Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

I have to admit I never found the descriptions of the University Women's Studies programs appealing. Appalling, in some cases ... not being into either Marxism or Victimology. Ditto many of the Spanish courses above the 4th semester fluency level where they involved Latin America.

Sometimes it feels like the groups pushing for respect for "diversity" don't want women or minorities to have diversity in their political opinions.

Originally Posted by ziggyX65

Sometimes it feels like the groups pushing for respect for "diversity" don't want women or minorities to have diversity in their political opinions.

Good point, they themselves see women as stereotypes.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

I breast-fed both my daughters until they sprouted teeth, and highly recommend it for babies, though I would not presume to tell other women what to do. (Though it hurts to keep my mouth shut when I see other people's babies sucking on what the mother fondly calls "juice" and what I know to be fruit punch, i.e. fruit-flavored sugar water.)

Yes, it was those teeth that ended my spell as a lactating mammal.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

Historian Arnold Toynbee considered borderline cases. Is one society a distinctly different civilization from another society?He initially thought of Babylon as a civilization distinct from Mesopotamian civilization. He eventually reconsidered, and described Babylon as a late phase of Mesopotamian civilization. A borderline case, it would seem. A reformed, as opposed to new, civilization?Babylon (as a late phase?) experienced a religious revival. So can a phase theory (of worldviews) become cyclic if a society morphs?

I believe that Byzantium has also been considered a borderline case. Was it a new civilization, or a late development of GraecoRoman culture? Of course, Byzntium's Christianity was quite different from the old pagan pantheon.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

I believe that Byzantium has also been considered a borderline case. Was it a new civilization, or a late development of GraecoRoman culture? Of course, Byzntium's Christianity was quite different from the old pagan pantheon.

Spenger considered it, along with the Sassinid Persian Empire and the Arab Empire part of a "Magian" Civilization that began around the birth of Christ.

The Cultural Creatives...."In The Choice: Evolution or Extinction? and in Evolution: The General Theory, systems theorist Ervin Laszlo argues that successful evolutionary surges to a higher level are likely to come about just after a big, nasty chasm. Both the fossil record and the historical record show long periods of stability that suggest an environment in equilibrium. But then comes a punctuation mark, a sudden shift where the system leaps from one level to another...Big, discontinuous leaps are normal in living systems that have moved far from equilibrium. Any living system - human beings and their societies included - can and does make such leaps."...In every kind of living system, evolutionary leaps are likely to be preceeded by chaotic searches and stumblings into crises that cannot be resolved at the old level. The system, in effect, falls into a hole...there is the possibility that the system will die at the trough of the hole. It may also fall short of finding a stable new level or make incomplete transitions with partial failures."

We are definitely Post-Classic. But is this a period of transition? Or will it prove to be an intermission between two distinct, major eras?

Originally Posted by Odin

Good point, they themselves see women as stereotypes.

Like the idiot who accused Michelle Bachmann of not being "really a woman" or something. Good grief. She may be a lot of things, but that she is a woman is one thing nobody can possibly doubt, unless they define "a real woman" as rigidly as the Victorians did. Sarah Palin, too, BTW - she is not only a real woman, she's a familiar type in the Rocky Mountain West.

Now, I do know some women who are culturally men, whether by inclination or by acculturation. Hey - one theorist is dead sure that we she-geeks have masculine brains! [Repeat that the next time you see me taking any interest in pissing contests, huh?]

Anyway --

Never argue with an ideologue, for you are juicy and easily flamed.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

I believe that Byzantium has also been considered a borderline case. Was it a new civilization, or a late development of GraecoRoman culture? Of course, Byzntium's Christianity was quite different from the old pagan pantheon.

And look at the heirs to Byzantium today,. Not so much Greece, as the Russian Orthodox nations. If not a civilization in their own right, they certainly spawned one!

Originally Posted by TimWalker

The Cultural Creatives...."In The Choice: Evolution or Extinction? and in Evolution: The General Theory, systems theorist Ervin Laszlo argues that successful evolutionary surges to a higher level are likely to come about just after a big, nasty chasm. Both the fossil record and the historical record show long periods of stability that suggest an environment in equilibrium. But then comes a punctuation mark, a sudden shift where the system leaps from one level to another...Big, discontinuous leaps are normal in living systems that have moved far from equilibrium. Any living system - human beings and their societies included - can and does make such leaps."...In every kind of living system, evolutionary leaps are likely to be preceeded by chaotic searches and stumblings into crises that cannot be resolved at the old level. The system, in effect, falls into a hole...there is the possibility that the system will die at the trough of the hole. It may also fall short of finding a stable new level or make incomplete transitions with partial failures."

What sort of evolutionary leaps are they looking at? "Behold - Homo Superior!"? Or "Behold! The New Jerusalem!"? The Who had a line about that ..."we won't be fooled again."

Originally Posted by TimWalker

We are definitely Post-Classic. But is this a period of transition? Or will it prove to be an intermission between two distinct, major eras?

It is both. It is a period of transition between the Modern Era and whatever awaits us on the other side of the transition --- which will indeed by a distinct, major era in its own right. My $0.02, adjusted for the inflation that does not exist except in food and energy...

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

And look at the heirs to Byzantium today,. Not so much Greece, as the Russian Orthodox nations. If not a civilization in their own right, they certainly spawned one!

Sam Huntington considered Russia to be a separate civilization, as did Spengler. Indeed, Spengler claimed that Russia is home to a new-born civilization and culture hidden by a Westernized veneer. Spengler claimed that the writings of Dostoevsky as that of the first stirrings of a new culture, rather than the product of a westernized intelligentsia as he claims Tolstoy was.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

It is both. It is a period of transition between the Modern Era and whatever awaits us on the other side of the transition --- which will indeed by a distinct, major era in its own right. My $0.02, adjusted for the inflation that does not exist except in food and energy...

Are there any clues as to the character of the next Era? Any hints from history?

Originally Posted by Odin

I've never thought of Feminism and Multiculturalism as "Postmodern".

Well, I think they are. Some PoMo stuff is silly, but we have to be careful about throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Originally Posted by Odin

I agree with you, Pat.

As for multiculturalism, I don't that that in itself is "postmodern", it's the notion that all social norms are inherently equal and you are a bigot if you criticize them that is "postmodern".

That's the negative side of PoMo. But keep in mind that it's an evolutionary stage, not an endpoint.

Originally Posted by ziggyX65

Sometimes it feels like the groups pushing for respect for "diversity" don't want women or minorities to have diversity in their political opinions.

True enough, but the flip side is that I've seen today's conservative movement use appeals to identity politics and "we create our own reality" sort of crap. They've adopted some of the techniques that the PoMo Left created.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Now, I do know some women who are culturally men, whether by inclination or by acculturation. Hey - one theorist is dead sure that we she-geeks have masculine brains! [Repeat that the next time you see me taking any interest in pissing contests, huh?]

I've thought that about myself for quite a while.

Originally Posted by Odin

Sam Huntington considered Russia to be a separate civilization, as did Spengler. Indeed, Spengler claimed that Russia is home to a new-born civilization and culture hidden by a Westernized veneer. Spengler claimed that the writings of Dostoevsky as that of the first stirrings of a new culture, rather than the product of a westernized intelligentsia as he claims Tolstoy was.

I just downloaded Spengler. In translation, of course, and probably horribly abridged since it's only one volume. $3 from Amazon.

Originally Posted by TimWalker

Are there any clues as to the character of the next Era? Any hints from history?

Yes. That we'll think it's the most absolutely horrible culture to ever appear on the planet, except for those who are prematurely attuned to it and know how to make it work for them.
"And in this new Cosmopolis, they dismiss our proud Athens as a provincial small town!"
"Great Zeus! Those Roman barbarians are trampling all over us with their brutal big boots, and looting our art and culture, and are carrying philosophers off into slavery to be tutors for their children."
"I told him I was a Roman citizen and this hairy-eared barbarian laughed and threw me in his dungeon."
"Didst tell to me that Bastard is now King of the English? Over my dead body!"
"Christendom is going down into night against all these heresies, and these proud kings who claim their own pet heresy as their national religion, and above all abominations, have made themselves Head of the Church in their own lands!"
"...Dark, satanic mills...."
"Tear down the walls, m-f....!"
"Get used to a lower standard of living? What are you, an unAmerican hater of Our Way of Life?"
......?????

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

I've thought that about myself for quite a while.

Culturally male? I've often played with the notion that male and female geeks are more like each other than they are like the football captain and the prom queen.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Culturally male? I've often played with the notion that male and female geeks are more like each other than they are like the football captain and the prom queen.

I wonder how many women I'm going to see at the comic book store, tonight at 12:01am for the launch of the rebooted DC universe. Probably a lot.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Culturally male? I've often played with the notion that male and female geeks are more like each other than they are like the football captain and the prom queen.

I believe that to be the case. I married a fellow geek.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

True enough, but the flip side is that I've seen today's conservative movement use appeals to identity politics and "we create our own reality" sort of crap. They've adopted some of the techniques that the PoMo Left created.

I have pointed that out myself and it annoys the Hell out of me. I think you can tell when a philosophical position has "gone mainstream" if it is used by Social Conservatives without they themselves realizing it, LOL

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

Well, I think they are. Some PoMo stuff is silly, but we have to be careful about throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Originally Posted by Child of Socrates

That's the negative side of PoMo. But keep in mind that it's an evolutionary stage, not an endpoint.

Oh, of course. I don't think all of PoMo is bad, but I do think most of it is bad philosophy.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Culturally male? I've often played with the notion that male and female geeks are more like each other than they are like the football captain and the prom queen.

Why do you think most of my relationships have been with geeky gals?