Originally Posted by playwrite

Nice find.

Much depends on that one tyrant. However, the Founding Fathers knew that and gave us not only the ability to throw a bad one out every 2 to 4 years but the famous checks and balances.

After 225 plus years, people have just lost sight, and take for granted, something that is unique and relatively recent in human history. Taking it for granted seems to go hand-in-hand with being too cowardly to leave to where they consider it better.

But let's also acknowledge that we were an experiment in self rule. There have been numerous alterntives since we wrote our Constitution that fixed some things we failed to address. We made amending the thing far too hard, though, in the agricultural age, amending it seemed much less urgent. Builidng a governement structure that is almost unwieldly is another agricultural age "mistake". Now, we have too many powerful entities with vested interests in the current system, so we're stuck.

But all in all, a successful experiement. 225 years is nothing to scoff at. At some point, it will need updating.

Originally Posted by The Rani

If the info in the article is correct, and we are creating more enemies with drones than we are destroying, it's making a larger-scale war more likely in the future.

Well, that's a big "if". We may be making enemies and solidifying friednships, but we'll never be a full party to what goes on. 99% of that is classified by all parties concerned.

Public face is not intended as the policy face. All that gets handled in private.

I'm leaving this in place, even though Rags hit almost every point I made, and a few more to boot.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

What has government done/accomplished for me? Did government do all the work in school for me?

No, it just supplied the schools and teachers.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er ...

Did government go to work and achieve the levels of success for me?

No, it just supplied many of the assets the busines relies on to exist ... like polica and fire protection, roads, etcetra ad nauseum.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er ...

Did government create the jobs, go to the interviews and get the jobs for me?

Maybe they did create the jobs. I don't know where you worked or what you did. The Federal governemet provides roughly 20% of the economic activity in the US, with state ande local providing roughly the same.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er ...

Did government get out of bed, eat breakfast, walk through the frigid cold and arrive at school on time for me?

Wow. You do want a lot from governement.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er ...

Did government create a business for me too?

If you incorporated, government participated. Even if you didn't, the legal system is stil there making it all possible.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er ...

Did government provide the healthcare for the employees for me?

It's on the way.

Originally Posted by Deb C

Not even a full day had passed before newly reelected President Obama ordered another drone strike in Yemen.

He's just giving his people what they asked for -- those 'occasional' murders aren't gong to happen by themselves, you know.

Originally Posted by playwrite

A fifth grader understands that while human death always has elements of tragedy, comparing deaths in the dozens (e.g., drones) to deaths in the millions (i.e., nuclear exchange) is just, well, stupid...

You're right. Even a fifth-grader is able to recognize that there is something wrong with comparing killing one person to killing a thousand person as if it were a matter of mere numbers -- you know, what you keep wanting to do. To you credit, though, not all fifth-graders would be mature enough to recognize that on more than a visceral level. Understanding the fact that a human life is not fungible is something that seems to take a bit more life experience and reflection.

So since even fifth-graders could recognize the fallacy of your argument, I wonder at what level your social development stalled out?

Originally Posted by The Rani

I think playdude types out insults with one hand while rebuilding houses hit by the hurricane with the other hand.

Only when he can keep that other hand free, of course. And on that matter, the residents of the eastern seaboard are certainly very grateful that Rani hasn't posted more pictures recently.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

No, but unless you attended private school, government provided the building/teachers/books.


No, but it did provide the roads/buses/trains you took to work.


No, but government provided police and fire protection that made setting up shop anywhere in the US possible. I rather doubt too many businesses set up shop where this stuff is absent, say Somalia.



See above. Hospitals of any quality can't exist without roads, police/fire protection. A lot of strung out dope addicts would raid the morphine without the cops. I'd also like Amtrack to set up shop here. We have no air or bus service here. If you want to leave town, you must take a car.

With that said there are things government should get out of. Agriculture, houses, and assorted bailouts are at the top of my list. Believe me, I think FHA,HUD,Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac all do housing shit and all should be nuked.

Who provided all of that for me? Was it the government or the people?

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I'm not a proponent of these either, but this is a similar problem to the Barbary priates issue Thomas Jefferson had to resolve. Sworn enemies that hide in lawless lands will do whatever they can to harm us, assuming we are the target of their wrath. Allowing safe havens for them, makes the job of defending against them nearly impossible. This is one of the prime attributes of asymetrical warfare. Now, you could argue that we should turn the other cheek, but they are unlikely to see this a courage. In fact. they will consider that stupidity, and take full advantage.

In case you missed it, prior to using these tactics, and that's what they are, we had 9/11 and the Madrid train bombing, not to mention the resort boming in Bali and countless smaller attacks. A lot of people died who had nothing whatsoever to do with whatever issue the terrorists were trying to resolve (or foment). Are those deaths less horriific? Should we play nice and wait for more?

We need to seriously understand the meaning of BLOWBACK.

Do you not understand that the attacks by terrorists in New York where blow back from our sanctions killing one half million children with our Iraq sanctions? Bin Laden told us that. I am actually surprised that an intelligent man like yourself would believe the propaganda of the Bush administration. But we would rather believe that, as Bush told us, that they hated our freedom. That is pure unadulterated BS.

"The greatest danger emanates from our own government, controlled not by the people but by Wall Street and the Pentagon, the Corporate/Military/Security complex, dictating who is in and who is out, supporting ruthlessness, intervening, and interfering. All those fingerprints and boots make huge dents in the countries whose resources we require to keep us warm in winter, cool in summer, and our cars ready for that next ride to stock up at Wal-Mart, just as they assault here at home, taking, taking, taking our property, our children’s future, and our dignity." ....... Miss Beattie

Truth is we were defeated with a weapon of mass destruction called the Patriot Act?you know, after 9-11, when Congress passed it and G. Bush signed into law the sacrifice of our rights.

More than 6,000 US troops have died in Iraq and Afghanistan, and we’ve killed over a million Iraqi and Afghan civilians under the pretense of multiple pretenses. Trillions of dollars have been spent.

We do know this about his life: He wrote of the humiliation of invasion and occupation and his outrage over the 500,000 Iraqi children who died because of our sanctions. Despising us, he called for the deaths of Americans, including children.

Originally Posted by Ragnarök_62

It went down. JPT got me all excited when he said it crashed 3000 points today as per prior post. That post got me to thinking the stock market bubble popped and sanity had returned to Wall $treet. But alas, Reuters said it was only a 300+ drop. Not too exciting, IMHO.

I agree, 300 pt drops aren't too exciting as far as jobs and the economy are concerned. But yeah, pot is now legal in a few states, gay marriage is now on its way to becoming a common thingy, women will have birth control included in their healthcare policies at no additional cost, climate change is now the big thing that America needs to address and the deadbeats have access to free healthcare. Playdude and I have one thing in common...we don't like sheeple. We only disagee on who the sheeple are and which party represents and attracts them.

Originally Posted by The Rani

I think playdude types out insults with one hand while rebuilding houses hit by the hurricane with the other hand.

I think playdude types with one hand while he's masterbating with the other hand.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Only when he can keep that other hand free, of course. And on that matter, the residents of the eastern seaboard are certainly very grateful that Rani hasn't posted more pictures recently.

There is a strategy of best-use that always applies, even in those trying times.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I'm not a proponent of these either, but this is a similar problem to the Barbary priates issue Thomas Jefferson had to resolve. Sworn enemies that hide in lawless lands will do whatever they can to harm us, assuming we are the target of their wrath. Allowing safe havens for them, makes the job of defending against them nearly impossible. This is one of the prime attributes of asymetrical warfare. Now, you could argue that we should turn the other cheek, but they are unlikely to see this a courage. In fact. they will consider that stupidity, and take full advantage.

In case you missed it, prior to using these tactics, and that's what they are, we had 9/11 and the Madrid train bombing, not to mention the resort boming in Bali and countless smaller attacks. A lot of people died who had nothing whatsoever to do with whatever issue the terrorists were trying to resolve (or foment). Are those deaths less horriific? Should we play nice and wait for more?

excellent, excellent response.

if bush had decided to go after al qaeda this way from the beginning and not wasted our time, lives and squillions of bucks trying to get rid of the taliban and saddam, the whole thing might have been over by now.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Who provided all of that for me? Was it the government or the people?

the government is of, by, and for the people.

good lord. don't they teach civics in school anymore?

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

Who provided all of that for me? Was it the government or the people?

Why make an issue? We have governement "of the people", so the money comes from taxes and the governement handles the project management. Do you want to differentiate further than that? If so, why?

I would actually complain that modern conservatives have lost sight of those tasks, let them languish and now we are behind on everything. That's the fault of "we the people", too.

Originally Posted by Deb C

We need to seriously understand the meaning of BLOWBACK.

Do you not understand that the attacks by terrorists in New York where blow back from our sanctions killing one half million children with our Iraq sanctions? Bin Laden told us that. I am actually surprised that an intelligent man like yourself would believe the propaganda of the Bush administration. But we would rather believe that, as Bush told us, that they hated our freedom. That is pure unadulterated BS.

"The greatest danger emanates from our own government, controlled not by the people but by Wall Street and the Pentagon, the Corporate/Military/Security complex, dictating who is in and who is out, supporting ruthlessness, intervening, and interfering. All those fingerprints and boots make huge dents in the countries whose resources we require to keep us warm in winter, cool in summer, and our cars ready for that next ride to stock up at Wal-Mart, just as they assault here at home, taking, taking, taking our property, our children’s future, and our dignity." ....... Miss Beattie

good god.

lefties.

you can't possibly rationalize that mass murder is justified in some circumstances but not in others.

blowback my ass. it's called finding an excuse to be an asshole.

Originally Posted by the bouncer

the government [claims to be] of, by, and for the people.

I fixed it for you so it's true. You're welcome.

good lord. don't they teach civics in school anymore?

Of course they do. Propagandists gotta propagandize. That's true everywhere.

Originally Posted by playwrite

This coming from you is one of the biggest confirmation that bouncer and I ARE in the real world.

Others should take note - you're "certifiable" if KIA says your "a-okay"

How many Americans associate Manhattan's with the real world? Obama needed a hurricane to teach him something I already new about Americans aka the REAL WORLDERS. In the real world, you're certifiable if a KIA or a Rani says that you're OK. You've never been able to pass the smell and taste test with me.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Propagandists gotta propagandize. That's true everywhere.

and you're a prime example.

do you believe this silliness you post, or is it just for shits and giggles?

either way, it's a waste of my time. you're either a deliberate ignoramus or a clown.

Originally Posted by Classic-X'er

How many Americans associate Manhattan's with the real world?

i know people who live there. it's as real as any city or town in america. people there live, work, die, love, and enjoy themselves just like people everywhere.

Obama needed a hurricane to teach him something I already new about Americans aka the REAL WORLDERS.

what the hell are you talking about? are you saying that the president hadn't dealt with crisis situations before?

what about the mass shootings in arizona and colorado?

are you really that dumb?

Originally Posted by the bouncer

excellent, excellent response.

if bush had decided to go after al qaeda this way from the beginning and not wasted our time, lives and squillions of bucks trying to get rid of the taliban and saddam, the whole thing might have been over by now.

Yeah, "only time will tell" if killing innocents with inaccurate and impersonal assassination tactics will result in blow-back ...

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

Yeah, "only time will tell" if killing innocents with inaccurate and impersonal assassination tactics will result in blow-back ...

Don't forget, "you can't possibly rationalize that mass murder is justified in some circumstances but not in others."

Except, of course, when a member of Your Team does it. Then again, there's no need to rationalize that, either, since the inherent rightness of it is self-evident, except to "a deliberate ignoramus or a clown".

Goodthinkfulness is so very very easy, you see.

Originally Posted by Deb C

We need to seriously understand the meaning of BLOWBACK.

Do you not understand that the attacks by terrorists in New York where blow back from our sanctions killing one half million children with our Iraq sanctions? Bin Laden told us that. I am actually surprised that an intelligent man like yourself would believe the propaganda of the Bush administration. But we would rather believe that, as Bush told us, that they hated our freedom. That is pure unadulterated BS.

"The greatest danger emanates from our own government, controlled not by the people but by Wall Street and the Pentagon, the Corporate/Military/Security complex, dictating who is in and who is out, supporting ruthlessness, intervening, and interfering. All those fingerprints and boots make huge dents in the countries whose resources we require to keep us warm in winter, cool in summer, and our cars ready for that next ride to stock up at Wal-Mart, just as they assault here at home, taking, taking, taking our property, our children’s future, and our dignity." ....... Miss Beattie

Yes, we have real issues with strategic vision. It's pretty warped at the moment, but that is an entirely different issue than how we pursue that vision. Tactics are derived from startegic planning and the needs of the moment. If you want to fix our relationships in the world, go for it. We have plenty that needs fixing. But while you're doing it, could we try not to die?

Originally Posted by The Rani

The interesting thing is that both the Greens and the Libertarians understand this concept, and both have been silenced by the main two parties AND the corporate-controlled media.
An intelligent, critically thinking person might see a connection there.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the corporate media's long history of military contracts. Absolutely nothing!

General Electric (which owns, but is in the process of divesting, 49% of NBC) is a subcontractor for the Tomahawk cruise missile andPatriot II missile both of which were used extensively during the Persian Gulf War.[1] General Electric also manufactures components for the B-2 stealth bomber and B-52 bomber and the E-3 AWACS aircraft which were also used extensively during the conflict. During the first Gulf War, General Electric received $2 billion dollars in defense contracts related to weapons which would be used in Gulf War and the 2003 invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq by Coalition Forces.

It is rather ingenious how they do it, too.

NBC is the standard-bearer, the "trusted name" in news and "America's News Leader." They present the establishment middle in a way that makes the alternatives look insane.

CNBC is for the investors, and MSNBC is being held out as a straw-man of what going "too far left" looks like. Got a legitimate gripe with the government? Watch it pop up on MSNBC and subsequently get torn apart in the rest of the media for being a "far left fantasy."

Pure, absolute, brilliance.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Don't forget, "you can't possibly rationalize that mass murder is justified in some circumstances but not in others."

Except, of course, when a member of Your Team does it. Then again, there's no need to rationalize that, either, since the inherent rightness of it is self-evident, except to "a deliberate ignoramus or a clown".

Goodthinkfulness is so very very easy, you see.

God it is such a relief that the elections are over and Romney won't be president any time soon.

'Cuz now I can get back to bashing Obama... lol

It's a shame how effectively they've reduced the choices to near-clones of each other, but even picking a slightly lesser evil does result in a marginal decrease of total evil.

Originally Posted by JohnMc82

It's a shame how effectively they've reduced the choices to near-clones of each other, but even picking a slightly lesser evil does result in a marginal decrease of total evil.

You're young still, but you strike me as bright. I'm completely certain you'll figure it out in short order.