and missing teeth. As for cars, they're actually clunkers.

Originally Posted by Odin

Which means that the prison owners are profiting mightily by using prisoners as cheap labor, which leads to them wanting more prisoners, and hence the BS "War on Drugs". It's exactly what A. J. Toynbee called a society-damaging "Social Enormity", something that is damaging to society as a whole but profits the ruling class.

And they're factory farms for gang recruitment. The norm for "prison culture" is strictly a predator/prey arrangement. In order to not be prey, you join up with some prison gange, which usually has affiliates on the "outside". In prison, for the right price, you can do any drug you want, get any sexual favors you want, and buy off low paid prison staff to look the other way. There is where you see the fine results of social darwinism.

Edit

Originally Posted by KIA

Private prison labor gets paid for their labor. How much does a prisoner/convict need to make a decent living in a prison?

It depends. The actual salary if you can call it that is about $8.00/day. Most of the income prisoners actually make either comes from the outside from gang affiliation/relative or "hustling" on the inside. You know, stuff like tat parlors, hooch making, drug dealing, prostitution, gambling, etc. In a lot of cases, prisons make excellent schools for being a better con.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

According to natural law, the poor are the least likely to succeed due to a lack of natural skills and abilities. According to natural law, the apple doesn't fall very far from its tree and the leopards don't loose their spots.

What did I just read? What definition of natural law are you using? Surely not one consistent with the now-defunct "Natural Law Party" of the USA. It sounds a lot more like Calvinist predetermination than any Natural Law theory I've heard put forth.

So rich kids don't need education and medical care to become productive members of society? They're just so naturally strong and talented that you could dump them off in the jungle, and they'd suddenly emerge as a natural leader with modern skills?

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

What did I just read? What definition of natural law are you using? Surely not one consistent with the now-defunct "Natural Law Party" of the USA. It sounds a lot more like Calvinist predetermination than any Natural Law theory I've heard put forth.

So rich kids don't need education and medical care to become productive members of society? They're just so naturally strong and talented that you could dump them off in the jungle, and they'd suddenly emerge as a natural leader with modern skills?

That shit Exile is spounting sounds like something that would come out of the mouth of Ebeneezer Scrooge.

Originally Posted by playwrite

KIA, you are the perfect example of why the top 1% can so easily manipulate about half the population into voting against their own self-interest.

Very similar to the poor ignorant Whites that fought in the Civil War to maintain slavery. The mythology of welfare queens is no less blinding than the mythology of the Antebellum South. Very powerful ju-ju, but fortunately, with inevitable demographics, you all are dying out as a political force - for me, that can't come soon enough.

Aren't you a 1%'er? How does a manipulating blue krohny like yourself become a 1%'er and remain a 1%'er? Are you any different than them? Do you really believe the nation getting a bit darker (presumably dumber, less educated and more easily manipulated due to their internal fear/hatred of whites) is going to add that much to your political advantage in the future or add a great deal to the American future? Do you really believe a culturally advanced modern day blackman is going to vote to sacrifice half his profits/extra earnings to support his f-d up cousin and provide for his f-d up girlfriend and their soon to be f-d up kids?

Originally Posted by Odin

I think most people on PA are just thankful that they will make it through the month with food on the table.

The majority that we deal with in the cities have developed a sense of entitlement.

Originally Posted by Odin

In other worlds you are a Social Darwinist sicko. That explains everything.

How many times have you failed to establish yourself above me and lower my social status? Guess what, we're all social darwins here and that includes you too.

Originally Posted by Odin

I consider private prison labor to be a new form of slavery.

Indeed the potential for abuse is severe. Prison has always imposed helplessness, and regulations within a prison in which convicts are sources of profit through their labor are often intended to make any infraction a pretext for extending a term. It is easy to make prison labor into an asset, as shown in the Old South and the Gulag.

In view of the complete amorality of those who dominate American economic life, it is easy to imagine debtors' prisons becoming a norm as a means of ensuring that debts are never discharged except through ransoms from loved ones. Debt bondage, a primitive and pre-modern practice could be an institution in a very ad High. Just imagine what it could be applied to -- medical bills that could no longer be discharged in death, relief for 'temporary' unemployment, educational loans... and we all know what sorts of political policies could bring such about.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

Aren't you a 1%'er? How does a manipulating blue krohny like yourself become a 1%'er and remain a 1%'er? Are you any different than them? Do you really believe the nation getting a bit darker (presumably dumber, less educated and more easily manipulated due to their internal fear/hatred of whites) is going to add that much to your political advantage in the future or add a great deal to the American future? Do you really believe a culturally advanced modern day blackman is going to vote to sacrifice half his profits/extra earnings to support his f-d up cousin and provide for his f-d up girlfriend and their soon to be f-d up kids?

The racist bigotry exposes itself. Note well this phrase:

the nation getting a bit darker (presumably dumber, less educated and more easily manipulated due to their internal fear/hatred of whites)

is the sort of rhetoric that I would expect within a Klavern.

You, KIA '67, may not realize this, but there are non-white populations with a high regard for education and personal achievement. Think of some of the Asian populations. How many Filipino- or Vietnamese-Americans could 'pass' as white? I can assure you that many of the Mexican-American kids that I have met as a teacher are well-motivated to learn in school -- perhaps because they know the consequences of educational failure. Need I tell you about the "Talented Tenth"? So would Charles Murray, surviving co-author of the much-maligned The Bell Curve, who states a commonplace observation that Jamaican-Americans who on the average have much less Caucasian ancestry than blacks who are descendants of slaves in America fare much better. Maybe British colonial rule didn't foster the 'separate-but-equal' institutions that hurt American blacks especially hard in the South or that the British educational system imposed in Caribbean colonies is somehow better than ours.

I can assure you that the successful non-whites in America have much tendency to marry white people similarly successful. That does not indicate fear at the personal level. The real threat to 'whiteness' has never been the stereotyped black thug rich in testosterone but deprived in intelligence and morals who could always be sent to prison for an unwelcome advance upon your beloved White Womanhood. It has instead been the middle-class person who has virtues who is easily seen as such and attractive for those virtues.

You may not know this, but some white communities in America are quite anti-intellectual and, to no surprise, low-achieving. They now gravitate to the Republican Party which panders to their collective ignorance and superstition with promises to make such ignorance and superstition (and inevitable poverty) the norm. It's easy to understand why successful non-whites distrust a political organization that fosters an ideology that treats ignorance and superstition as virtues. Such an ideology is ultimately suicidal in a democratic political system with an economy that depends upon personal achievement for success and even personal survival. Of course survival of the GOP on behalf of extant elites might depend upon the destruction of democracy.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

On the class divide -- small-scale entrepreneurs whose profit is their modest living are not exploiters as such.

I was thinking more about the absolute distinction he made between the aristocracy and the bourgeoisie. In the early, formative days of capitalism, the nobility WERE the capitalists. Commoners muscled in on the action later, and a divide arose between commoner capitalists and titled capitalists, with the former strenuously objecting to the legal privileges afforded to the latter.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

1) The welfare state and government funding are more directly related to the central issues of today than the no-issues involving birth control and sexual freedom.

Actually, birth control and sexual freedom and abortion affect a lot more people in a much bigger way than the welfare state does, unless you include Social Security and Medicare in that.

2) Liberal ideals vs American ideals. Liberal belief vs American belief. Liberal values vs American values.

Liberalism is American. You fail.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

I think people most on public assistance have become accustomed to the idea of having government cake and eating it too.

[Emphasis added.] This clearly shows that the word in bold is NOT what you are doing.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

You, KIA '67, may not realize this, but there are non-white populations with a high regard for education and personal achievement. Think of some of the Asian populations. How many Filipino- or Vietnamese-Americans could 'pass' as white? I can assure you that many of the Mexican-American kids that I have met as a teacher are well-motivated to learn in school -- perhaps because they know the consequences of educational failure. Need I tell you about the "Talented Tenth"? So would Charles Murray, surviving co-author of the much-maligned The Bell Curve, who states a commonplace observation that Jamaican-Americans who on the average have much less Caucasian ancestry than blacks who are descendants of slaves in America fare much better. Maybe British colonial rule didn't foster the 'separate-but-equal' institutions that hurt American blacks especially hard in the South or that the British educational system imposed in Caribbean colonies is somehow better than ours.

I can assure you that the successful non-whites in America have much tendency to marry white people similarly successful. That does not indicate fear at the personal level. The real threat to 'whiteness' has never been the stereotyped black thug rich in testosterone but deprived in intelligence and morals who could always be sent to prison for an unwelcome advance upon your beloved White Womanhood. It has instead been the middle-class person who has virtues who is easily seen as such and attractive for those virtues.

You may not know this, but some white communities in America are quite anti-intellectual and, to no surprise, low-achieving. They now gravitate to the Republican Party which panders to their collective ignorance and superstition with promises to make such ignorance and superstition (and inevitable poverty) the norm. It's easy to understand why successful non-whites distrust a political organization that fosters an ideology that treats ignorance and superstition as virtues. Such an ideology is ultimately suicidal in a democratic political system with an economy that depends upon personal achievement for success and even personal survival. Of course survival of the GOP on behalf of extant elites might depend upon the destruction of democracy.

I realize that there are intelligent minorities who are quite capable and very successful. I see them here. I see them in the workforce. I see them in the community. I've met them personally and I've done business with them as well. BTW, the majority of them won't be voting for Obama in this election.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

I realize that there are intelligent minorities who are quite capable and very successful. I see them here. I see them in the workforce. I see them in the community. I've met them personally and I've done business with them as well. BTW, the majority of them won't be voting for Obama in this election.

That would be the growing "Darkies for Romney" movement, I suppose, and I hope Mitt is counting on them for the upset. Can't help myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i9iTYe6tEk

Too bad the quality sucks and the video is reversed, but it is still a funny bit if you "get" irony at all.

Originally Posted by Aramea

That would be the growing "Darkies for Romney" movement, I suppose, and I hope Mitt is counting on them for the upset. Can't help myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2i9iTYe6tEk

Too bad the quality sucks and the video is reversed, but it is still a funny bit if you "get" irony at all.

I thought it was pretty funny. Have you ever seen the movie The Jerk?

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

I thought it was pretty funny. Have you ever seen the movie The Jerk?

It has been a long time since I have seen "The Jerk" but I remember it being very funny. I will have to check Netflix for it later.

Originally Posted by TheRani

Yeah, I thought the same thing.
"Sir, you are speaking to a nigger!" .

The phrase "I was born a poor black child" was running through my head during the coverage of the RNC last week.

edited to fix quote.

Originally Posted by Exile 67'

The majority that we deal with in the cities have developed a sense of entitlement.

Who is this "we" Kimosabe? You have a mouse in your pocket? I don't believe a word of it.

Originally Posted by Odin

Who is this "we" Kimosabe? You have a mouse in your pocket? I don't believe a word of it.

The working folks. Today, we have working folks serving welfare recipients. Welfare recipients are pretty common and you don't have to travel very far to meet one. BTW, you don't have to travel very far to meet a worker who doesn't like them, doesn't identify with them and doesn't support the idea of their tax dollars going to support them either. You also don't have to go very far to meet a struggling parent who can't afford the expense their childs babies who support raising taxes to provide more social programs.