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Thread: 2012 Elections - Page 458







Post#11426 at 10-25-2012 09:22 PM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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The president tells Rolling Stone that Paul Ryan should have left Ayn Rand in high school

Q: Have you ever read Ayn Rand?

Obama: Sure.

Q: What do you think Paul Ryan's obsession with her work would mean if he were vice president?

Obama: Well, you'd have to ask Paul Ryan what that means to him. Ayn Rand is one of those things that a lot of us, when we were 17 or 18 and feeling misunderstood, we'd pick up. Then, as we get older, we realize that a world in which we're only thinking about ourselves and not thinking about anybody else, in which we're considering the entire project of developing ourselves as more important than our relationships to other people and making sure that everybody else has opportunity – that that's a pretty narrow vision. It's not one that, I think, describes what's best in America. Unfortunately, it does seem as if sometimes that vision of a "you're on your own" society has consumed a big chunk of the Republican Party
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism







Post#11427 at 10-25-2012 09:32 PM by Copperfield [at joined Feb 2010 #posts 2,244]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
But those caucus and primary voters are conditioned by pro-Establishment framing to vote for Establishment candidates.
It's not just that. Just think of the money each party spends raising, grooming and supporting its own. Who is acceptable and who can run are careful party decisions. You can't just walk into the local party office of your choice and tell them you are going to run for a federal office, even if you are filthy rich (just ask Colbert). Those folks who wind up on the primary ballots aren't just folks off the streets. These are dues paying members who owe and are owed favors from the party oligarchs.
Last edited by Copperfield; 10-25-2012 at 09:34 PM.







Post#11428 at 10-25-2012 10:10 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
How many dollars?
well, there's lazy and then there's also misdirected.

But sure, I'll pay for some pics that authenticate the whole save-the-cow thingee.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11429 at 10-25-2012 10:26 PM by Gianthogweed [at joined Apr 2012 #posts 590]
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It's not a surprise that Obama doesn't get Rand.
'79 Xer, INTP







Post#11430 at 10-25-2012 10:29 PM by Earl and Mooch [at Delaware - we pave paradise and put up parking lots joined Sep 2002 #posts 2,106]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I remember Huntsman from one of the primary debates.
He stood out as actually having a functional brain.

(IOW, good choice)
I wonder if it's something subliminal that the actor who's playing Mitt Romney on Saturday Night Live looks more like Jon Huntsman (at least to my sister-in-law and me).
"My generation, we were the generation that was going to change the world: somehow we were going to make it a little less lonely, a little less hungry, a little more just place. But it seems that when that promise slipped through our hands we didn´t replace it with nothing but lost faith."

Bruce Springsteen, 1987
http://brucebase.wikispaces.com/1987...+YORK+CITY,+NY







Post#11431 at 10-25-2012 10:29 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Drone of silence: the national-security policy that Obama and Romney won’t debate

Sorry Eric, but this is why your scare tactics don't work. It already isn't America anymore.
Here's what you and Justin, maybe others, simply don't get -

According to the ABC News/Washington Post survey released Wednesday, 83 percent of those polled say they approve of the president’s use of unmanned drone aircraft against the terror suspects. Two out of three respondents said they favor the use of the drones specifically against Americans in other countries who are terror suspects – potentially touchier legal territory.

Seventy percent said they approve of President Obama’s decision to keep open the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba detention center. In 2009, Mr. Obama signed an order temporarily suspending military court proceedings at the base and promising its closure. But the U.S. Senate blocked funds needed for the transfer of prisoners from the facility. U.S. officials have since said prospects for closing the prison are small, given broad opposition in Congress to such a move.

In addition, 78 percent of the poll’s respondents said they support Mr. Obama’s plans to draw down troops in Afghanistan. Among Democrats, 93 percent said they want to see the troops leave Afghanistan, compared to 64 percent of Republicans.
From the very start, America has been about what the majority of voters want.

I have no problem with people taking opposing views of the majority; I've done that more than a few times in my life.

And I certainly have no problem with changing the minds of the majority of voters; it certainly was done with the Viet Nam war.

What I have a problem with is the sophomoric simplicity that its only because a relatively few elites are responsible. Or that there is no discernment between those that lead you further into a questionable policy and those that lead you away from one.

The reason? With that as your basic operating assumptions, you don't have a chance in hell of ever changing the situation.

Maybe it takes having lived through the late 60s as a young adult caught up in a lot of shit on both sides to understand that.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11432 at 10-25-2012 10:45 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Green View Post
You don't quite have the fighters scoped out correctly. Odin does not make overly-long posts!
No, he doesn't, that part of the description was not about him.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#11433 at 10-25-2012 10:53 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
OMG, I was laughing so hard reading this I think I scared the neighbors, LOL!!!
Glad you got the joke.

What such a fight might look like:



~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#11434 at 10-25-2012 11:03 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by princeofcats67 View Post
Bottom Line: My $$$'s on Young-Odin.

Prince

PS: Gen-Yers: It's not what I know about them that gives me pause; It's what I don't know!
Yes, be afraid, be very afraid of them. From my experience you have good cause to pause in general, though it depends upon the individual Yer--some are particular exceptions.

Drive by:



~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#11435 at 10-25-2012 11:07 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Deb C View Post
While the rape issue is important, so are the drones that kill innocent people. Not to mention NDAA that Obama put into affect. Now even a journalist who is interviewing a suspect can be held indefinitely. His kill list, where he sees anyone 15 or older in the area of a terrorist, is considered a militant. Even innocent people cannot go pick up the remains of their loved ones because of the danger of being considered a terrorist.

There are numerous crucial issues to be addressed that aren't even in our main stream news. Murder isn't even addressed if it's not within our borders.

Just a couple of issues, among many issues, that few on the Left want to see:

Election Day is around the corner. We can't be certain who will win, but we do know that austerity measures are comingwhether President Obama is re-elected or whether Governor Romney wins. As noted economist Dean Baker tells us, Obama said in the first debate that his position on Social Security is not much different from Romney who is proposing large cuts.


Repeat:

“A recent Washington Post article contains an unsettling confirmation of what many of us have feared for years; the United States is establishing state-sponsored murder as a permanent condition of foreign policy.
“Three hundred fifty drone strikes by the U.S. have killed as many as 3,378 people including as many as 885 civilians, including women and children. Our drone strikes create sympathy for our enemies among the populations we bomb. Numerous academic reports have detailed that our policies are counterproductive and lead to increased radicalization.
“Yet, according to The Washington Post “targeted killing is now so routine that the Obama administration has spent much of the past year codifying and streamlining the process that sustains it.”
“According to these officials, the government expects to keep adding names to the kill list, now called a ‘disposition matrix.’ The Kill Matrix will continue at least another decade. The institutionalization of the kill/capture list should concern us all. This program has been created and expanded absent any oversight from Congress. With the Kill Matrix the ultimate decision to kill rests in the hands of a single individual: the President of the United States.
“Let’s take a moment to reflect. Targeted killing under international law is legal only under very narrow circumstances. Significant questions remain as to whether or not the U.S. is conducting these strikes in accordance with the law. Thus far, the evidence says otherwise. We have killed thousands of people. We have evidence that this policy creates new U.S. enemies, and our government wants to make this program permanent. We continue to kill ‘top leaders.’ How many times have we killed ‘Al Qaeda’s number 2?’ Will we keep killing until everyone who disagrees with us is dead?
“This short-sighted policy has been likened to mowing the grass. As soon as you stop cutting the grass down, it comes right back. Nations aren’t made of grass. They are made of people. Innocent civilians are being killed. We are not solving our problems or making the world safer. We are simply staining our own global image, undermining our ethical place to lead and descending into moral depravity.”

The Kill Matrix
***
www.washingtonpost.com
Tue Oct 23 2012

Over the past few years, the Obama administration has institutionalized the use of armed drones and developed a counterterrorism infrastructure capable of sustaining a seemingly permanent war.
Here's a link to a group, New American Foundation, that seems to be fairly objective on most issues with a board that looks fairly bipartisan -

http://counterterrorism.newamerica.net/drones

The Year of the Drone
What they show is both the number of drone strikes and civilian casualties have come down considerable in the last two years. Just my own sense of how often I see reports on strikes seems to confirm this; I pay pretty close attention because of personal reasons.

The problem in understanding the benefit/cost of this is in relative to what? The speculative counter factual. If you knew for certain the trade-off was another invasion by us, this time Pakistan, with boots on the ground and the entire horror of what the Powell Doctrine means for the 'other guy', you're basically trading off a few hundred for 100s of thousands. Then if you take into account the nukes winding up in the wrong hands, you are trading off the few hundred for 10s of millions of immediate death and cancer/mutation rate increases for not only millions more of humans but for vast ecosystems.

I'm sorry, but I don't dwell in magic pony land to believe that a majority of the US population has ever been pacifist enough or isolationist enough to just walk away from this. You spend your time complaining about the folks doing the 10x 'evil' while I'll applaud them for keeping the 100000000x evil folks, from both sides, getting what they really want.

Also, frankly, I just don't believe a guy like Obama is going to pursue the 10x for a second longer than he has to. The blood will cool at some point, it already significantly has - even Romney is on board with our Afghan pullout.

And, most important, what's the alternative, other than the empty bliss of magic pony land?
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11436 at 10-25-2012 11:07 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Ditto. But who could we get to bet on playdude?
And I guess since we're betting, Chas will have to judge solo.
Just make sure I'm supplied well, oh wait, I see M&L has already brought the supplies, Great!

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#11437 at 10-25-2012 11:08 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
For those who didn't watch the whole video, all four of the "third party" candidates said that they would have vetoed NDAA.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11438 at 10-25-2012 11:08 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Odin View Post
But those caucus and primary voters are conditioned by pro-Establishment framing to vote for Establishment candidates.
And, of course, the Establishment is 85% of voters.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11439 at 10-25-2012 11:10 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Now THAT was an excellent post! Thanks!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11440 at 10-25-2012 11:11 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Gianthogweed View Post
It's not a surprise that Obama doesn't get Rand.
And it's not a surprise that you think you did.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11441 at 10-25-2012 11:18 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by JohnMc82 View Post
I've come to peace with this a little more... thank math.
This guy? Math fab Mathonwy

The choice is to

A) Pick a lesser of two evils
B) Go all in on a third party that can get big enough to replace one of the others (this also involves congressional races and destroying one of the established parties)
C) ... run away?
D) Vote for Cthulu!




If you have a smile, I've done my job. Because turning to the option of running away, is just depressing. And friends don't let friends get depressed.



~Chas'88
Last edited by Chas'88; 10-25-2012 at 11:23 PM.
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#11442 at 10-25-2012 11:19 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I ask again ... how many dollars?
I'll take it in the form of a donation to the charity of my choice, since you don't like to reveal your secret identity ((*cough* Charlie Sheen))
Let's see just an example of what you're offering, then we can negotiate.

My taste do run along that of Charlie - just about anything is goodtogo.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11443 at 10-25-2012 11:24 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I dunno, I have a feeling that he's going to chicken-hawk-out of both the fight with Odin and the dollars-to-donuts bet.
First, I don't really fight here; I just take note of idiocy. Odin doesn't really display much of that except when he attempts to come to the defense of others who do.

Second, I'm still waiting for that little taste of what you got to offer, Krispy Kreem.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11444 at 10-25-2012 11:29 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
I dunno, I have a feeling that he's going to chicken-hawk-out of both the fight with Odin and the dollars-to-donuts bet.
Well, he is a Democratic Boomer, and it's the Republican Boomers who stick to their war games plans. Seriously, when they get into the Nursing Home--I mean Communities for the Young at Heart--I mean Individual Living Quarters for the Young at Heart, the Red Boomers can all get together and play a gigantic game of Risk every day, and the Blue Boomers can have arts and crafts time and create protest signs so they can protest the war games.

^^^Not original material, borrowed from a friend.

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#11445 at 10-25-2012 11:29 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Words from the wise

Good timing -

http://robertreich.org/post/34302125733

If You Succumb to Cynicism, The Regressives Win it All
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2012

This is for those of you who consider yourself to be progressive but have given up on politics because it seems rotten to the core. You may prefer Obama to Romney but don’t think there’s a huge difference between the two, so you may not even vote.

Your cynicism is understandable. But cynicism is a self-fulfilling prophesy. If you succumb to it, the regressives who want to take this nation back to the 19th century win it all.

The Koch brothers, Karl Rove, the rabid Republican right, CEOs and Wall Street titans who want to entrench their privileges and tax advantages – all of them would like nothing better than for every progressive in America to throw in the towel.

Then America is entirely theirs.

The alternative to cynicism is to become more involved in politics. Help create a progressive force in this nation that grows into a movement that can’t be stopped.

We almost had it last year in the Occupy movement. We had the arguments and the energy. What we lacked was organization and discipline.

I’ve spent years in Washington and I know nothing good happens there unless good people outside Washington are organized and mobilized to put pressure on Washington to make it happen.

This isn’t new. In the election of 1936, a constituent approached FDR with a list of things she wanted him to do if reelected. “Ma’am,” he said, “I’d like to do all those things. But if I’m reelected, you must make me.”

We must make them.

I suggest a two-step plan.

Step one: Vote for Barack Obama for President and vote for every Democratic senator and representative in Congress. Get off your ass and make sure your friends and relatives do the same.

Step two: Starting Election Day, regardless of who’s elected, commit at least three hours every week to political organizing and mobilizing. Connect with other progressives in your city and state. Help find and recruit new progressive candidates to run against Republicans in swing states, and against conservative Democrats. Support the members of the progressive caucus in Congress. Raise money. Raise a ruckus.

Make it our goal to reverse Citizens United, even if it takes a constitutional amendment. And have public financing of elections (including requiring the media to provide free political advertising as part of their commitment to public service).

Also break up the biggest banks and resurrect the Glass-Steagall Act.

Put a 2 percent surtax on wealth in excess of $3 million. And a one-tenth of 1 percent transaction tax on every financial transaction. And restore top tax rates to what they were before Ronald Reagan became president.

Use half this revenue to pay down the national debt and half to make sure every American has a world-class education.

Put a tax on carbon, and use the revenues to reduce or replace payroll taxes.

Have a single-payer health-care system that delivers care at far less cost than our current balkonized and inefficient one.

And much else.

You say it can’t happen — the system is too rotten.

It won’t happen if you wallow in the comfort of your cynicism. But it will happen if you and others like you get fired up.

We’ve done it before.

I remember when progressives joined with African-Americans to get enacted the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts. I remember when progressives stopped the Vietnam War. When women finally got freedom of choice over their own bodies. When the Environmental Protection Act became law.

Who would have imagined two decades ago that America would elect an African-American as President of the United States? Who would have supposed gays and lesbians would begin to achieve equal marriage rights?

Of course we can take America back.

Stop complaining and start organizing.

And by all means, vote.
Bottom line, don't be snookered by those who would like nothing more than you dwelling in magic pony land.
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11446 at 10-25-2012 11:30 PM by playwrite [at NYC joined Jul 2005 #posts 10,443]
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Quote Originally Posted by Chas'88 View Post
Well, he is a Democratic Boomer, and it's the Republican Boomers who stick to their war games plans. Seriously, when they get into the Nursing Home--I mean Communities for the Young at Heart--I mean Individual Living Quarters for the Young at Heart, the Red Boomers can all get together and play a gigantic game of Risk every day, and the Blue Boomers can have arts and crafts time and create protest signs so they can protest the war games.

^^^Not original material, borrowed from a friend.

~Chas'88
Not me; I'll be in the dirty old man corner with my Rani pics!
"The Devil enters the prompter's box and the play is ready to start" - R. Service

“It’s not tax money. The banks have accounts with the Fed … so, to lend to a bank, we simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account that they have with the Fed. It’s much more akin to printing money.” - B.Bernanke


"Keep your filthy hands off my guns while I decide what you can & can't do with your uterus" - Sarah Silverman

If you meet a magic pony on the road, kill it. - Playwrite







Post#11447 at 10-25-2012 11:42 PM by Chas'88 [at In between Pennsylvania & Pennsyltucky joined Nov 2008 #posts 9,432]
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10-25-2012, 11:42 PM #11447
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Quote Originally Posted by playwrite View Post
Good timing -

http://robertreich.org/post/34302125733



Bottom line, don't be snookered by those who would like nothing more than you dwelling in magic pony land.
I'm sorry, but I'm a child of the 80s, and so my mind could only go to one place.

The Nothing

~Chas'88
"There have always been people who say: "The war will be over someday." I say there's no guarantee the war will ever be over. Naturally a brief intermission is conceivable. Maybe the war needs a breather, a war can even break its neck, so to speak. But the kings and emperors, not to mention the pope, will always come to its help in adversity. ON the whole, I'd say this war has very little to worry about, it'll live to a ripe old age."







Post#11448 at 10-26-2012 12:20 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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10-26-2012, 12:20 AM #11448
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Quote Originally Posted by Gianthogweed View Post
It's not a surprise that Obama doesn't get Rand.
Of course not. No intelligent person agrees with Rand.

It's time the Randians were put back on the shelf where they belong. Their 19th century free market ideology is the epitome of slavery and superstition. That anyone in America gives this stuff even a second of consideration, indicates just how low we have fallen. I mean really Gianthogweed. You seem intelligent enough to me. Rand? Come on........

Thanks for posting Reich playdude. I agree with everything he said except the one about payroll taxes (carbon tax yes, but it is temporary). It's too bad folks like Giant live in magic pony land and can't understand what Reich says.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#11449 at 10-26-2012 12:41 AM by Eric the Green [at San Jose CA joined Jul 2001 #posts 22,504]
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10-26-2012, 12:41 AM #11449
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Quote Originally Posted by The Rani View Post
Drone of silence: the national-security policy that Obama and Romney won’t debate

Sorry Eric, but this is why your scare tactics don't work. It already isn't America anymore.
I hate to break it to you Rani, but it hasn't been for some time. The military industrial complex has run it since WWII.

As playwrite pointed out, the American people support drone strikes. The president can only do so much which the voters would not support. Big money also has had its say in his administration. Only the people expressing their views can counteract the establishment, no matter who is elected. If we support the establishment by not speaking out, or by voting Republican, we ARE the establishment.

A president has to decide what to do about threats to our safety. Al Qaida is a threat. I can't say I support the war. But something needed to be done. And I understand that a public that is scared, will back him when he takes action against those who threaten them. Deaths of innocents don't necessarily enter their minds.

You aren't scared, but I am. A Romney win would lead us down the wrong path much further, while an Obama win at least holds out some hope. Noone else has taken those questionnaires I posted. Take them and see who you agree with. If there's a big difference in your result between Obama and Romney, you can't really say there's no difference. For people who are progressive, there is a difference. A third party vote is entirely legit. A Romney vote is not. My results from the questionnaire told me that, from my point of view, even Goode is better than Romney.

Imagine a Romney Supreme Court. You can certainly kiss our civil rights goodbye. Big business will be able to do anything it wants to us. Citizens United will be the law and nothing will overturn it.

We ought to be able to make progress in our country, and that includes getting some progressive policies in our government. If we can't do that, we decline and fall; it's that simple. Is that what people want? Just letting business do what it wants, does not create jobs, and does not give us the society and the planet that we want. Rand, Reagan and Romney are not the way. The things Reich talks about; that is the way.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive,

Eric A. Meece







Post#11450 at 10-26-2012 08:16 AM by Odin [at Moorhead, MN, USA joined Sep 2006 #posts 14,442]
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10-26-2012, 08:16 AM #11450
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Quote Originally Posted by Gianthogweed View Post
It's not a surprise that Obama doesn't get Rand.
She was a psychopath who idolized a serial killer, what's hard to understand? I wish all the rich f*cks would "go Galt", I'll laugh as they all starve to death because they are so used to having their peons do everything for them.
To recommend thrift to the poor is both grotesque and insulting. It is like advising a man who is starving to eat less.

-Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man under Socialism
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