Originally Posted by Aramea

So, what is she supposed to do, punch him in the face?

I do understand that does work in magic pony land.... but, you and I and a few others here will never know for sure due to our lack of residency.

Originally Posted by playwrite

Drone strikes are way down and coming down more

would like some evidence for this. linky link? please?

:: picture big kitty eyes ::

Originally Posted by Odin

Heh, I have read that during the American Revolution a prominent Tory New Englander was recorded as saying "I would rather have one tyrant 1000 miles away over 1000 tyrants not a mile away!"

Nice find.

Much depends on that one tyrant. However, the Founding Fathers knew that and gave us not only the ability to throw a bad one out every 2 to 4 years but the famous checks and balances.

After 225 plus years, people have just lost sight, and take for granted, something that is unique and relatively recent in human history. Taking it for granted seems to go hand-in-hand with being too cowardly to leave to where they consider it better.

Originally Posted by Odin

Berg's reputation as a slum lord came back and bit him in the rear.

If that was it, you would think there would be no GOP nationally.

I guess North Dakotans are less fooled?

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Restoring power is a slow tedious process, made worse by the stupidity of not properly maintaining the grid and distribution systems. The entire East Coast needs to rework their distribution, and it needs to go underground.

In '85, we were without power from Gloria for about a week and a half ... and others were still out after we got ours back. Gloria was big storm, but it hit Long Island, not Manhattan. The ditribuiotn is still just as bad as then, only 30 years older.

Last Tuesday, there were 8.5 million without power. By Saturday, it was under 2 million. In a week, we were under 1 million. Incredible actually.

They're now done to individual blocks and houses. And in some areas, those houses and entire blocks are missing or condemned. Its going to take weeks if not months for some of these areas.

The people who suggest some failing by govt on this tend to be those far away from the situation and completely clueless.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Playdude doesn't come across as a real worlder to me. He comes across as a lead actor in the magic pony show. Hint: The people who piss you and him off the most are the real worlders.

This coming from you is one of the biggest confirmation that bouncer and I ARE in the real world.

Others should take note - you're "certifiable" if KIA says your "a-okay"

Originally Posted by the bouncer

or magic froggy land, for that matter.

sheesh, using kermit against the guy who actually *likes* pbs. ::shivers::



hope you do acknowledge that drone attacks resulting in civilian deaths do suck. and suck mightily. on their own terms. (iranian nukes notwithstanding)

I agree, they do suck.

It's always a relative thing, however. I don't like people plotting against the US; I live in Manhattan so it often gets personal - something most Americans likely don't face except perhaps from our own homegrown nut cases. Also, I have a kid who is USMC - of course, just itching to go where the drones go - I prefer that not happen. I know - selfish of me.

Frankly, I find it appalling that people so ready to condemn Obama over drone strikes never give any space in their arguments addressing those two personal issues. I see them as extremely lazy in not taking on these real reasons for the drone strikes - too easy for them to instead just caulk it up to warmongering without any discernment between actual individuals or party ideology. How nice for them; they can do it with a laptop while sitting propped up in bed in po-dunk nowhere, maybe with a Bon-Bon or two.

What's funny is that they really think they are or can make a difference with their extreme laziness. In short, magic pony land residents.

Originally Posted by the bouncer

yeah, i don't have a lot of tolerance for militant stupidity and ignorance.

which is why it was *great* to see it get taken down several pegs last night.

you were pretty funny with your threat not to expand your business. you epitomize the cliche "cutting off your nose to spite your face."

honest to god, making business decisions based on whether or not your guy won.

dumb.

Yeah, I don't have much tolerence for that stuff either. Good thing for both of us that this isn't the real world because there would be an issue that wouldn't be politically addressed or resolved. Real worlders aren't subject to political rules. We either agree or disagree and leave it at that understanding the consequences that can come with pushing it further. Making business decissions based on a feel/sense relating to economic climate and environment is actually smart. Business isn't going to get much better than it is and I think committing capital now would be very dumb. I didn't propose a threat. I notified of my intent and decission to remain small and more profitable based on the result of last nights election. You're giving Obama to much credit, he's not worth cutting off my own nose to spite. I place more value on my nose and face than him or his victory. Did the market go up or down today?

Originally Posted by playwrite

I agree, they do suck.

It's always a relative thing, however. I don't like people plotting against the US; I live in Manhattan so it often gets personal - something most Americans likely don't face except perhaps from our own homegrown nut cases. Also, I have a kid who is USMC - of course, just itching to go where the drones go - I prefer that not happen. I know - selfish of me.

Frankly, I find it appalling that people so ready to condemn Obama over drone strikes never give any space in their arguments addressing those two personal issues. I see them as extremely lazy in not taking on these real reasons for the drone strikes - too easy for them to instead just caulk it up to warmongering without any discernment between actual individuals or party ideology. How nice for them; they can do it with a laptop while sitting propped up in bed in po-dunk nowhere, maybe with a Bon-Bon or two.

What's funny is that they really think they are or can make a difference with their extreme laziness. In short, magic pony land residents.

Aren't you sitting on your ass in front of a computer, typing nasty comments that are directed at a harmless woman performing an act of extreme laziness as well?

Originally Posted by Seattleblue

"The delusion that we can do without government..."

But isn't that a misrepresentation of the competing positions in the debate? This notion that anyone who does not support a massive government that dictates everything to the people is simply an anarchist is quite simply a strawman. The issue is the role of the federal government, as we all know.

Many people labor under the delusion that the federal government is actually out doing things that benefit them. People give the federal government (specifically) credit for all sorts of things without even thinking about it. This false belief is the result of many decades of politicking, and people believe these things without a shred of evidence.

The delusion is that the federal government has NOT accomplished things. Xers labor under this delusion more than others. Those who are under this delusion simply don't know any history from before their own childhood. They have swallowed 32 years of vicious and demonic propaganda put out by greedy politicians and their rich supporters who benefit from a government that can no longer protect the people from them. Why do YOU swallow it? Wake up Seattleblue.

The more people see how useless the federal government is when they need it most, the more they will start questioning their previous beliefs. There is no safety net, and this is an inescapable fact. Those who manage to eke out an existence on what remains of the safety net will be the first ones to turn on the concept of the government provider as soon as the well finally runs dry.

Those who are (or have their family and friends) saved by the safety net are grateful for it, and that's why they vote to keep it.

The main delusion that people have these days is that money doesn't matter when it comes to government. The notion that endless printing of money can be controlled and handled to avoid disaster is laughable on its face. Everyone in politics seems to expect that the trillion dollar deficits will simply dry up at some point, like they did for Clinton. What if they don't?

They dried up for Clinton because Clinton could do "arithmetic." It's quite simple. If the government spends money, it needs to bring in revenue. In the later Obama era, QE was the only remedy available because fiscal stimulus and tax sanity were blocked by congress. The people should have held congress accountable for the endless, senseless blocking. They did not, and that's too bad. It just puts off resolution of the stalemate. But that's what I predicted.

Sooner or later this money will enter the economy. It will not be sopped up by a scheme from the Federal Reserve, because there is no mechanism to 'unwind' money from the other end. Contrary to belief in some quarters, investors are not clamoring for US Treasuries- the majority of deficit spending is financed purely by printing money at this point. This is but one of the disasters that will explode sooner or later.

It could explode if we don't get off this tax-cut mania before the economy improves and interest rates rise.

Government should only do those things that people cannot do themselves and- here's the key part- only with the consent of the individual in question. Government that exceeds this mandate will eventually be put in check. Right now people are scared and desperate, and willing to overlook a lot of things because they have no more hope. But eventually, when government begins breaking its promises left and right, that will change and people will not like being pushed around. People will feel betrayed and they will take it out on the promise breakers. Who else could be at fault?

Much as the Great Depression saw the beginning of big government due to assumed failure of the previous system, this era will see the end of government as panacea, due to the eventual failure of the technocratic fantasy that we have been living in this past age.

I hope your delusion does not win out. The previous system WAS a failure, not an "assumed" failure. We are not "individuals." Your delusion has lost a little ground in this election. That's good. It needs to lose more. We can't move forward by junking the progress of the past and going back to the system it was meant to cure in the first place. We need to keep the best of the older liberal system, and move forward into greenpeace. But it will depend on liberal government performing well, if it's ever given a chance. It has not been given a chance since the 1960s.

Originally Posted by Copperfield

Bet that would get his attention a lot faster than being a member of code pink.

Code Pink has a way of successfully getting in peoples' faces, more or less, even if they don't punch anybody.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Some people are already figuring that one out. It's going to be a tough winter.

Cold brings fresh misery to Sandy victims, many still without power

Seattleblue thinks they will "start" questioning their "previous beliefs" that government works. As if we haven't had 32 years and more of that "questioning" ad nauseum ad nauseum ad nauseum................. it was ridiculous at the beginning and it is still ridiculous.

Originally Posted by The Rani

Gary Johnson runs most successful Libertarian campaign in party’s history

He is the first such candidate to run who had any qualification for the job in terms of government experience. Voters usually respect that. And he has a great score on my astrological profile.

Originally Posted by playwrite

If that was it, you would think there would be no GOP nationally.

I guess North Dakotans are less fooled?

Well at least the bare majority of Americans were not fooled enough to elect a corporate raider as their president.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The delusion is that the federal government has NOT accomplished things. Xers labor under this delusion more than others. Those who are under this delusion simply don't know any history from before their own childhood. They have swallowed 32 years of vicious and demonic propaganda put out by greedy politicians and their rich supporters who benefit from a government that can no longer protect the people from them. Why do YOU swallow it? Wake up Seattleblue.

What has government done/accomplished for me? Did government do all the work in school for me? Did government go to work and achieve the levels of success for me? Did government create the jobs, go to the interviews and get the jobs for me? Did government get out of bed, eat breakfast, walk through the frigid cold and arrive at school on time for me? Did government create a business for me too? Did government provide the healthcare for the employees for me?

The "problem" with people who reside in states like North Dakota is because they don't see poverty first-hand on any significant scale, it is difficult for them to embrace a full-scale war on poverty; indeed, North Dakota is one of the very few places in the US where the "Community Chest" approach in these matters is actually adequate.

He who is warm thinks all are so.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

What has government done/accomplished for me? Did government do all the work in school for me?

No, but unless you attended private school, government provided the building/teachers/books.

Did government go to work and achieve the levels of success for me?

No, but it did provide the roads/buses/trains you took to work.

Did government create the jobs, go to the interviews and get the jobs for me?

No, but government provided police and fire protection that made setting up shop anywhere in the US possible. I rather doubt too many businesses set up shop where this stuff is absent, say Somalia.

Did government get out of bed, eat breakfast, walk through the frigid cold and arrive at school on time for me? Did government create a business for me too? Did government provide the healthcare for the employees for me?

See above. Hospitals of any quality can't exist without roads, police/fire protection. A lot of strung out dope addicts would raid the morphine without the cops. I'd also like Amtrack to set up shop here. We have no air or bus service here. If you want to leave town, you must take a car.

With that said there are things government should get out of. Agriculture, houses, and assorted bailouts are at the top of my list. Believe me, I think FHA,HUD,Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac all do housing shit and all should be nuked.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Well at least the bare majority of Americans were not fooled enough to elect a corporate raider as their president.

Wow. Uh... This is Rags and I approve of this message.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

He is the first such candidate to run who had any qualification for the job in terms of government experience. Voters usually respect that. And he has a great score on my astrological profile.

Does Eric Meece have a great score on his own astrological profile? How about JPT? Odin? POC? Seatleblue? I think I got the whole ideological spectrum here.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

Does Eric Meece have a great score on his own astrological profile? How about JPT? Odin? POC? Seatleblue? I think I got the whole ideological spectrum here.

I have a lousy score. I would not make it as a candidate for president. I know you like to reveal your chart for all to see, but I really only want to analyze actual candidates, thank you very much.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

<snip> ...value on my nose and face than him or his victory. Did the market go up or down today?

It went down. JPT got me all excited when he said it crashed 3000 points today as per prior post. That post got me to thinking the stock market bubble popped and sanity had returned to Wall $treet. But alas, Reuters said it was only a 300+ drop. Not too exciting, IMHO.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I have a lousy score. I would not make it as a candidate for president. I know you like to reveal your chart for all to see, but I really only want to analyze actual candidates, thank you very much.

Huh? I didn't even stick my name in the list. Supervising Millies at work is hard enough, thank you very much. Leading them in some public office would be way too much. I just provided a set of posters who span the political spectrum to keep things objective.

Originally Posted by '58 Flat

The "problem" with people who reside in states like North Dakota is because they don't see poverty first-hand on any significant scale, it is difficult for them to embrace a full-scale war on poverty; indeed, North Dakota is one of the very few places in the US where the "Community Chest" approach in these matters is actually adequate.

He who is warm thinks all are so.

True, but it doesn't explain why people in some states like North Dakota vote for Senators who vote for wars on poverty, but not for presidents who propose wars on poverty.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

True, but it doesn't explain by people in some states like North Dakota vote for Senators who vote for wars on poverty, but not for presidents who propose wars on poverty.

But in the case of farm states like North Dakota it is because these Senators are way into farm subsidies!

Originally Posted by Deb C

Well maybe you support this too.

Obama Bombs Yemen Hours After Winning Reelection
John Glaser, November 07, 2012

Not even a full day had passed before newly reelected President Obama ordered another drone strike in Yemen.

I'm not a proponent of these either, but this is a similar problem to the Barbary priates issue Thomas Jefferson had to resolve. Sworn enemies that hide in lawless lands will do whatever they can to harm us, assuming we are the target of their wrath. Allowing safe havens for them, makes the job of defending against them nearly impossible. This is one of the prime attributes of asymetrical warfare. Now, you could argue that we should turn the other cheek, but they are unlikely to see this a courage. In fact. they will consider that stupidity, and take full advantage.

In case you missed it, prior to using these tactics, and that's what they are, we had 9/11 and the Madrid train bombing, not to mention the resort boming in Bali and countless smaller attacks. A lot of people died who had nothing whatsoever to do with whatever issue the terrorists were trying to resolve (or foment). Are those deaths less horriific? Should we play nice and wait for more?