The GIs disdained, even despised, anyone they perceived to be looking for a handout, or "on the dole". Social Security and Medicare were different from welfare in their view, whether that was valid or not.Originally Posted by Chas'88
"I see you got your fist out, say your peace and get out. Yeah I get the gist of it, but it's alright." - Jerry Garcia, 1987
IMO, "understanding is a three-edged sword", Eric. There's your side, my side, and then there's the truth. IOW, solutions are accomplished by working-together, not by one person monopolizing the power. So, if that be true, wouldn't you consider that to be more of a "collective-mindset"? Is that socially/collectively irresponsible of me?
Now, juxtapose my POV against your own.
Which one of us is the individualist and which one is the collectivist?
Now some may say that this is a 4T and that it is necessary to consolidate power for the purpose of getting things done due to the time-critical nature of some issues. I can understand that opinion, but I would hope that it is the exception, as opposed to the rule. IOW, why not attempt to "break the cycle"?
You see Eric, IMO, WE are what make "History"; You and I. Everyone. All of us---together. All of the past occurances, and all of the future possibilities are right here in each of these "now" moments. That is how "History" is made. We decide.
Prince
PS: IOW, it's a "Family Affair"! Can you feel me, Brother?
I Am A Child of God/Nature/The Universe
I Think Globally and Act Individually(and possibly, voluntarily join-together with Others)
I Pray for World Peace & I Choose Less-Just Say: "NO!, Thank You."
I've heard that some polling organizations skew their polls in order to set a narrative, and then bring them into line as the election nears.
National Journal: Polls Show Close Races in Nevada, North Carolina, and Virginia
National Journal had one of the outlier polls I cited as suspicious a few days ago, showing Obama with a 7 point lead nationally. We've been told in the past few weeks that Obama was crushing Romney in the swing states. Now this?
And there is more:
MEDIA IGNORE INDEPENDENTS' SWING TOWARD ROMNEY
Yes, this is a conservative source. However, the article provides numbers from a variety of polls. Long story short: in most polls, Romney leads Obama among independents, sometimes by a significant margin. This is true of national polls and state polls. Obama's leads in recent polls have all been a result of those polls weighting for a very high Democrat turnout, in many cases higher than 2008. What's more, when it comes to actual voter registration, Democrats have declined since 2008, and those voters have registered as independents.
So maybe the skewed polls are coming back to reality now that the election is nearing. The media made its big convention push for Obama, and now they have to revert to something resembling the truth in order to salvage their credibility? I thought it was Rasmussen that had to do that?
Last edited by JustPassingThrough; 09-28-2012 at 05:26 AM.
"I see you got your fist out, say your peace and get out. Yeah I get the gist of it, but it's alright." - Jerry Garcia, 1987
I don't think so; the ones who hated "that man" in the White House must have been older. Those who hated him were the rich tycoons. FDR welcomed their hatred.
GIS did not despise people "on the dole." They lived through the depression as teenagers and young adults, and many of them received "handouts," since that was all that stood between them and starvation through no fault of their own. So they knew how useful a safety net is, and how they might need it again too someday, as much as anyone else who might be getting it now. GIs understood the value of labor unions and regulations to protect them against capricious and greedy, selfish bosses, and many of them fought for these things. GIs understood that we're all in it together; at least until they got much older and more conservative, as older folks often do. Right-wing boomers and many Xers today do not understand this, and never have.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 09-28-2012 at 06:23 AM.
No, not if working together in your POV includes working through our government as well as outside it. I'm not sure it does though. But I'm sure you know my thoughts on all of that. So you say, anyway.
This paragraph is not directed at you, but I was just watching that "Test It Maybe" video again, and I couldn't help wondering. What if the companies just made their chemicals safe in the first place? But they don't, so the people have to ask their government to get heavy handed and regulate them. So what do these companies do? Lobby congress to ignore the people, and then buy candidates who spout deceptive slogans about "freedom" and "government intrusion" and "if we have less regulation, business will do better and create jobs." It's all a big bleepin smokescreen to avoid doing what they should do on their own in the first place. Just make safe chemicals, and shut the bleep up. And it's up to we the people not to fall for these republican slogans and not be fooled.
I would hope otherwise. We need to get back to getting things done, and that takes working through society and government. Individualism is fine; collective corporate behavior that endangers our lives, justified and permitted in the name of "free enterprise," is not. Bosses are not "individualists," and they don't care a fig about non-conformity; what they want is obedience. Now come on, you knew I would say all that. Try to stay awake though. You can be cute when you're awake too, cool cat!Now, juxtapose my POV against your own.
Which one of us is the individualist and which one is the collectivist?
Now some may say that this is a 4T and that it is necessary to consolidate power for the purpose of getting things done due to the time-critical nature of some issues. I can understand that opinion, but I would hope that it is the exception, as opposed to the rule. IOW, why not attempt to "break the cycle"?Kitty Perry (Kitty Purry) is "Wide Awake" after all. So yes, *I* am the individualist here.
I couldn't agree more. As Bob Welch said in the video I just posted, we invent the future that we want.You see Eric, IMO, WE are what make "History"; You and I. Everyone. All of us---together. All of the past occurances, and all of the future possibilities are right here in each of these "now" moments. That is how "History" is made. We decide.
Last edited by Eric the Green; 09-28-2012 at 06:30 AM.
There were Missionaries who hated FDR as well. One was my great-aunt--I've seen a letter she wrote after the 1940 election--she talked about him just the way lots of Republicans talk about Obama.
I do think immigration reform might be the first outcome of a Democratic victory, because the Republicans will have to grasp that they aren't going to have a future if they keep talking about sending millions back to where they came from. Serious economic work, though, is less likely.
As you have probably noticed, my visits here have become very infrequent. What has happened here is very sad: most of you have only one thing to talk about any more; each other. It's become a very dysfunctional family, in which, as in most dysfunctional families, the least functional people set the tone. Bill Strauss would be very sad to see it and so am I, particularly when I think of the early years, dominated by the joy of making new science. This is also rather similar to the current state of the US Congress.
As for the election--I believe I started this thread, three years or so ago--the House is now very definitely in play. The Democrats are looking stronger in the Senate, but there's no way they're going to come out with 60 votes. That means we wouldn't have any more government shutdown threats--reconciliation can take care of fundamental budget issues--but the remaining Republicans will be more conservative than ever with Lugar and Snowe gone. I don't know if there are some among them who will be willing to foresake the Tea Party and the Koch's superpac out of self-preservation. And meanwhile, I don't think anyone has any idea how to fix the economy now because it's so structurally unsound. Wages are too low to create a boom, and we tried lending everyone money they couldn't pay. What's left?
David Kaiser '47
My blog: History Unfolding
My book: The Road to Dallas: The Assassination of John F. Kennedy
Undeniable. Destroy the power grid, and there goes the information technology and the consumer society, and we are quickly back in the early-industrial era or even the agrarian era, with the 'old assumptions' reasserting why they existed. That's what life was like in Berlin in the summer of 1945.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
I disagree with the classification of both Boomer and GI for JPT. If he is not acting as an Xer (which I believe he quite is), then I would say he acts more like a Lost than any other generation. Except he seemingly has no Little Orphan Annie Greatest cusper to melt his Warbucksian heart. Who knows though, he might just find one... tomorrow! (Hint: Boomers, find a 2000s cohort orphan that needs a home and find some way to indoctrinate her and get JPT to adopt her)
I guess that just about does it for this little satyr play.
~Chas'88
Nah, JPT is Gilded - all the way (see William Graham Sumner, etc.).
But here's what I came up with after fooling around with RealClearPolitics' totally awesome "Make Your Own Map" feature:
If Obama carries every state Kerry won in '04, plus Ohio and New Mexico (and it now seems to be a foregone conclusion that Obama will win both), all he needs to do is win one out of Colorado, Florida, Iowa, Nevada or Virginia, and he wins.
If Obama wins all of Kerry's states plus Ohio and New Mexico but loses all of the five I mentioned above, it's an exact tie, 269-269 - and then Romney wins in the House because a majority of the state delegations will vote him in.
But maybe if the putative Robin Hoods stopped trying to take from law-abiding citizens and give to criminals, take from men and give to women, take from believers and give to anti-believers, take from citizens and give to "undocumented" immigrants, and take from heterosexuals and give to homosexuals, they might have a lot more success in taking from the rich and giving to everyone else.
Don't blame me - I'm a Baby Buster!
It's a relative thing. He could teach you a lot.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
Bingo!
Two thumbs up.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
Consider the difference between two hypothetical siblings, 'Esteban' born in 1996 in Mexico and brought 'illegally' by his parents to the US and 'Steven' born in the US in 2000 soon after 'Esteban' was brought over to the US and by birth a US citizen. Their parents did a good job of avoiding legal scrutiny by being better Americans than most Americans -- taking jobs that people who have alternatives shun, avoiding arrests, staying of drugs, performing well in school, not living beyond their limited means, speaking English better than many people who have no excuse... 'Esteban' is more American than most Americans, so to speak, and had to be. Is 'Esteban' an American or a Mexican?
'Esteban' would never fit in in Mexico.
The adults are not in charge. The senile, the fanatical, and the anti-social may be chronological adults but adult in only those ways. I am reminded of Eric Hoffer's The True Believer at times -- the character programmed to take extreme positions on any subject. This is the white racist who becomes a fanatical Muslim, the Commie who becomes a Fascist or vice-versa. People who could believe in the nearly-divine role of the Tsar of All the Russias could quickly come to recognize Lenin and later Stalin as their 'savior'. I can't quite imagine what the people who attend Tea Party rallies become when they find that their rattlesnake flags and their "I will give up my guns when you pry them away from my cold dead hands" bumper stickers are disillusioned.As you have probably noticed, my visits here have become very infrequent. What has happened here is very sad: most of you have only one thing to talk about any more; each other. It's become a very dysfunctional family, in which, as in most dysfunctional families, the least functional people set the tone. Bill Strauss would be very sad to see it and so am I, particularly when I think of the early years, dominated by the joy of making new science. This is also rather similar to the current state of the US Congress.
If you can't convince 'Archie Bunker' then work on his more malleable kids.As for the election--I believe I started this thread, three years or so ago--the House is now very definitely in play. The Democrats are looking stronger in the Senate, but there's no way they're going to come out with 60 votes. That means we wouldn't have any more government shutdown threats--reconciliation can take care of fundamental budget issues--but the remaining Republicans will be more conservative than ever with Lugar and Snowe gone. I don't know if there are some among them who will be willing to foresake the Tea Party and the Koch's superpac out of self-preservation. And meanwhile, I don't think anyone has any idea how to fix the economy now because it's so structurally unsound. Wages are too low to create a boom, and we tried lending everyone money they couldn't pay. What's left?
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
While we all throw in one-liners and the occasional name-calling (myself included), most people come here to offer at least on a few occasions some semblance of discourse, an exchange of rational ideas, whether from the Right or the Left or from one of the different generations represented here.
Should we wait a little longer for some such contribution from you? Or, should we write you off as someone who got misdirected on his Google search when looking for a sophomoric electronic playground to practice his trolling?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
we need a *good* president. as i see it, mr. obama has done pretty well and has earned a second term.
many of his problems have to do with republican obstructionism. they wouldn't even let a veteran's job bill get through earlier this month. that's how crass they are.
It's okay Prince, you can stay shut-in and play with your cats for as long as you like.Of course, Rani. He's cool and popular; He's got charisma and, personality!
In the "new normal", Samuel L. Jackson>Henry Kissinger.
Just like Playdude said, we've got to get with the program and wake...the...f...*yawn*...the...fu...
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
Prince
PS: Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
it's exile 67 under another handle. the spelling boo-boos and bad grammar give him away.
Oh well, whatever, nevermind
And a number of folks here are stuck in some parody of what came 20 or so years later -
Please just stay away from guns. Or, it could just be sayounara for you!
Hey, see if you spot Justin and Rani in the video!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
You heard, hey?
Gad, no wonder we're wiping the floor with you guys.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
And let me remind you, ah, how many times did he win election?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
So being on the losing side runs in the family; how nice for you.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
Oh yea, the guys who made those things the "3rd rail of politics." Yea, those guys.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
The majority are here doing their thing to prop up and sustain or hitch a ride with the magic pony show.
bingo.......
Is that what attracted you?
If not, then maybe an occasional paragraph or two from you would reveal your true purpose here.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
If it turns out that the Repubs end up wiping the floor with you guys, how much crow are you willing and able to eat?You heard, hey?
Gad, no wonder we're wiping the floor with you guys.
Well, a break for a little snark seem appropriate before we go back to declaring how various conflicting magic pony pastures are due to spontaneously materialize in November. While vaguely optimistic, I'm still not foreseeing any regeneracies.
