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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 369







Post#9201 at 09-12-2012 03:21 PM by Aramea [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 743]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Making a film that offends others is not inciting a riot. If I ever travel to other countries I would and should honor their customs and beliefs or at least not try to provoke actions that offend them. Thats just basic decency and respect. HOWEVER, what Americans do, while expressing their free speech rights here is totally different. Frankly, people in other countires really should butt out of what private citizents here are doing, its really none of their business.

I will not, nor I believe the majority of the American people submit to political correctness imposed on me either by other Americans and ESPECIALLY by ANYONE overseas.

Sorry but your rights do not extend to "not be offended"....
It is pretty difficult to offend me, so whatever. This argument about who is or isn't politically correct (I am not) is stupid. Political correctness is just repackaged censorship. The right is just as prone to it as the left is.







Post#9202 at 09-12-2012 03:25 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
By the way Obama's bounce is now gone...

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ..._tracking_poll
Rasmussen is a republican poll, and is still +1 Obama. Gallup is even slightly-republican leaning, and it has Obama +7 today.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#9203 at 09-12-2012 04:08 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
These terms are all relative. Someone who is on the far left, but sees one person farther left that they are could claim that proves they're a moderate. Over time, through a number of measurements, it has been established that the posters on this message board are very, very far to the left. Many seem oblivious to that fact. There are avowed socialists and anarchists on this board. That is the far left. Those are fringe viewpoints. Anyone thinks Obama is a moderate, is by definition on the far left. As I pointed out earlier, most Americans view Obama as someone who is farther left than they are. He's a politician, concerned about his own election, and as such he has a degree of pragmatism. He can't necessarily do all he would like to do, because he knows he can't get away with it. He has said and done things that make it clear that his sympathies lie with the far left, even though he won't always do what they want.
As a point of reference:
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#9204 at 09-12-2012 04:29 PM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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It is an excellent test, but even I think their estimates of who is where are strange. Obama is not that far to the right! The difference from Romney is not that slight. Gary Johnson is assumed to not have cultural-liberal views, which I think he does, and so should be placed further down. Their estimates of the position of politicians on the grid does not reflect on the quality of the test itself though. It is very good. The spread of non-politicians like ourselves is much more centered the way you would expect. Many of us are to the (lower) left of where they put the Green Party's candidate Jill Stein.

Remember "right" here is referring only to the libertarian economic philosophy, and "libertarian" here refers only to social or cultural liberalism. So with the corresponding opposites: "left" here is Marxism or socialism, and "authoritarian" is social conservatism or fascism. These are different from the Libertarian grid. So right, as Americans understand it, is upper right here (where Virgil Goode is placed), and left is lower left. Again, I think Jill Stein is further to the (lower) left than they say.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#9205 at 09-12-2012 04:30 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
It's amazing how the American left suddenly becomes sensitive to religion when the religion in question is Islam. They don't even seem to see the massive double standard they apply in their all-out war on Christianity, nor do they appreciate the fact that if the people they were attacking were Muslims instead, they would all be dead. Certainly not when they continually compare American Christians to the Taliban, and so forth.
Insert massive EYE ROLL here.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#9206 at 09-12-2012 04:37 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
First I never bashed Islam. second, by your logic, if other religions attacked thier critics it would be just hunky dory as the "criticizer" had it coming....yours and others blind obedience to political correctness is a threat to freedom of speech. If its ok to produce other kinds of offensive materials and speech etc. criticizing Islam should be ok too....

Your hypocrisy is astounding....
You have a blindspot the size of Texas. Perhaps you should leave this topic alone.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#9207 at 09-12-2012 04:40 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Aramea View Post
I agree with 1-4, but I think that once you have a region boiling over, it is fair to question the motives of the producer and promoter of the film. If they did it to provoke violence in the Middle East, there could be a national security issue.
That's a fair point. Free speech is not unlimited.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#9208 at 09-12-2012 04:50 PM by Marx & Lennon [at '47 cohort still lost in Falwelland joined Sep 2001 #posts 16,709]
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Quote Originally Posted by Kinser79 View Post
Even if it is a national security issue the freedom of said speech is absolute.
There is no class of speech that is protected absolutely. This has been adjudicated on several occassions. There is a great phrase one SC Justice used to describer this, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact."

Quote Originally Posted by Kinser79 ...
If we started saying that things are not protected on national security grounds where would we stop? Its a slippery slope argument I know.
Try standing on a street corner and reading a classified dcounemtn, if you reall believe this.

Quote Originally Posted by Kinser79 ...
And this isn't to be taken to mean that all speech should be protected. For example shouting fire in a crowded theater when there isn't a fire is not protected speech. But when it comes to religious or even anti-religious speech and political speech the first amendment's protections need to be absolute.
Political speech is highly protected. "Highly" is still limited.

Quote Originally Posted by Kinser79 ...
Free speech is not to protect those with popular views, but those with unpopular views.
True.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.







Post#9209 at 09-12-2012 05:05 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Its amazing how you libtards are so anxious to change the subject of our miserable economy....and fail to recognize that the "Arab Spring" is turning into a nightmare.....
I'm more than happy to talk about the economy. Most of my posts are, by far, about economics.

Why, along with several others, we even tried to educate a t-bagger like you on the topic. That was really tough; and the verdict is still out on any inkling of success.

Have you found that Social Security Trust Fund yet? You know, the one that's suppose to "run out of money?" BWWWAAAAAAA!!!!!!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9210 at 09-12-2012 05:06 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough View Post
Several polls have now come out since the convention showing Obama with a 1 point lead. The "bounce" looks more like a random blip on the radar screen.
Ya got some links to those "several polls?"

Or, does this get filed under "Republicans lie about everything all the time over and over again?"
Last edited by playwrite; 09-12-2012 at 05:14 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9211 at 09-12-2012 05:13 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
It may be bad form to mock a religion but people should be allowed free speech. Other religions are routinely bashed without its member going on killing sprees or issuing death warrants etc. The response in the Muslim world over some movie or a cartoon or a book is completely uncalled for and outragious. We should not have our freedom of speech and expression curtailed out of political correctness.
That may be true, but this is a great example of why both you and Romney should be about as far away from any foreign policy or service as possible.

It's like being right that you have the right to cross the street in a crosswalk even if a semi-truck is barreling down on you with no brakes. You'd be right, dead right. It's called being a rightful moron.

Just in this case it gets OTHER people killed that have been serving their country for decades in highly hostile lands so morons like you, JPT and Romney can sniff your superior sniff about freedom of speech. It may be "right" but it is one of the most unpatriotic things you a-holes wearing flag pins on your lapels can do.

-----------------------------------------

The more I think about this, the more pissed off I get.

One of my kids is a US Marine. If he ever gets harmed as a result of some F'in moron causing something like this to transpire, I'll hunt the SOB down and stick a bible so far up his ass that he'll be citing scripture every time he opens his pie hole.
Last edited by playwrite; 09-12-2012 at 05:22 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9212 at 09-12-2012 05:24 PM by Aramea [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 743]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
That may be true, but this is a great example of why both you and Romney should be about as far away from any foreign policy or service as possible.

It's like being right that you have the right to cross the street in a crosswalk even if a semi-truck is barreling down on you with no brakes. You'd be right, dead right. It's called being a rightful moron.

Just in this case it gets OTHER people killed that have been serving their country for decades in highly hostile lands so morons like you, JPT and Romney can sniff your superior sniff about freedom of speech. It may be "right" but it is one of the most unpatriotic things you a-holes wearing flag pins on your lapels can do.

-----------------------------------------

The more I think about this, the more pissed off I get.

One of my kids is a US Marine. If he ever gets harmed as a result of some F'in moron causing something like this to transpire, I'll hunt the SOB down and stick a bible so far up his ass that he'll be citing scripture every time he opens his pie hole.

Are you channeling your inner Xer ???







Post#9213 at 09-12-2012 05:31 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Aramea View Post
Are you channeling your inner Xer ???
You push a Boomer past a point, and he'll out X any Xer.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9214 at 09-12-2012 05:34 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Boom.

"There's a broader lesson to be learned here: Gov. Romney seems to have a tendency to shoot first and aim later and as president one of the things I've learned is you can't do that," Obama told CBS News Wednesday."It's important for you to make sure that the statements that you make are backed up by the facts and that you've thought through the ramifications before you make them."
Romney, left flappin in the wind.

The parallels to McCain's '08 meltdown are uncanny.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9215 at 09-12-2012 05:39 PM by Aramea [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 743]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
You push a Boomer past a point, and he'll out X any Xer.
Well, Romney has no sons in harm's way, a true Chickenhawk.







Post#9216 at 09-12-2012 06:00 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Just in this case it gets OTHER people killed that have been serving their country for decades in highly hostile lands so morons like you, JPT and Romney can sniff your superior sniff about freedom of speech. It may be "right" but it is one of the most unpatriotic things you a-holes wearing flag pins on your lapels can do.
I'd add that some with absolute religious values believe criticism or making fun of their religion is persecution or blasphemy. Love of God is more important than free speech.

This is strongly in conflict with my own values, but when one is talking about the Middle East, one ought to be aware that what is normal here isn't normal elsewhere.







Post#9217 at 09-12-2012 06:10 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
That may be true, but this is a great example of why both you and Romney should be about as far away from any foreign policy or service as possible.

It's like being right that you have the right to cross the street in a crosswalk even if a semi-truck is barreling down on you with no brakes. You'd be right, dead right. It's called being a rightful moron.

Just in this case it gets OTHER people killed that have been serving their country for decades in highly hostile lands so morons like you, JPT and Romney can sniff your superior sniff about freedom of speech. It may be "right" but it is one of the most unpatriotic things you a-holes wearing flag pins on your lapels can do.

-----------------------------------------

The more I think about this, the more pissed off I get.

One of my kids is a US Marine. If he ever gets harmed as a result of some F'in moron causing something like this to transpire, I'll hunt the SOB down and stick a bible so far up his ass that he'll be citing scripture every time he opens his pie hole.
Another internet tough guy....







Post#9218 at 09-12-2012 06:14 PM by Kinser79 [at joined Jun 2012 #posts 2,897]
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Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
There is no class of speech that is protected absolutely. This has been adjudicated on several occassions. There is a great phrase one SC Justice used to describer this, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact."
Not quite what we were talking about at the time. But true.


Try standing on a street corner and reading a classified dcounemtn, if you reall believe this.
I'd prefer to not have the Bradly Manning experience. My understanding is that Camp X-ray is not a pleasant place.


Political speech is highly protected. "Highly" is still limited.
Too limited in my opinion. The limitation in my view should be an incitement to assination of political leaders and incitement to riot.


True.
Indeed and the more unpopular the speech the more protection it needs.







Post#9219 at 09-12-2012 06:24 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Nope no liberal bias here...nothing to see here...

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...ey_652241.html


I love the reporters caught on microphone coordinating their questions....oh but they do that with Democrats too right...probably actually...they gotta figure out which softball question to ask....


Nothing to see here.....







Post#9220 at 09-12-2012 06:25 PM by B Butler [at joined Nov 2011 #posts 2,329]
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Left Arrow Rights and Wrongs

Quote Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon View Post
There is no class of speech that is protected absolutely. This has been adjudicated on several occassions. There is a great phrase one SC Justice used to describer this, "The Constitution is not a suicide pact."
I always liked, "Your freedom to swing your fist around ends where my nose begins."







Post#9221 at 09-12-2012 06:28 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
That may be true, but this is a great example of why both you and Romney should be about as far away from any foreign policy or service as possible.

It's like being right that you have the right to cross the street in a crosswalk even if a semi-truck is barreling down on you with no brakes. You'd be right, dead right. It's called being a rightful moron.

Just in this case it gets OTHER people killed that have been serving their country for decades in highly hostile lands so morons like you, JPT and Romney can sniff your superior sniff about freedom of speech. It may be "right" but it is one of the most unpatriotic things you a-holes wearing flag pins on your lapels can do.

-----------------------------------------

The more I think about this, the more pissed off I get.

One of my kids is a US Marine. If he ever gets harmed as a result of some F'in moron causing something like this to transpire, I'll hunt the SOB down and stick a bible so far up his ass that he'll be citing scripture every time he opens his pie hole.

Actually this why idiots like you should not be involved in foreign policy...all you are doing is excusing a vicious series of murder and terrorist activity...whose side are you on anyways????
Last edited by Weave; 09-12-2012 at 06:30 PM.







Post#9222 at 09-12-2012 06:39 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
I just read a bit more on the film. Here's an article on it: http://www.religiondispatches.org/di...sam_bacile%22/

Sounds like there's some very fishy stuff here.
Fishy? A huge amount of money to create cinematic bilge whose sole purpose is to offend a major religion. A fourteen-minute trailer quickly transcribed into Arabic so that it could incite Muslims to hatred of the West? The movie, from what I hear, would never be screened in Islamic countries.

The producer has no apparent experience in cinema, so he could be working under a pseudonym. He overloads on his ostensible Jewish identity as 'an Israeli Jew' and calling attention to the claim that all other backers are Jews. When people make a point to an extreme degree they often do so to cover a falsehood -- as in "Your President is not a crook".

It is safe to assume that anyone who respects Israel wisely avoids offending the personality of Mohammed, the cornerstone of Islam, out of concerns of the security of the Israeli state. A film like that would never be screened in Israel.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."


― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters







Post#9223 at 09-12-2012 07:09 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
all you are doing is excusing a vicious series of murder and terrorist activity
Let's see you quote him doing that. The quote you just presented did nothing of the kind.

Note: criticizing a stupid, thoughtless, self-defeating and completely asinine response to "a vicious series of murder and terrorist activity" is NOT the same as excusing it.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
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Post#9224 at 09-12-2012 07:13 PM by Aramea [at joined Jan 2011 #posts 743]
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Quote Originally Posted by Weave View Post
Actually this why idiots like you should not be involved in foreign policy...all you are doing is excusing a vicious series of murder and terrorist activity...whose side are you on anyways????
In Weave's black and white, zero-sum world, only one side can be right and one side be wrong. There is no way for both to be wrong. Tacit in this analysis is that the US is supposed to support the bilious works of Terry Jones' minions in the name of "free speech".







Post#9225 at 09-12-2012 07:20 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
Let's see you quote him doing that. The quote you just presented did nothing of the kind.

Note: criticizing a stupid, thoughtless, self-defeating and completely asinine response to "a vicious series of murder and terrorist activity" is NOT the same as excusing it.
Plenty of people here are blaming the video as to why terrorists murdered Americans...thus excusing them for thier actions as if they do not hold any accountability for thier actions. That is excusing their behavior. Just like if ia saw someone burning an American flag so I get angry and attack them for it, I am just as guilty of the attack. In essence they are playing into the terrorists hands saying we have to sacrifice our freedoms of speech so they wont attack us...sounds like a bully asking me for protection money so something bad doesnt happen.

The same people who vociferiously defend flag burning, federal funding of arts that often attack christianity etc, are the first here to ban someone from criticising Islam becuase it offends others...well too bad, this is America....and if the yayhoo Illinois Nazis can march in Skokie then someone elso can be critical of Islam...
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