With a little more research, I think the consensus was that it was a toss-up with Obama leading the first half and McCain taking the second.
There are several links: liberals saying Obama, conservatives saying McCain, and others saying neither. https://www.google.com/search?q=firs...w=1366&bih=643
Last edited by Aldaris; 10-04-2012 at 01:23 AM.
'True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.' - Kurt Vonnegut
The pity party of the left continues.....
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82000.html
Remember this though? Anything McCain said in the first debate was already compromised.Originally Posted by The Rani
~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."
I'll give it to Romney, he definitely showed his prowess. But he was hardly put on the defensive. I'm just looking at the history, and the trend I see with Obama is he has a weak first performance that improves tremendously as it gets closer to election day. If Romney is smart, he'll need to be prepared for what could be a pretty harsh shellacking.
'True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.' - Kurt Vonnegut
If Obama resorts to negative/personal attacks and the liberal blame game, it's over.
Only if Romney can defend himself against it. But if Romney handles his defensive strategy in the same manner that Obama handled his tonight, that's really all that will be needed to cause doubt with independents and undecideds (which are about the flakiest people on the planet), while at the same time, getting the Dem base riled up before the election. However, if Romney can manage to hold up to severe scrutiny, it would have the opposite effect.
'True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country.' - Kurt Vonnegut
the president is a cool customer. he may have been too cool last night. wasn't quite prepared for how big an opportunistic liar romney is. he still started to fight back more near the end of the evening.
maybe it's a game of political rope-a-dope. the dope certainly played his part.
The worm begins to turn
So we wake up today after the "big win" party for Etch-a-Sketch
But, a few people didn't drink the Kool-Aid and are starting to point to the magic ponies -
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/201...eys-sick-joke/
Romney’s Sick Joke
OK, so Obama did a terrible job in the debate, and Romney did well. But in the end, this isn’t or shouldn’t be about theater criticism, it should be about substance. And the fact is that everything Obama said was basically true, while much of what Romney said was either outright false or so misleading as to be the moral equivalent of a lie.
Above all, there’s this:
MR. ROMNEY: Let — well, actually — actually it’s — it’s — it’s a lengthy description, but number one, pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan.
No, they aren’t. Romney’s advisers have conceded as much in the past; last night they did it again.
I guess you could say that Romney’s claim wasn’t exactly a lie, since some people with preexisting conditions would retain coverage. But as I said, it’s the moral equivalent of a lie; if you think he promised something real, you’re the butt of a sick joke.
And we’re talking about a lot of people left out in the cold — 89 million, to be precise.
Furthermore, all of this should be taken in the context of Romney’s plan not just to repeal Obamacare but to drastically cut Medicaid.
So enough with the theater criticism; Romney needs to be held accountable for dishonesty on a huge scale.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
all he needs to do is point out that romney lied about his economic plan and his health care plan. i would wager that obama's advertising team is working on some good material right now as we speak.
because etch-a-sketch gave them a ton of good stuff.
Yes, and those of us who understand policy reasonably well are less likely to see it than the less informed people the debates are intended to influence. The debates are theater, and Mitt was the leading-man in the play. My wife is so mad at Obama right now, she may not vote.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
More from the non- Kool-Aid drinkers
pointing out the obvious to what will eventually be a lot of embarrassed Romney-love pundits from last night -
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...rss_ezra-klein
Truly a night of victory for the magic ponies!Romney’s policy vagueness pays off
....But for the most part, this debate was where Romney’s strategy of being purposefully vague about the nature of his policies paid off. The first third of the debate was an argument over the missing numbers in Romney’s tax plan. Romney fiercely objected to Obama’s characterization of his tax plan as a $5 trillion tax cut. After all, he says he’ll pay for all of it, somehow, later. And he won’t permit what is, on paper, a huge tax cut on the rich to cut taxes on the rich. So if you take what’s on the page, the cost is $5 trillion and it’s a huge tax cut for the rich. If you take what Romney says will eventually be on the page, the cost is…nothing.MAGIC PONY!
Elsewhere, Romney insisted that he had a “lengthy description” of his health-care plan on his web site, and seemed satisfied when Obama didn’t challenge the comment. Romney’s description of his health-care plan is less than 400 words, or about half the length of a typical op-ed column. But there’s enough there that Romney could say he has a plan for people with pre-existing conditions, even if it’s not clear how that plan would work, or whether it’s any different than what the law says now. As for what he’d do about the uninsured, that also wasn’t very clear. MAGIC PONY!
The same was true on Wall Street reform, where Romney insisted he opposed Dodd-Frank and promised to replace it with…something. MAGIC PONY
And on spending cuts, where Romney said he would balance the budget but didn’t offer many specific cuts beyond eliminating funding for PBS. MAGIC PONY!
The question is do people keep drinking this kool-aid all the way to election day and wake up in 2013 to disaster. Or, well, do they grow a brain in the next 24 or hours?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
I agree.
Mitt Romney won the debate, no question.
Some critical thinking is in order here. Everyone knows that Obama is well-spoken. It was a given that Romney would be well-prepared. Obama stood there and let him talk as much as he wanted to talk. He looked tired and passive. Why?
Something isn't quite right. It is certainly possible that Obama miscalculated Romney's ability (doubtful), but it looked like Obama threw this one. Time will tell, but I doubt we see this again next time. Obama is known to rope-a-dope.
That's what you consider a response? Well, I guess it has as much substance to it as Romney last night, i.e. about the weight of a really nasty fart.
The quesiton is what specifc "magic pony" did Obama offer last night?
I can certainly give you a list of what Romney provided because a magic pony popped out every time he opened his mouth. And you bought every one of them.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
Let's face it, Obama stunk up the room. He conceded where concession was not needed, failed to challenge even obvious lies and forgot to mention anyhting about Bain or the 47%. Krugman is right, he's going for the capillaries yet again. That worked on McCain. I don't see it being effective against Romney.hits it out of the park with his magic ponies!!
$5T in tax cuts for the rich and $2T in unneeded defense spending completely paid for by closing tax loop holes that don't exist!
And wow, it's going to cut the deficit without any impact on old people or anything else but Big Bird!
And nobody is going to lose any health insurance, pre-conditions not a problem, and it will all be paid for by magic ponies pooping gold nuggets.
This was a debate for people who want to believe in magic ponies and don't have the intellectual capacity to question Mr. Etch-a-sketch drawing those ponies out of thin air.
What was missing from this debate was Obama simply responding to the obvious -
Mitt Romney is a liar. He will say anything, do anything and draw magic ponies on his etch-a-sketch to get elected. He actually threw his party's platform under the bus tonight. It will be noticed - eventually - I say within the next 24 hours.
Maybe it was Obama being presidential by nature or by design or just his utter disbelief in finally facing Mr. Etch-a-Sketch. Whether he sand bagged Romney on purpose or not, there is now a treasure trove of Romney stated bullshit that can now be directly compared to what he has said before and what are just basic facts if not just basic arithmetic.
Sure, the talking heads scored this one for the Etch-a-Sketch in the immediate aftermath, but lets see how it plays over the next 48 hours as Romney's lies are put to the test; certainly the stuff of some great campaign ads in the coming days.
My bet is in the coming days what will eventually evolve ...
Let's see...
Obama may yet pull defeat from the jaws of victory.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
Romney doesn't exist in that frame of reference. His frame is relativistic. What's said today applies in it's time and place, but tomorrow is another day.Starting to emerge already -
Essentially, he threw his own tax plan under the bus.
The Koch brothers are not going to be happy.
Is there any evidence that the past is prologue for Romney?
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
CNN, one source of magic ponies
Hey, you consider yourself an expert on checking out what's wrong with polls.
Here's an easy one for you. Check out the internals on CNN's vaunted snap polls, specifically page 8 -
http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2012/im...0/03/top12.pdf
No one was polled who is under 50 years old
No one was polled who is not White
No one was polled who lives outside of the South.
You think there might be a build-in bias? Or is your brain still clouded this morning by last night's magic pony farts?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service
“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke
"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman
If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite
Sure, it was odd and disappointing that Obama put forth such a lame effort. My question is why? There has never been an Obama performance like this. It was either calculated or he was very tired or medicated. None of his recent speeches look like this. I think he was taking a reading on Romney. Time will tell if they can make anything out of it.
H-m-m-m. Possible but not very likely, I'm afraid. Romney needed a win tonight. If this was strategy, then the correct one for Obama shold have been to clobber Romney now, and use the rest of the campaign to bolster the Congress. Obvioulsy, that didin't happen.
I wish it was true, though.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
Mitt clearly showed himself a liar, an opportunist, and a bully. Those attributes can work once in a crisis, but those attributes fail fast or fail big.
The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid "dens of crime" (or) even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered... in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by (those) who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern."
― C.S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters
Wow, the big mean liar meme....pathetic....
That's what I was hoping for too.
Also, any claims such as "Obama is playing rope a dope. He's going to clobber Romney next time" ring hollow when you consider that early voting is already taking place.
"Rope a dope' simply allowed the dope to bank votes from the easily persuaded that will count on election night.
Well in the next three days we'll see any Romney bounce priced in to the polls.
I do agree with what Odin said about Lehrer. It's time for him to be put to pasture. He didn't challenge any of the lies yet he acted the role of clock hawk thus cutting off complex answers in favor of sound bytes yet he still by his own admission mamaged to lose a segment of questions before the all importent commericals.
Overall, I'd give Romney a B on his performance, Obama a D and Lehrer gets an F.
Without more information, I can only assume that Obama figured that the economy wasn't the appropriate topic for clobbering anyone. At some point, journalists and pundits will figure out that Romney really didn't say much even though he gave a smashing performance.
It helped that he eschewed the "fake bake" and stupid jokes. Someone oiled the Tin Man.
Romney isn't McCain. Debate is something he does very well ... as last night more than proved. Unfortunately, the substance of the debate is far less impotant than the style.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
Yea, I thought about the possiblility that he said "take this job and shove it". The problem with that is, his speeches are still well delivered. I could very well be wrong on the details, but I am sure that I am right that something is very off about Obama's performance.
That applies even more to Romney, who was overly aggessive for the Town Hall foramt. Romney needs to tone it down, and Obama needs a pulse. We'll so how that plays in due time.
Marx: Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Lennon: You either get tired fighting for peace, or you die.
