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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 373







Post#9301 at 09-13-2012 03:17 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Lady Vagina View Post
The stock market?


You are back on my ignore list.
Thank the gods!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9302 at 09-13-2012 03:27 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by Wallace 88 View Post
Violence and rhetoric on both sides? Where have the bible thumpers been using violence? That is the problem. Equating people making a film with people who kill and spending more time wringing your hands over the first.
Ah, this just occurred to me and I hadn't considered it before.

You're comparing the amount of "hand-wringing" going on over this as compared to that.

That's wrong. Don't compare them. Both are wrong. Condemn both.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#9303 at 09-13-2012 03:29 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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I wonder

here's a much less emotional look at what Libya might mean for election polls -

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes...nd-vice-versa/


Reaction to Libya Attack Could Color Poll Analysis, and Vice Versa
The thing that caught my eye is Obama, as the incumbent, benefiting immediately in the short-term from any "rally round the flag moment."

Whether you like it or not, Obama has had no qualms of using Predator drones or sending in the Seals (if I was one of those that killed our Ambassador, I'd be shaking in my boots). A kill in October might give Obama a landslide.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9304 at 09-13-2012 04:08 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
You can defend someone's right to spread bigotry without being a bigot yourself.
You can also defend someone's right to spread bigotry without saying that they are right to do so. Because having a right and being right aren't the same thing.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#9305 at 09-13-2012 04:18 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Wrong.
You can defend someone's right to spread bigotry without being a bigot yourself.
Imagine if they put this much hot air in to denouncing the actual violence we routinely commit in the Middle East?

But yeah, what really matters is how this all affects Obama .... sheesh.
And the stock market, don't forget the stock market!!!
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#9306 at 09-13-2012 04:22 PM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Imagine if they put this much hot air in to denouncing the actual violence we routinely commit in the Middle East?
It's their guy that is doing it so that makes it acceptable. I noticed that they stopped bitching about the police state stuff after Obama got elected even though he has pretty much continued and expanded on policies that Bush put in place.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#9307 at 09-13-2012 04:37 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
It's their guy that is doing it so that makes it acceptable. I noticed that they stopped bitching about the police state stuff after Obama got elected even though he has pretty much continued and expanded on policies that Bush put in place.
You didn't "notice" that. You made it up. Because it's not true. It's still being bitched about and it's one of the main reasons Obama has lost some support, along with the continuing wars.

I don't think it's reasonable to compare this fraudulent piece of crap film in which the main actor apparently didn't even know he was playing Mohammed with The Last Temptation of Christ, which was artistically brilliant. There's a difference between ringing artistic changes on the human nature of a prophet and calling an entire world religion a cult of evil and violence, which is what this film did and Last Temptation did not. Last Temptation was a possibly-blasphemous but brilliant work. It would be wrong to suppress or ban either film, of course, but to condemn Last Temptation feels equally wrong.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#9308 at 09-13-2012 04:38 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Which makes me wonder why so many of them still cling to him as "their guy."
I seriously don't get it.
Suggest an alternative, then.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#9309 at 09-13-2012 04:44 PM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Which makes me wonder why so many of them still cling to him as "their guy." I seriously don't get it.
He is perceived as being willing to rob the rich and give to the poor and so the police state stuff is an acceptable trade off.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#9310 at 09-13-2012 04:49 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Quote Originally Posted by B Butler View Post
Clinton 42 seemed to handle the convention opportunity better.
I thought that too at the time. Clinton delivered exactly what his job was, to refute the entire Republican argument against Obama. In a way Clinton's job was easier because so much of the Republican case was not accurate and by simply telling the people the actual score he could accomplish his objective. The content of what he needed to say was known.

Obama had a more difficult job. He was addressing an American population with no experience of panics. There very likely is no solution to the unemployment problem that is consistent with current institutional constraints, so Obama cannot honestly talk about one (besides if there were a solution then the question of why Obama didn't do it becomes salient. All Obama can realistically offer is very slow improvement and hope that the institutional constraints change. Such change will not happen if Obama promises a recovery that cannot happen, or gives a realistic (but depressing) assessment of our prospects. So soaring rhetoric (Obama's speciality) is out of place and he needs a speech that is modest and yet moves people to support him. Only by winning can he make any progress on changing the institutional constraints. Polls after the speech indicate that he was fairly successful, and so I rate the speech as also accomplishing what it set out to do.
Last edited by Mikebert; 09-13-2012 at 04:56 PM.







Post#9311 at 09-13-2012 04:52 PM by Galen [at joined Aug 2010 #posts 1,017]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
You didn't "notice" that. You made it up. Because it's not true. It's still being bitched about and it's one of the main reasons Obama has lost some support, along with the continuing wars.
Compared to the amount of bitching going on during the Bush years you guys have been really quiet about it. Yes, there is some grumbling on the hard left message boards but that is about it.
If one rejects laissez faire on account of mans fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action.
- Ludwig von Mises

Beware of altruism. It is based on self-deception, the root of all evil.
- Lazarus Long







Post#9312 at 09-13-2012 04:59 PM by Mikebert [at Kalamazoo MI joined Jul 2001 #posts 4,502]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Stock market is now less than 5% from its all-time high. At least so far today.

That will make a lot of people feel good about their retirement potential.

Can't be bad for Obama. Are you better off than 4 years ago? Hell yes!
Another hundred points on the S&P and I'll be a happy man.







Post#9313 at 09-13-2012 05:05 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Brian Rush View Post
You didn't "notice" that. You made it up. Because it's not true. It's still being bitched about and it's one of the main reasons Obama has lost some support, along with the continuing wars.
Eh, I don't think he completely imagined it:



"[W]hen George W. Bush was president, Democrats were more concerned than Republicans about government power. In Gallup's September 2005 Governance survey, for example, 55% of Democrats said the government had too much power, compared with 50% of independents and 41% of Republicans. At that point, Democrats were almost certainly interpreting this question in terms of government anti-terrorism actions taken after 9/11, including the Patriot Act."

There was also a big and sudden shift in the partisan composition of anti-war protests:



In short, the data DOES support the theory that partisanship overrides idealism in regards to the WoT and various anti-terror measures. There has definitely been a huge shift in who is complaining about war and our loss of civil rights.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#9314 at 09-13-2012 05:08 PM by Brian Rush [at California joined Jul 2001 #posts 12,392]
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Quote Originally Posted by Galen View Post
Compared to the amount of bitching going on during the Bush years you guys have been really quiet about it.
You trust your own perceptions on that score? No one of any sense would.
"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches toward Bethlehem to be born?"

My blog: https://brianrushwriter.wordpress.com/

The Order Master (volume one of Refuge), a science fantasy. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZZWEAS
Smashwords link: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/382903







Post#9315 at 09-13-2012 05:12 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Wrong.
You can defend someone's right to spread bigotry without being a bigot yourself.
Sure, but, like I said, it muddies the water if you don't have a clear statement that you're offended by the bigotry itself. Which is something neither you or he have provided. We're left to guess.

Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
But yeah, what really matters is how this all affects Obama .... sheesh.
You may want to check the topic of the thread, dufus.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9316 at 09-13-2012 06:55 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I'm not offended by the bigotry. Guessing over.

Yeah, I was wondering what the hell this discussion was about. Had to read back for three pages.

ETA:
"Not offended" meaning that I agree with this dude/dudette's comment on the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ewD7RdXwTg
Exemplary!

Now if only if people like you, Weave and Wallace could follow his lead and say the same about the idiots that make hateful bigoted movies or burn Korans, your positions would be a lot clearer and the world a tad better.

I realize that's a lot to ask of, well, bigoted people.

Regarding topic - you don't need to trouble yourself by finding a point in the discussion; just check the thread's topic - it's at the top of each page.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9317 at 09-13-2012 07:03 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Please make it stop!

New NBC/WSJ poll just out -

http://tinyurl.com/98lassh


Polls: Obama holds the edge in Florida, Ohio and Virginia


In Ohio, the presidents lead is seven points, 50 percent to 43 percent.
Among a larger pool of registered voters, Obamas advantage over Romney slightly increases to 7 points in Virginia, 8 in Florida and 9 in Ohio.
But it's the WSJ - just another bunch of libetards!
Last edited by playwrite; 09-13-2012 at 07:06 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9318 at 09-13-2012 07:18 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mikebert View Post
Another hundred points on the S&P and I'll be a happy man.
Won't have to wait long since the FOMC just announced an open-ended welfare program for the investment class...
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#9319 at 09-13-2012 07:22 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
You still don't get it. Here it is again:

Here's me, walking in the other direction ...
Feel free to wallow in your own hatred, if that's what float's your boat.
Whoa, that is disappointing. I was rooting for you. I really thought you could do it.

I was wrong.

So this is how bigotry goes on unchecked - folks like you, just walking away, ignoring it exist.

Disappointing.

__________________________________________________

UPDATE!

The cast and crew of the movie say they were duped and denounce its bigotry -

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.1158326

Cast and crew of anti-Muslim movie: We were duped!
And yet you just can't do it.

You might want to advertise that. Who knows, you could wind up a movie star and get some of the people who actually defend your right to free speech killed as well. Now there's a way to show how Xer you are! You go, girl!
Last edited by playwrite; 09-13-2012 at 07:43 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9320 at 09-13-2012 07:33 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Won't have to wait long since the FOMC just announced an open-ended welfare program for the investment class...
It doesn't give wealth to anyone. It exchanges lower interest bearing securities (i.e., bank reserves) for EXISTING higher interest-bearing securities (i.e. mortgages) - it's just an asset swap; no net financial securities added to the real environment. It's only transmission mechanism is behavioral as in causing hysteria - "too much money supply", "too much inflation just around the corner", asset inflation; wealth effect. It's a sugar rush that eventually will be shown for what it is - nothing.

The best thing to come of it is to finally show that monetary policy is meaningless in this environment; that the real need is more federal deficit spending in a demand-starved economy.

In the meantime, go with the flow or fall further behind - like Romney.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9321 at 09-13-2012 07:54 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
It doesn't give wealth to anyone. It exchanges lower interest bearing securities (i.e., bank reserves) for EXISTING higher interest-bearing securities (i.e. mortgages) - it's just an asset swap; no net financial securities added to the real environment.
Ahem. Who decides how much those existing mortgages are really worth? The banks say face value, but if the Fed pays that they will have to take a loss (create money) or become the world's biggest debt collector.

It's only transmission mechanism is behavioral as in causing hysteria - "too much money supply", "too much inflation just around the corner", asset inflation; wealth effect. It's a sugar rush that eventually will be shown for what it is - nothing.
False.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/jfrank...&CPnberNov.pdf

The best thing to come of it is to finally show that monetary policy is meaningless in this environment; that the real need is more federal deficit spending in a demand-starved economy.

In the meantime, go with the flow or fall further behind - like Romney.
Monetary policy isn't non-productive. It is currently counter-productive.

Commodity price increases are a significant predictor of recession, and I hope I don't have to explain why that would be true for a country that relies so much on imported energy and raw materials.

QE, as a method of lowering real interest rates, has the innate effect of increasing commodity costs. Increased commodity costs predict declining economic activity and employment. Hope your brilliant financial manager is back in commodities, because $2,000 gold seems plausible again. (Hell, if he was in before the QE3 announcement, he could have made you 2.5% in a matter of minutes!)

Any questions?
Last edited by JohnMc82; 09-13-2012 at 08:00 PM.
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#9322 at 09-13-2012 08:21 PM by JohnMc82 [at Back in Jax joined Jan 2011 #posts 1,962]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Playdude is right. I need to do more to stand up for my fellow Muslims.

Let's see ...
Down with bigotry! Down with hatred! Down with movies mocking religious leaders! I condemn thee!!! (this of course, includes Jesus Camp)

I guess that oughta do it.
World peace should be arriving any minute now.
Yeah, if Ireland had just banned The Life of Brian in 1979 (they did), none of that sectarian violence would have happened in the 1980s!

Oh wait, it is almost as if people fight for reasons more serious than religious disagreements...
Those words, "temperate and moderate", are words either of political cowardice, or of cunning, or seduction. A thing, moderately good, is not so good as it ought to be. Moderation in temper, is always a virtue; but moderation in principle, is a species of vice.

'82 - Once & always independent







Post#9323 at 09-13-2012 08:23 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
Ahem. Who decides how much those existing mortgages are really worth? The banks say face value, but if the Fed pays that they will have to take a loss (create money) or become the world's biggest debt collector.



False.

http://www.hks.harvard.edu/fs/jfrank...&CPnberNov.pdf



Monetary policy isn't non-productive. It is currently counter-productive.

Commodity price increases are a significant predictor of recession, and I hope I don't have to explain why that would be true for a country that relies so much on imported energy and raw materials.

QE, as a method of lowering real interest rates, has the innate effect of increasing commodity costs. Increased commodity costs predict declining economic activity and employment. Hope your brilliant financial manager is back in commodities, because $2,000 gold seems plausible again. (Hell, if he was in before the QE3 announcement, he could have made you 2.5% in a matter of minutes!)

Any questions?
Well, at least this has some interesting meat on it.

"lost (create money)" - no it doesn't. The lost (or gain) in money is held on the FED's account; it's not in the actual economy. Whether they make or loss money doesn't matter; it goes into the "profit" the FED turns over to the Treasury and from there it goes poof into the ether from which it came. Who cares?

"false" - the paper says nothing about the transmission mechanism; it only shows a correlation. The mechanism could be all or in part a result of behavior (i.e. hysteria), but who cares? Commodity prices jump all over the place and, as the paper states, for many different reason. but it's influence on overall sustained generalized inflation is weak and getting weaker. Energy is the exception but its big historical moves have always been cost-push and make any demand-pull changes puny in comparison. Who cares?

"counter-productive" - you say counter, I say non. Who cares? I'm not defending monetary policy. It's BS and that BS is counter-productive to understanding the real problem in the economy - lack of demand due to the paying down ("savings") of an unprecedented household debt overhang not seen since the late 1920s -and, we know where that went and how long it took to get that resolve - and that was when smart people like Keynes and FDR who knew what to do. Today, hardly anyone does and those that do are not in power to do anything about it.

At best, there is only one reason why the FED does what it does and that is to try to keep this line going down -



- so that household debt overhang can keep coming down without killing off the muddle-through economy even in the face of insufficient demand. Everything else is a side show.
Last edited by playwrite; 09-13-2012 at 08:26 PM.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9324 at 09-13-2012 08:29 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Playdude is right. I need to do more to stand up for my fellow Muslims.

Let's see ...
Down with bigotry! Down with hatred! Down with movies mocking religious leaders! I condemn thee!!! (this of course, includes Jesus Camp)

I guess that oughta do it.
World peace should be arriving any minute now.
You go, girl. I love you -- again!

However, your potential movie career just went up in smoke. Sometimes, you pay the price for doing the right thing. Two thumbs up.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

Its not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. Its much more akin to printing money. - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#9325 at 09-13-2012 08:30 PM by Weave [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 909]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Playdude is right. I need to do more to stand up for my fellow Muslims.

Let's see ...
Down with bigotry! Down with hatred! Down with movies mocking religious leaders! I condemn thee!!! (this of course, includes Jesus Camp)

I guess that oughta do it.
World peace should be arriving any minute now.
I guess Obama should give back the million dollars he got from Bill Maher, who bashes religion all the time...including Islam...
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