Some responses to some earlier posts:

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

More like 460 years from the end of one high point to the beginning of the next one. That would be about 20 turnings or 5 saeculi.

(Grey)
Right. One MegaSaeculum.

That's what I'm talkin' about!

(Tim Walker)
The Cultural Creatives by Paul H. Ray and Sherry Ruth Anderson"...we are left to face...a great transition of the kind that occurs every 500 or 1,000 years....a climate change in our civilization."...we are living in the Between, in the time between eras. The passage between eras may be quite long."

Exactly. But why would Grey reply by quoting my favorite song (Won't Get Fooled Again)?

Why does consensus opinion on this site say we are in a mega-unravelling? Why sell ourselves short?

There is no need to do that. We do have the ability to make this a mega-awakening, or as I would call it, a golden age. We just haven't exercized our ability to do so. But we still CAN; that's the point. We have shown some tendencies in that direction; true, mainly in the last Awakening. But those movements are still around, and new ones have come along too. It is not "ego" as Grey claims to know what our potential is. We have every reason to say we are in a phase of history in which we can create a new world. This year in fact is "the end of the world as we know it."

Cycles of different kinds are similar. But the cycle of civilization is not the same as Strauss and Howe's saeculum, as I pointed out; so calling the phases of the cycle of civilization after the phases of the saeculum is not going to work exactly. But clearly a "mega-unravelling" implies the start of decay. We are not there yet by a long shot. Our cycle of civilization is just over 100 years old, and it lasts 493 years.

I understand that the United States itself is over 200 years old. Let's see now, time goes by so fast these days; that's up to 236 years now; almost half a cycle. So by that measure, the second half should be about to begin.

But I don't look at American history that way. I see it as embedded in Western European and British history. So did the authors of T4T, by beginning the account of our history with English saecula. And they start it where I start the previous cycle of civilization, with the Wars of the Roses that brought forward the Tudor Dynasty. In turn, it was that Dynasty that brought forth Queen Elizabeth, under whose leadership Britannia came to rule the waves. That allowed them soon afterward to begin the colonies in America, which became the United States. As told in my grade-school history class, American history begins with the Renaissance. It was a movement to explore and understand the world and to dominate it, and it led to modern science. The explorers who needed navigation knowledge furthered science's development, which in turn helped the explorers to conquer the world over the following 500-year cycle. It sent Columbus out to discover the New World, and so we name our capital district after him and celebrate his birthday. American history is Western European history since the Renaissance.

That was the previous cycle of civilization. Many great civilizations last 1000 years, and have two halves; consisting of two cycles of civilization. That was true of Rome, for example. The mid-point was the change from Republic to Empire in the age of the caesars. Our mid-point is the 1890s. Without any doubt, the world we live in today was born in that period, from the late 1880s through World War One. That was the start of the progressive era, when our 2 parties became what they are today. That was when more inventions changed the world than in any other time, and when science overturned its old paradigms held for hundreds of years. That was when renaissance art styles ended and the modern ones began. It was when the arms race in Europe started that resulted in World War One, which destroyed Europe's dominance in the world, and when imperialist wars signaled the rise of non-European powers. The most important one of those was the United States, but also included China and Japan. The previous cycle of civilization was the expansion of Western Civilization; in our cycle this ended in the Holocaust, and began an increasingly-democratic world culture guided by the UN. This was the great death and rebirth of recent times. In all ways, the 1890s was the beginning of the current cycle of civilization.

Therefore, we must conclude we are in the phase of the golden age. Golden ages have come about 100 years following the start of every civilization cycle for 5000 years, everywhere on Earth. The only question is, what will we do to realize and act accordingly? Not be cynical by saying we are in a mega-unravelling, for a start!

Ignoring the Astrology, there was an economist in the 2010's who was not Nuriel Roubini who believed he had found a bunch of different cycles, inluding a 250 year revolutionary cycle and a 5,000 civilization cycle, however he wasn't refering to individual cultures, he was refering 5,000 years from Nomadic tribe to city states, then another roughly 5k from city state to Nation state, and so on and so forth. I wouldn't put much stock into it, mostly because observing a pattern of 3 cycles across roughly 5k years could just as easily be coincidence and wishful thinking.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Some responses to some earlier posts:





That's what I'm talkin' about!



Exactly. But why would Grey reply by quoting my favorite song (Won't Get Fooled Again)?

Why does consensus opinion on this site say we are in a mega-unravelling? Why sell ourselves short?

There is no need to do that. We do have the ability to make this a mega-awakening, or as I would call it, a golden age. We just haven't exercized our ability to do so. But we still CAN; that's the point. We have shown some tendencies in that direction; true, mainly in the last Awakening. But those movements are still around, and new ones have come along too. It is not "ego" as Grey claims to know what our potential is. We have every reason to say we are in a phase of history in which we can create a new world. This year in fact is "the end of the world as we know it."

Cycles of different kinds are similar. But the cycle of civilization is not the same as Strauss and Howe's saeculum, as I pointed out; so calling the phases of the cycle of civilization after the phases of the saeculum is not going to work exactly. But clearly a "mega-unravelling" implies the start of decay. We are not there yet by a long shot. Our cycle of civilization is just over 100 years old, and it lasts 493 years.

I understand that the United States itself is over 200 years old. Let's see now, time goes by so fast these days; that's up to 236 years now; almost half a cycle. So by that measure, the second half should be about to begin.

But I don't look at American history that way. I see it as embedded in Western European and British history. So did the authors of T4T, by beginning the account of our history with English saecula. And they start it where I start the previous cycle of civilization, with the Wars of the Roses that brought forward the Tudor Dynasty. In turn, it was that Dynasty that brought forth Queen Elizabeth, under whose leadership Britannia came to rule the waves. That allowed them soon afterward to begin the colonies in America, which became the United States. As told in my grade-school history class, American history begins with the Renaissance. It was a movement to explore and understand the world and to dominate it, and it led to modern science. The explorers who needed navigation knowledge furthered science's development, which in turn helped the explorers to conquer the world over the following 500-year cycle. It sent Columbus out to discover the New World, and so we name our capital district after him and celebrate his birthday. American history is Western European history since the Renaissance.

That was the previous cycle of civilization. Many great civilizations last 1000 years, and have two halves; consisting of two cycles of civilization. That was true of Rome, for example. The mid-point was the change from Republic to Empire in the age of the caesars. Our mid-point is the 1890s. Without any doubt, the world we live in today was born in that period, from the late 1880s through World War One. That was the start of the progressive era, when our 2 parties became what they are today. That was when more inventions changed the world than in any other time, and when science overturned its old paradigms held for hundreds of years. That was when renaissance art styles ended and the modern ones began. It was when the arms race in Europe started that resulted in World War One, which destroyed Europe's dominance in the world, and when imperialist wars signaled the rise of non-European powers. The most important one of those was the United States, but also included China and Japan. The previous cycle of civilization was the expansion of Western Civilization; in our cycle this ended in the Holocaust, and began an increasingly-democratic world culture guided by the UN. This was the great death and rebirth of recent times. In all ways, the 1890s was the beginning of the current cycle of civilization.

Therefore, we must conclude we are in the phase of the golden age. Golden ages have come about 100 years following the start of every civilization cycle for 5000 years, everywhere on Earth. The only question is, what will we do to realize and act accordingly? Not be cynical by saying we are in a mega-unravelling, for a start!

Or maybe your model is wrong and doesn't fit reality.

Eric asked "Exactly. But why would Grey reply by quoting my favorite song (Won't Get Fooled Again)?

I answer - without a reference to which post out of the deep past you refer to, I can't answer why I posted that song. But knowing me, it was almost certainly in reference to the sort of promises that are always just down the road if only ... and the "if only..." is generally something that even Jesus Christ couldn't have pulled off for very long. Such as -

http://vimeo.com/46176474

Which didn't happen in Blake's time nor in any time subsequent.

"Why does consensus opinion on this site say we are in a mega-unravelling? Why sell ourselves short?"

Why do you equate a mega-unraveling with selling ourselves short? Unless your view of human kind is that we were meant to be angels and if we only had enough faith and tried hard, we would be. A mega-unraveling is part of the cycle, all the signs point to it, and the last one was the age of Newton et. al.

"There is no need to do that. We do have the ability to make this a mega-awakening, or as I would call it, a golden age. We just haven't exercized our ability to do so."

Ay, yi, YI! See above! And while you're at it, turn November into May!

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Eric asked "Exactly. But why would Grey reply by quoting my favorite song (Won't Get Fooled Again)?

I answer - without a reference to which post out of the deep past you refer to, I can't answer why I posted that song. But knowing me, it was almost certainly in reference to the sort of promises that are always just down the road if only ... and the "if only..." is generally something that even Jesus Christ couldn't have pulled off for very long. Such as -

http://vimeo.com/46176474

Which didn't happen in Blake's time nor in any time subsequent.

I don't think what I am talking about relates at all to outlandish prophecies of the end of the world or hidden conspiracies about freemasons or lines of royal descent, etc..

As I suggested in the new 2300 thread though, the 2200s (edit: mostly the 2100s actually) could indeed be the time of "building temples," as all such silver and baroque ages have been in past cycles. (that's a long list too: the great temples of Egypt from the New Kingdom, the first Mausoleum, the Pantheon of Rome, Chartres Cathedral, the Taj Mahal, Angkor Wat, and St. Paul's Cathedral in London mentioned in your video, etc.) So who knows, a new temple of Solomon may appear then, but not in our time probably. It is an important occult symbol; Chas is probably familiar with it.

"Why does consensus opinion on this site say we are in a mega-unravelling? Why sell ourselves short?"

Why do you equate a mega-unraveling with selling ourselves short? Unless your view of human kind is that we were meant to be angels and if we only had enough faith and tried hard, we would be. A mega-unraveling is part of the cycle, all the signs point to it, and the last one was the age of Newton et. al.

"There is no need to do that. We do have the ability to make this a mega-awakening, or as I would call it, a golden age. We just haven't exercized our ability to do so."

Ay, yi, YI! See above! And while you're at it, turn November into May!

We are in the Spring, not the Autumn, of our cycle of civilization. It is quite obvious that to think we are in Autumn, when we are actually in Spring, is to deny our abilities and escape from our responsibility to realize our potentials now, and instead wallow in cynicism. All signs DO NOT point to this being like the time of Newton (which WAS indeed the start of "the last one"). If you follow the evidence such as I posted, it should be obvious that we are early in the cycle, not late. We don't have to be angels, any more than people in all the previous golden ages were angels. And we clearly are not angels now, even though we ARE in a golden age. It is just a phase in the cycle too; there's no need to exaggerate what it means. What we make of it, is up to us. But if people refuse to see the evidence, then it is hard to communicate. Notice what "the signs" actually "point to."

If we fail to recognize our place in history, because of cynical opposition to the movements of the new age and the awakening today, then that is the fault of ourselves.

I tend to agree with Pat on this. It looks a lot more like the Mega-Unravleing to me, too.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

I tend to agree with Pat on this. It looks a lot more like the Mega-Unraveling to me, too.

You missed the points I was making then. But that's not unusual around here.

In the other thread in the Future forum, I pointed out the difference between the cycle of civilization and a mega-saeculum. They can't be the same cycle anyway. They are nowhere near equivalent. So it depends which one you think is more significant. I can't go with thinking that a cycle that must begin with the end of the American Revolution can be as significant as one which starts with the cultural revolution of the 1890s/1900s and World War One, or the previous one that started with the Renaissance, etc.. On a world-wide basis, the 500 year cycle is much more significant, and encompasses most civilizations of the world. The mega-saeculum that puts us in a mega-3T would assume that the founding of the United States is the important mega-starting point, and that therefore this mega-cycle has only 100 years left in it, including a mega-crisis ahead. That dark view is unnecessary, and there's no basis for it. But there's also no basis for claiming that the American Revolution is the starting point. It is only a relatively minor event in Western history. Nor do the traits of the supposed mega-saecula match up with the events of those cycles. They don't at all.

It's your choice of what to believe; your paradigm of history. I recommend a view that puts near the beginning, rather than near the end with nothing ahead but increasing darkness.

Question-could the "in between"-the interregnum between ages-feel like an Unraveling?

Originally Posted by TimWalker

Question-could the "in between"-the interregnum between ages-feel like an Unraveling?

I guess it could, since things are still falling apart. In terms of the civilization cycle, it is a crisis developing into a golden age. According to Joel Colton, whom I have quoted in my book and essays, even a golden age can feel like an unraveling, because they are challenging times in which the fundamental roots of our problems need to be faced. But this is supposed to stimulate our creativity, and that creates a golden age.

The question now seems to be, can complacent boomers, cynical Xers and worldly millies in today's America create anything like a golden age? Or do we have to be satisfied with "the sixties" as our golden age?

Since golden ages can continue to appear in the 2nd century of the cycle, as they did in the last one for example (e.g. the Moguls, the Spanish "age of gold," the Elizabethan Age, etc.), then we could still have a golden age in America in the 21st century. It just probably won't be as golden as I thought it might have been, if it had happened in the 1990s and 2000s. Instead, we chose to wallow in scandal and imperialism. Too bad. But 3rd turnings are not the best times in a society to take advantage of our place in the longer cycle of civilization, I guess. Sometimes generational cycles trump the astrological. That's why Gen X turned out the way it did too.

For Pat, another model for the Mega Saeculum, from Northrop Frye:

Frye suggests that there are Five "Modes" that society goes through:

Mythic, Romantic, High Mimetic, Low Mimetic, Ironic

These categorizations are a representation of ethos, or characterization and they relate how the protagonist is portrayed in respect to the rest of humanity and the protagonist's environment. Frye suggests that Classical civilizations progressed historically through the development of these modes, and that something similar happened in Western civilization during medieval and modern times. He speculates that contemporary fiction may be undergoing a return to myth, completing a full circle through the five modes.

Protagonists by Mode:

Mythic - Usually has to deal with God or Gods
Romantic - Noble Heroes who commune with God or the Gods, but aren't Gods themselves
High Mimetic - Aristocracy/"high born" citizens
Low Mimetic - Everyman/"bourgeoisie"
Ironic - Weak, Pitiful, Base, Greedy, usually considered Sub-Human or scum


From a literary standpoint, this is expressed differently through Genres:

Mythic
Tragedy: Ragnarok; Comedy: The Birth of Venus

Romantic
Tragedy: Le Morte D'Arthur; Comedy: The Labors of Hercules

High Mimetic
Tragedy: Othello; Comedy: As You Like It

Low Mimetic
Tragedy: Death of a Salesman; Comedy: Pride & Prejudice

Ironic
Tragedy: The Metamorphosis; Comedy: Rhinoceros


Society by Mode:

Mythic - A divinely inspired society--if not a society in which God/Gods intervene and interact actively with society
Romantic - The gods have retreated to the sky and it is up to chroniclers in a nomadic society to remember the lists of names of the patriarchs, the proverbs, traditions, charms, deeds, etc.
High Mimetic - A society is structured around a "Capital City" and "National" identification
Low Mimetic - A society that is structured around individualism and romanticism
Ironic - A society which is deranged, sadistic, exploits scapegoats, and is an utter wasteland

In the Age of Pisces, (from a Biblical viewpoint):

Mythic: Roman - the time of Jesus and immediately there after when the Christian God would actively intervene and interact with people (Paul, the Apostles)

Romantic - Medieval - the time of "heroes" (aka Saints) who communed with God, who had removed himself from the day to day affairs of society, leaving it up to these Heroes (one of the last being Joan of Arc, arguably) to change things

High Mimetic - Renaissance & Divine Right - the time of the centralization of authority through the King

Low Mimetic - Era of the Bourgeoisie - the time when increasingly more and more people are able to pursue "individual desires"

Ironic - Soon to come - Do I even need to explain what Hell on Earth would look like? We're already moving faster an faster into turning this planet into a wasteland environmentally... now just imagine what that would mean when it finally arrives here. Although most literary critics would probably say we're here already thanks to WWII (Absurdism & Post-Modernism being expressions of our arrival here).

You can see these same patterns within the Saeculum on smaller waves:

Mythic - High
Romantic - Awakening
High Mimetic - Mid-Point [Age of Reagan (Cold War Victory); Age of Teddy Roosevelt (St. Louis World's Fair)]
Low Mimetic - Unraveling
Ironic - Crisis

~Chas'88

Cycle of Civilization: 500 years (493 years)

Neptune and Pluto align every 500 years, beginning a new cycle of civilization lasting to the next conjunction. This cycle charts the fortunes of humanity: the rise and fall of nations and empires, changes in art, religion, science, the general condition of our civilization.

About 100 years after the conjunction is the “golden age” phase of the cycle. For example, here are some dates of the golden ages:

1960 BC Babylon, Egypt Middle Kingdom, etc.
1470 BC Egypt’s New Kingdom.
970 BC Israel (David and Solomon), etc.
470 BC Greece (Pericles, Socrates, etc.), Buddhism begins, age of Confucius, Lao Tzu, etc.
20 AD Rome; Christ, etc.
510 Byzantine golden age, Mayan golden age, etc.
1000 Romanesque/Ottonian age in Europe, Sung China, Tamil India, etc.
1500 High Renaissance, voyages to new world, Moguls, Suleiman in Turkey, Ming China, etc.
2000 What will we create in our new golden age?

In 2012: what will happen? Neptune enters Pisces in 2012. That is the most significant astrological event of the time. In your own chart, look where Pisces is. That will show you how to apply the spiritual energies coming into our lives in 2012. In general, look for humanity to identify with a larger being.

PHASES OF THE CYCLE: the key to our civilization's future
http://philosopherswheel.com/fortunes.htm

When Neptune and Pluto join together in conjunction, they begin a cycle that lasts for 493 years. It is like a "New Moon" of civilization. And just like the Moon does, Neptune goes through "phases" in its cyclic relationship to Pluto. As these phases come and go, civilization develops, reaches full flower and then decays. Therefore we know that our New Age which began in 1892 will also follow these phases. Since, in the past, civilization has followed them in a quite astounding way, they should give us a good idea of what is to come over the next 400 years.

Each of these phases is indicated by aspects which Neptune makes to Pluto during the 493-year cycle. Thus the conjunction is only the beginning; it is the originating impulse that sets the cycle going. Afterward there are seven other main phases. The first three are "waxing," when Neptune is "increasing in light" and civilization is building its creative power. The last three are "waning," when Neptune is "decreasing in light," during which civilization is either declining, becoming fixed in its ways, and/or releasing "seeds" or new ideas that will only bloom in the next cycle. In between is the opposition, which is civilization's "Full Moon;" its climax and full flowering.

Following the conjunction, the first phase is the waxing sextile, when Neptune has moved 2 signs ahead of Pluto. It is like a Crescent Moon phase. These are the creative golden age or renaissance periods when the new civilization overcomes obstacles to its further growth and clearly expresses itself for the first time in serene and classic forms. The Golden Age of Greece, the Augustan Age of Rome, the High Renaissance of Da Vinci and Columbus, and the Turn of the New Millennium in our own age, are examples of the waxing sextile phase.

By the time of the waxing square phase, Neptune has moved 3 signs ahead of Pluto. This is like a First Quarter Moon. It is a time of crisis which tests the foundations of the New Civilization, such as when the Peloponnesian War ended the Golden Age of Greece, and when the Wars of Religion poured cold water on the spirit of the Renaissance. We can expect this phase of crisis to arrive again in about 2065-70 AD. Environmental destruction, ethnic clashes or epidemics could endanger our new Millennial civilization then. We will have to meet and defeat the "ghosts" of the industrial age, such as corporate power and greed and excessive demands for individual "freedom."

The next phase is the waxing trine, which is like a Gibbous Moon. This is the time when civilization is confidently expanding and moving toward its climax, as when Trajan and Hadrian brought the Roman Empire to its greatest power in its brilliant "silver age," or when the First Crusade in 1095 mobilized the Christian Medieval world. The dynamic cathedral art and sculpture of this "Romanesque" era around 1100 AD is often compared to the Baroque style 500 years later. The next waxing trine is scheduled for about 2090. We can expect our new science and art to move ahead confidently, leaving the "old paradigm" forever behind. Earth-centered spiritual ideals will increasingly predominate over the older ideas of "progress." We will move rapidly toward a fully high-tech Aquarian Age culture integrated with the cosmos. But we could also see a rising "crusading mentality" in the following years that may cause a too-aggressive attitude.

When Neptune opposes Pluto across the heavens, it is like a Full Moon of civilization, which now attains its greatest power and expression. During the opposition a culture's ideals are most clearly and scientifically defined. Afterward, however, civilization may start to split apart or rot from within, or else encumber and rigidify itself with too many rules and structures. For example, at the time of the opposition of 323 BC Alexander the Great spread Greek civilization over much of the ancient world. But that year he died and his empire crumbled, and Greek culture began to decline in the "Hellenistic" Age. Similarly, in the mid-17th Century Louis XIV the French "Sun-king" brought classical European Renaissance culture to its height, but then it began to rigidify into the "Ancient Regime" that later collapsed in war and revolution. Greek scientists like Euclid, Roman ones like Ptolemy, and the modern scientific revolution of Descartes and Newton that separated Matter from Spirit, all belong to this Full Moon/opposition phase; so do many of the world's greatest temples. The next opposition is due in 2140. We can expect our high-tech, spiritual and Earth-centered Aquarian Age culture to reach full flower and a new architecture to refashion our cities, but some of our new world-wide institutions may expand too far and attain too much power. These global structures may start to become rigid after 2140, and today's "new paradigm" may become too well-defined and formalized in the following years.

During the waning trine, the beliefs and ideas of the new civilization are disseminated, distributed and institutionalized. The dissemination of Buddhism through Ashoka's empire in India, the establishment of Christianity by Constantine, and the spread of "rational" Enlightenment ideas by the 18th Century "Enlightened Despots" illustrate this phase. This is usually a happy, light or decadent period, so we can expect the 23rd Century during the next waning trine to be relaxed and peaceful but complacent. We can expect that missionaries from other planets, or the "powers that be" on Earth, will be actively sponsoring and disseminating liberating spiritual-green New Age ideas and lifestyles to the people. Global religious institutions may appear.

The period leading up to and during the waning square is a dramatic, powerful, final climax of the cycle. It is like a Last Quarter Moon, and represents the "last glory" of civilization. Usually a powerful leader, such as Ashurbanipal, Constantine, Charlesmagne or Napoleon; creates a great empire; but it seldom lasts for long. Hopes of a New World (as in the French Revolution) soon fade, yet the seeds of new ideas are planted that will bloom in the civilization of the future. This turbulent, emotional period will arrive again in about 2300 AD. Powerful seers will then help us glimpse the coming "Age of Light," due to arrive after the next conjunction of Neptune and Pluto in 2385. However, the illumination of these prophets will not yet be bright enough or free enough from the traces of our Earth-bound, corporate, technological society. We will at this time only dimly see this coming New Age of Light-- an era when we will truly be able to transform ourselves into Light Beings and embark for the far galaxies and the etheric dimensions. By then we will no longer be held back by our unfinished business on Earth, or by our slow, rational, scientific, technical 20th/21st Century methods. The strong leaders of 2300 will try to prepare us for this bright future, but the hopes they promise for us will fall short of realization.

Instead, if the pattern holds, a period of dissolution or disintegration will ensue. This is the waning sextile, equivalent to a Balsamic or "dark moon" phase. Typically it is marked by peasant or worker revolts and by barbarian invasions, such as those of the Huns and Vikings. But it's also sometimes a highly inventive period when new economic arrangements are developed. Thus when the next waning sextile arrives around 2340 we know something of what to expect: much revolt, discontent and migration; perhaps a plague, ice-age, famine, atomic and/or ecological catastrophe or two; plus new methods of keeping track of value that could replace the monetary system and allow us to trade with other galaxies and dimensions. We can expect today's "new paradigms" (the fundamental beliefs and world views now emerging) to start to unravel in a time of great skepticism, controversy and perhaps even fanaticism. If we are ever invaded by a race from another planet, this could be the moment; we can expect such "barbarian aliens" to be held at bay until then. Or it may be the time when the barriers between our Earth civilization and those of other planets and planes begin falling at an unprecedented rate.

I am claiming that the cycle of civilization takes precedence over any proposed "mega-saeculum." Such a mega cycle would be about 336 years, on average. But there is no evidence that I can see that civilizations have followed such a cycle over time. Our own American "civilization" (meaning the United States of America as an entity) would be the first. If such mega-cycles existed earlier, they would have been longer, perhaps well over 400 years long, in which case it would be hard to distinguish them from the 493 year cycle for which I have found a great deal of evidence.

There also appears to be a 600-year cycle of great religions, and civilizations associated with them. This one runs about like this:

575 BC Judaism as a practice and written text, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, etc.
25 AD Christianity
625 AD Islam
1225 AD the new Christian Franciscan order, and the scholastic philosophy of Aquinas
1825 AD Mormon and New Thought religions, Baha'ism

If American-national and possibly other modern mega-saecula exist which last about 330 years, then America in the millennial saeculum is in a mega-unravelling since its founding at the end of the revolutionary 4T. Although I don't think the descriptions fit the "mega-high" (civil war saeculum) and "mega-awakening" (great power saeculum), it is popular today in our current 3T and early 4T to see America as "unravelling," and therefore this must be a mega-unravelling. But of course, America was not "unravelling" at the start of this saeculum, but on the contrary experienced its zenith of success in the "American High."

That's why I suspect any such unravelling today is temporary, is being expressed as our current 3T and 4T, and will be resolved in a new "high" after the 2020s. America as a civilization participates in the larger cycle of civilization, for which the Renaissance and the first European world explorations, and today's modern arts and global culture emerging after the holocaust, are the key markers in our times. This is in spite of the valid observation that the power America reached in the recent 1T is also destined to be temporary, and that we are declining in many ways during our current 3T and early 4T. But that does not mean we will not emerge from this 4T with a renewed civilization, ready to participate in the building and creating of this new global civilization that has been unfolding since the 1890s, here and around the world.

Astrological planetary cycles add weight to this contention, in my opinion. The saeculum at least archetypally and since colonial times equals exactly the Uranus orbit of 84 years. There is also a double rhythm corresponding to Neptune's orbit, which is almost twice the length of Uranus, and a triple rhythm corresponding to Pluto's orbit, almost 3 times longer than that of Uranus. But there is no fourth rhythm, which the mega-cycle would be. Instead, all 3 planets return to their approximate places in a six-fold rhythm, and that's the cycle of civilization. In other words, the 3 outer planets have been in about the same positions in our times as they were in Renaissance times.

None of the other minor or dwarf planets have any resonance with this rhythm, except for some small ones that follow the same three cycles.

Interesting though, I just thought of this. There is a theory of "the 7 ages of man," and 7 12-year cycles of Jupiter equals 1 cycle of Uranus/1 saeculum, which resonates with the average human lifetime. Chakras could be significant here too for these 7 12-year periods, as symbols of stages of human development.

0-12 first chakra of survival and inherited beliefs
12-24 second chakra of sexuality and expression of desires
24-36 third chakra of assertiveness and power
36-48 fourth chakra of connection, feelings and authenticity
48-60 fifth chakra of communication
60-72 sixth chakra of insight and intuitive knowledge
72-84 (plus) seventh chakra of wisdom and connection to the divine

Here are some other views that may be related:

Erik Erikson's 8 stages:

(1) Trust vs. Mistrust
(2) Autonomy vs. Shame and Doubt
(3) Initiative vs. Guilt
(4) Industry vs. Inferiority
(5) Identity vs. Confusion
(6) Intimacy vs. Isolation
(7) Generativity vs. Stagnation
(8) Integrity vs. Despair

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_E...#ixzz2IMn4P9qn

In this popular eight-part PBS series, THE EIGHT STAGES OF MAN, John Bradshaw traces human life through the eight stages of psychological development with details focus on developmental needs and ego strengths in each developmental stage. This revealing lecture series explores why it is important to have the ego needs met through each stage of psychological development. John Bradshaw offers his view on how developmental deficits in any of the stages affect our adult lives.
Part One: Cradle Hypnosis
Part Two: Who Do You Trust?
Part Three: Guilty or Not Guilty
Part Four: Are You Still Receiving A Report Card?
Part Five: Don’t Start The Crisis Without Me
Part Six: They Lived Happily Ever After
Part Seven: The Middle Age Crazies
Part Eight: In All Unwisdom Wise

Wow, this guy must have read my book. Or, he just opened up the book of time and saw the same things.

http://cura.free.fr/xx/20palden.html

It seems the latter.

This one is more familiar, though I had not seen it before:

http://www.librarising.com/astrology...oldenages.html

EDIT: I wrote to Palden Jenkins, and he wrote me back:


Hello Eric

Thanks for your e-mail. Yes, I was aware of your work, and bought your millennium book years ago in another century! Good luck with your update. I recently revised a book I half-wrote about the Millennium (it's on my website) and found that many of the things I was then saying about the Millennium still hold true, even if they no longer are linked to the idea of the Millennium!

Best wishes to you too, and greetings from Cornwall in the far SW or Britain.

Palden


It was nice to hear back.