Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

I had been making a test run of responding to some people I had on ignore. With only a couple of exceptions, there has been no improvement, so that experiment is over. This thread, and this forum more generally, presents proof positive that Boomers, entering old age, are more childish and immature than Xers and Millenials.

We boomers are not entering old age. Paleeze. Elderhood is NOT "old age."

With that I have one observation to provide: RealClearPolitics has comparisons between their averages from 2004, 2008 and 2012. The one from 2004 is worth paying attention to. After the conventions, Bush led Kerry by an average of about 6 points. Once the debates started, Bush's lead narrowed to about 2. After the debates it edged back up to about 2.5, and he ended up winning by 1.5 points. Obama has led by an average of about 3 after the conventions. If this year followed the trajectory of 2004 exactly (a big "if", and purely hypothetical), Romney would end up winning by 1.5 points.

Which is to say, the over-confidence of Democrats at this point is extremely misplaced. I have no idea what will happen, and I've said that repeatedly here. Those who say they do, and have started talking about the Democrats retaking both houses of Congress, are living in magic pony land. But all Boomers live in magic pony land. It's who they are.

Report from boomer magic land:

First, I don't see any ponies here.

Second, overconfidence is not the way to win, and Obama and his team don't have it.

Third, Kerry won the debates. Romney will have to win clearly in order to follow the Kerry trajectory. Obama is very smart and polished; I don't think he'll lose the debates. Romney is good in debates, at least until he starts making gaffes; which he did in the primaries. Such gaffes will be a lot more costly in the general. I hope he offers Obama another $10,000 bet.

A few things are clear when you look at 2008. One is that McCain trailed Obama throughout the summer, by as much as 7 points. Romney has been much closer. The other is that Obama's margin was greatly exaggerated by the stock market crash in September.

Who knows what will happen this year? Not me. We'll find out.

Might be true, but Romney is at the same relationship to Obama that McCain had now; Obama ahead by 4. Also, Romney has a -7 unfavorable rating and Obama a +6 favorable. The Republicans have never nominated such an unpopular candidate. If the economy looks like it's going to improve by election day, Obama could be back up to +6 points or more.

I do have the idea that Obama will win, but I'm not in a position to predict congress. All I can say is that the Democrats had better win it if Obama has any hope of accomplishing anything other than giving in to the opposition.

Romney is the perfect candidate to show the people just who benefits from the trickle-down policies that conservatives and libertarians favor: people like him. He is the poster boy for the fact that the rich are the only beneficiaries of the libertarian economic policies that they favor and impose on us. If more people get this, thanks to his living example, there is a chance for them to wake up from this ideological delusion.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

OK, you can have Romney and the Donald. Any other jerks suit your fancy?

What a bargain...here's a few thousand worthless WFQ's, a few thousand self righteous emotional twits, a few thousand air heads and the Mr. Popular crown as well.

You're cute when you're asleep, Cat.

Samuel Jackson's words are for those who already support Obama, but who don't think the election matters. For those libertarian inclined, on the other hand, you guys have a more serious sleeping problem (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz), but as I said, considering who Romney is and what he says, ought to wake you guys up. Voting for the bosses won't cure our ills. We need to look out for our interests, and the country's. The undercover bosses are not what they are portrayed to be! Meet the new Boss (Romney), same as the old Boss (Bush).

Xers may NEVER win the White House, and they may never rule congress either. Their cynicism and their adoption of the Reagan crap is discrediting them, and Paul Ryan is their posterboy. Just as their "music" reflects their out-of-date, negative, angry, grungy, snarky and tired ways, so does their politics. Americans don't vote for cynics; that's a fact! Look for the Xers never to take power. Boomers and boomer-cuspers will rule through the 4T, and Jonesers even beyond, and then the Millies will take over.

This is not an official Eric prediction. Xers are not all bad. I'm exaggerating for effect, to balance out the constant boomer-bashing.

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Sure, you'll live forever... right after the Silents are done doing so... whatever...

Do not expect us to go gently into the good night. Who do you think we are?

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The second "2 terms" were only 4 years and 3 months, and it was only about the war. It was the New Deal that was FDR's lasting legacy. No, "elders" are not in old age; and boomers are younger than folks were at their age in the last saeculum. 70s is not necessarily old anymore; 70 is the new 40.

The role of elders is leaders. There is no particular age-related place for "vision and moral support." Advisors come in all ages. Prophets are the leaders; nomads are the managers. But that doesn't necessarily mean boomers will be the leaders; it depends on the quality of the left (blue) boomers who are able and willing to step forward, whether or not their role in the 4T will be leaders that move our country forward. The question is not whether elders are the leaders in a 4T; the question is whether the boomers will fulfill their role or not. Are we the generation we thought we were in youth, or are we the generation that Xers think we are now?

Whatever you thought you were back then doesn't matter because we live in the now and you're being judged in the now.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

You're cute when you're asleep, Cat.

Samuel Jackson's words are for those who already support Obama, but who don't think the election matters. For those libertarian inclined, on the other hand, you guys have a more serious sleeping problem (Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz), but as I said, considering who Romney is and what he says, ought to wake you guys up. Voting for the bosses won't cure our ills. We need to look out for our interests, and the country's. The undercover bosses are not what they are portrayed to be! Meet the new Boss (Romney), same as the old Boss (Bush).

Xers may NEVER win the White House, and they may never rule congress either. Their cynicism and their adoption of the Reagan crap is discrediting them, and Paul Ryan is their posterboy. Just as their "music" reflects their out-of-date, negative, angry, grungy, snarky and tired ways, so does their politics. Americans don't vote for cynics; that's a fact! Look for the Xers never to take power. Boomers and boomer-cuspers will rule through the 4T, and Jonesers even beyond, and then the Millies will take over.

This is not an official Eric prediction. Xers are not all bad. I'm exaggerating for effect, to balance out the constant boomer-bashing.

Mr. Popular, you shouldn't shit on second wave X LW'ers (grungy/negative attitudes/angry/ect.) because they're about all you've got to work with and grow with right now.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

If I act like anything other than an Xer, I act like a GI. You just don't get it.

My dear sir, I have known GIs, I was raised by GIs, taught by GIs, worked with GIs. You are no GI.

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

Of course, Rani. He's cool and popular; He's got charisma and, personality!

In the "new normal", Samuel L. Jackson>Henry Kissinger.

Just like Playdude said, we've got to get with the program and wake...the...f...*yawn*...the...fu...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!



Prince

PS: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

Although I'm incredibly fond of Xers in general, I have observed that they are much more interested in being "cool kidz" than any Silent, Boomer or Millie ever cared about being.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Do not expect us to go gently into the good night. Who do you think we are?

No, I don't expect you to be a certain brand of Missionaries. For then you wouldn't be you. The Transies didn't either (go quietly that is)--they had to be voted out. Which if Boomers keep going the way they are they're soon going to find happening to themselves.

Consider my sudden negativism a reaction to the Boomers' sudden resurgence in Panglossian optimism.

Dear lord do you guys have mood swings. When you're not on top of the dog pile, everything will be Dystopic, suddenly when things look like they're going your way, Utopia is just around the corner. Just make up your minds already.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

I believe the problem is that the view from some people's balloon looks like this ... While other's looks like this ...

Of course individual choice in ballooning comes down to it. It always seems to. Some like to climb aboard a communal airship, while others like individual mobility first seen during the Regency period.

Laura Nyro wrote a few songs covered by The 5th Dimension: Stoned Soul Picnic/Wedding Bell Blues,
and Ashford/Simpson wrote California Soul.

Prince

PS: Damn, that's some "Good Sh*t"!

That it is.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Whatever you thought you were back then doesn't matter because we live in the now and you're being judged in the now.

We have seen the pattern that the GIs set as they faced the terrifying reality that the Lost Generation faced so badly -- old age. GIs stayed mentally and physically active and cheated the calendar by Lost standards. The Silent (unlike the Progressive Generation which knew no true Civic generation) followed suit. Boomers know the pattern, and until and unless the Crisis goes awry they have no cause to do likewise. Boomers seem to have polarized between those who went sober and avoided cancerweed products and those who got involved in every possible vice and paid dearly for such; those in the first category may have been the lightest drinkers and smokers in a long time and may set some unusual group records for longevity.

75 is the new 50 if one takes care of oneself (40 implies the extension of reproductive life, at least for women)... but 90 will still be 90, barring some medical miracles that stop or reverse aging by 2040 or so. Being able to make wise contributions might be one way to mitigate the generational cycle.

Originally Posted by pbrower2a

We have seen the pattern that the GIs set as they faced the terrifying reality that the Lost Generation faced so badly -- old age. GIs stayed mentally and physically active and cheated the calendar by Lost standards. The Silent (unlike the Progressive Generation which knew no true Civic generation) followed suit. Boomers know the pattern, and until and unless the Crisis goes awry they have no cause to do likewise. Boomers seem to have polarized between those who went sober and avoided cancerweed products and those who got involved in every possible vice and paid dearly for such; those in the first category may have been the lightest drinkers and smokers in a long time and may set some unusual group records for longevity.

75 is the new 50 if one takes care of oneself (40 implies the extension of reproductive life, at least for women)... but 90 will still be 90, barring some medical miracles that stop or reverse aging by 2040 or so. Being able to make wise contributions might be one way to mitigate the generational cycle.

Long life is also dependent upon not having to break one's back in labor intensive professions. Longer lives were always available to the nobles, clerics, and upper classes of all times. The laborers however never lived long. If the power were to go off, poof goes the long life span for the majority of the population.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Whatever you thought you were back then doesn't matter because we live in the now and you're being judged in the now.

You miss the point, Xer. Boomers or anyone can do better if they remember what they think they can be, not what some cynical, angry younger generation says about them. What Xers think doesn't matter; what history says, will. I'm not so sure the boomers have it in us; but we still have the potential.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Mr. Popular, you shouldn't shit on second wave X LW'ers (grungy/negative attitudes/angry/etc.) because they're about all you've got to work with and grow with right now.

Well good; I am grateful for any Xer that does right and helps the boomers to do the right things too.

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

I know!



Eric, I believe I have already stated that I consider you a friend, and because I would like to continue that,
I would rather not discuss politics with you.

Sincerely, Prince

You don't have to discuss anything; just realize the truth!

I have many friends I disagree with politically; do you?

I don't think I see entirely eye to eye with anyone posting here now; I prefer to discuss things with people I disagree with, with rare exceptions like vandal, felix and galen.

Originally Posted by Chas'88

No, I don't expect you to be a certain brand of Missionaries. For then you wouldn't be you. The Transies didn't either (go quietly that is)--they had to be voted out. Which if Boomers keep going the way they are they're soon going to find happening to themselves.

Consider my sudden negativism a reaction to the Boomers' sudden resurgence in Panglossian optimism.

Dear lord do you guys have mood swings. When you're not on top of the dog pile, everything will be Dystopic, suddenly when things look like they're going your way, Utopia is just around the corner. Just make up your minds already.

~Chas'88

Well I don't know if we are or not. I don't indulge too much in that kinda thingee myself. I know Mr. Kaiser does tend to wax and wane.

If there's any intelligence out there in America, it will be the tea party loonies voted in in 2010, who will be voted out. That's the only "way they are" that is out there. That may include the boomer looney lady from Minnesota, but it will likely mainly be Xers. That would be cause for some celebration; but having lived through the last 40 years, I am too used to disappointment to think "the best of all possible worlds" is soon to be upon us. As I have said again and again, you guys are totally mixed up if you think our politics is a generational problem. It is an ideological problem, and belief in the wrong ideologies cuts across all generations. If boomer right-wing fanatics get voted out, that would be just fine with me!

But in any case, Dr. Leibniz (pangloss) was making a philosophical point; that despite all the problems, the world as it is, is indeed the best possible one. We would not want a world that was too easy; nothing is learned that way. There is no thrill, game or adventure that way; no good story that consists only of happy endings. You have to take the bitter with the sweet. Voltaire was wrong about Dr. Pangloss; but then, he was only an enlightenment philosopher, and such people were ignorant of some of the wisdom which more spiritual minds can grasp (and is beyond some of our materialist friends here; or in my case, a few of them being my non-friends).

Originally Posted by Chas'88

I disagree with the classification of both Boomer and GI for JPT. If he is not acting as an Xer (which I believe he quite is), then I would say he acts more like a Lost than any other generation.

JPT just shows that arrogant, blind fanaticism is not the property of any one generation or archetype, even if prevalent opinion around here assigns that trait to boomers alone.

Originally Posted by princeofcats67

But, I believe you may want to find a different word other than discuss to describe your interactions with those whom you disagree. Just an observation and suggestion.

I think I am saying what is the truth, as I see it, as best I can, in the perhaps vain hope that it might help clear up some misconceptions. If someone else makes a good point I hadn't thought of, I say so too. However, what usually happens is that people come around to some new or different ideas in their own way and their own time, if they do so at all; not as the immediate result of a debate or a discussion. It is up to people to be curious, concerned and thoughtful, if they choose to be. In my opinion, it is wise and useful for people to be curious, concerned and thoughtful. Our democracy depends on it. If we "snooze" we lose.

Originally Posted by Chas'88

I disagree with the classification of both Boomer and GI for JPT. If he is not acting as an Xer (which I believe he quite is), then I would say he acts more like a Lost than any other generation. Except he seemingly has no Little Orphan Annie Greatest cusper to melt his Warbucksian heart. Who knows though, he might just find one... tomorrow! (Hint: Boomers, find a 2000s cohort orphan that needs a home and find some way to indoctrinate her and get JPT to adopt her)

I guess that just about does it for this little satyr play.

~Chas'88

My grandparents were GIs, and in many ways I had more in common with them than with my parents, who are Boomers. Note that I do not hate my parents, and I get along with them quite well. When I make comments about Boomers, it's referring to the generation as a whole. There are many exceptions. I'm also a later Xer, so I have a few things in common with Millenials. The difference between Xers and Millenials is that Xers have some connection to the pre-Boomer-dominated world, while Millenals do not.

The GIs were not perfect. They were not very well-educated, and they were not deep thinkers. But when it comes to the "Generation Gap" and the conflict between the Boomer world view and the GI world view, I'm 90% on the side of the GIs. Which is what I meant by my comparison.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

The GIs were not perfect. They were not very well-educated, and they were not deep thinkers. But when it comes to the "Generation Gap" and the conflict between the Boomer world view and the GI world view, I'm 90% on the side of the GIs. Which is what I meant by my comparison.

Not really; you have no sense of social or collective responsibility or the respect GIs had for the New Deal; only individual responsibility to obey the morals decreed by authority. In these respects you are no different from right-wing boomers.

Originally Posted by JustPassingThrough

My grandparents were GIs, and in many ways I had more in common with them than with my parents, who are Boomers. Note that I do not hate my parents, and I get along with them quite well. When I make comments about Boomers, it's referring to the generation as a whole. There are many exceptions. I'm also a later Xer, so I have a few things in common with Millenials. The difference between Xers and Millenials is that Xers have some connection to the pre-Boomer-dominated world, while Millenals do not.

The GIs were not perfect. They were not very well-educated, and they were not deep thinkers. But when it comes to the "Generation Gap" and the conflict between the Boomer world view and the GI world view, I'm 90% on the side of the GIs. Which is what I meant by my comparison.

Ahh yes, that I do recall. Not all Boomers were on the Boomer side of the Generation gap though, keep that in mind. And a lot of times, GIs lumped in later Silents with their early Boomer children as part of the "Generation Gap". Such is the case in this musical about later Silents coming of age in mid-1950s America:

Originally Posted by Flower Drum Song by Rodgers & Hammerstein

What are we going to do about
The Other Generation?
They never take the blame for one mistake.--Oh no!--
Their parents are responsible
For ev'ry mistake they make!

Even at a relatively young age, Boomers were blaming the GIs for everything... and GIs only had one fleeting hope, according to the song:

A very discouraging problem is
The Other Generation.
And soon there'll be another one as well!
And when our out of hand sons
Are bringing up our grandsons,
I hope our grandsons give their fathers hell!--Can't wait to see it!--
I hope our grandsons give their fathers hell!

Well, Xers? Did you do your GI grandparents proud and give those Late Silents & Early Boomers hell?

I think I already know the answer.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Not really; you have no sense of social or collective responsibility or the respect GIs had for the New Deal; only individual responsibility to obey the morals decreed by authority. In these respects you are no different from right-wing boomers.

Let me kindly remind you that not all GIs thought well of "that man in the white house" who passed the New Deal, and JPT might be referring to those kinds of GIs.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

I disagree with the classification of both Boomer and GI for JPT. If he is not acting as an Xer (which I believe he quite is), then I would say he acts more like a Lost than any other generation.

He is very much what I have come to expect from many of the younger Xers. The Lost tended not to be as in your face as JPT is. I knew the enough of the Lost personally to have dealt with both the cantankerous types and the really mellow ones and there is a very good chance that he will be of the former category. A lucky few of the next Nomad generation will be fortunate enough to know one of them as an adult as I did. I hope they listen to them carefully as I did because it will save them endless amounts of trouble.

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Let me kindly remind you that not all GIs thought well of "that man in the white house" who passed the New Deal, and JPT might be referring to those kinds of GIs.

The Lost that I knew weren't all that impressed with him either. My GI grandparents were graduating high school at the time and they weren't impressed with him either. If anything they seemed to think of him as just another corrupt politician.