Originally Posted by Copperfield

Guilt? For something that happened before the vast majority of us were even born?

Frankly if a person feels any shred of guilt for an event they weren't even alive to witness, that person is a moron. A real one... They probably have a membership card and everything.

Or maybe they were just students of history.

Only anti-Americans believe that because America has done something wrong, it always will. "My country always wrong" instead of "My country right or wrong." The latter is a fit for stupid super-patriots; the former for irresponsible anarchists such as yourself. In your case, you are probably against anything that any government ever does. That may be a principled position, but it's a useless one.

Yeah, but I was talking about presidents.

Yeah, but YOU are the person demanding that people be killed from the safety of your own home. Stop living up (down?) to my condemnation by pushing the responsibility on to someone else. If we bomb Syria the people who die will be doing so in your name, and in the name of people like you.

But they were/are attacking foreigners in support of what they thought was a good cause in the national interest, not attacking their own people merely for opposing their policies.

No no, them's YOUR words. I'd just like for you to flesh them out.

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

Yeah, but YOU are the person demanding that people be killed from the safety of your own home. Stop living up (down?) to my condemnation by pushing the responsibility on to someone else. If we bomb Syria the people who die will be doing so in your name, and in the name of people like you.

It will be in your name too, if you are an American.

Since I am not in favor of bombing Syria, the fact that I am an American is all you can pin on me. I guess that's immoral, in your book? Flesh that out for me a little.

What you are really saying, is that if I see a person being gunned down on the street, that I should not call a policeman I have paid for (in this case, the USA sending arms to Syrian rebels) to apprehend the criminal (in this case Assad), and if the criminal or his henchmen (by analogy, the "foreigners" I oppose) shoots at the police, the police should not defend themselves. You and other irresponsible anarchists like Copperfield claim that I should carry a gun and engage in the shootout with the criminal myself. That is the kind of dark-age anarchy I don't want to live in. I'd rather live in civilization thank you very much.

By calling me names and wishing harm upon me because I want us to help the rebels in Syria, it is not really me you are belittling and insulting. It is the 100,000 people Assad has killed, by you saying they don't matter, that I am exaggerating his crimes, saying that he's not as bad as I say. It's you who therefore are saying foreigners don't count, and if they are murdered it's not so important.

Whether foreigners are killed by a president, or one's own people are killed by one, it is immoral; but there are differences depending on the circumstances. Different events are different. No, I don't think Obama's drone attacks are as bad as Assad's murders. But yes, I am opposed to both. And no, I don't think the fact that Obama has killed innocent civilians, disqualifies him from asking the USA to help the rebels in Syria.

No no, them's YOUR words. I'd just like for you to flesh them out.

So there you go.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Or maybe they were just students of history.

Students of history study history. Nothing about studying history (something I do a lot of) ever implies that one should feel guilt for actions they did not take part in (especially for actions which took place before the student existed).

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Only anti-Americans believe that because America has done something wrong, it always will. "My country always wrong" instead of "My country right or wrong." The latter is a fit for stupid super-patriots; the former for irresponsible anarchists such as yourself. In your case, you are probably against anything that any government ever does. That may be a principled position, but it's a useless one.

George, it is you!

Originally Posted by Copperfield

George, it is you!

Got to hand it to W.. nobody would ever expected him to use "Californian astrologer" for a cover identity. That was one hell of a clever move for him.

Originally Posted by Copperfield

Students of history study history. Nothing about studying history (something I do a lot of) ever implies that one should feel guilt for actions they did not take part in (especially for actions which took place before the student existed).

No indeed, but guilt is Brian's word for caution that might be deserved about certain policies, considering what has happened in regard to similar policies in the past.

George, it is you!

Well OK, I don't have an anarchist to label you as, so you win.

No indeed, but guilt is Brian's word for caution that might be deserved about certain policies, considering what has happened in regard to similar policies in the past.

You sure guilt isn't Brian's word for, you know, guilt?

Well OK, I don't have an anarchist to label you as, so you win.

Emma Goldman? Proudhon? Kropotkin? Nestor Makhno? Sacco? Vanzetti?

Whatever happened to your vaunted googling?

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

You sure guilt isn't Brian's word for, you know, guilt?

Yes, I'm sure. It is recognizing what happened as a result of past policies that he refers to.

Emma Goldman? Proudhon? Kropotkin? Nestor Makhno? Sacco? Vanzetti?

Whatever happened to your vaunted googling?

Just not interested in that fight, I guess.

We've got a big astrological figure coming up around April 20, and it spotlights the USA again with Jupiter still in the zodiac region that indicates US involvement, and corresponds to most of its wars. On April 20 Jupiter will be in the USA's exact solar degree of 13 Cancer (meaning the chart for July 4, 1776), and so we'll see what significance this might still have. Also, the ongoing Uranus-Pluto square ("see what Tunisia started"; the aspect combo of revolutions, and chains of them), will be opposite and square to (90 degree angle) this same exact degree, with warlike Mars (now close to Earth) also squaring it exactly, all forming a grand cross in the sky within the same 13th degree of cardinal signs (Cancer, Libra, Capricorn, Aries), right on the US solar degree and US Saturn degree. These kinds of angles indicate bold or aggressive actions and conflicts.

This page for our local astrology club meeting has sort of a picture of this April grand cross (scroll down to see all 4 planets)
https://www.facebook.com/events/7244...ilter=calendar

I'm thinking that since Mars is in Libra for 8 months this year (stationary in March and May), and my research has shown that it can indicate peace agreements, that this is a chance for Sec. Kerry and the USA to resolve some issues with Iran, Syria and elsewhere during this period. It is also a chance for us to get involved in some military actions or quagmires; although since America doesn't want to do that right now, it could indicate actions that could involve us down the road (which usually means the next time Jupiter comes around to the same area, around 2025 or so). It is likely to be the time when the revolutions and uprisings going on around the world will heat up, and some new ones begin. Things will be hot from March through June I'm sure, as was the case in early January as Mars first passed through these hot angles.

I should have done more work on this prediction as far as location is concerned, since Ukraine is specifically targeted by these aspects I mentioned above. Still, the Middle East is also heating up. I had predicted something good could come out of the overtthrow of Morsi, since it happened during the great grand trine of July 2013. This has not come to pass, as Sisi and his thugs are reverting to the ways of old. They are ruthlessly repressing opposition, but protest hasn't ended. If the people rebelled against Mubarkek and Morsi, they could rise up against Sisi too. This could happen in April or May, and if not, then maybe next year when Uranus makes its final revolutionary square to Pluto-- which has indicated this ongoing era of revolution that I predicted long ago.

In 2017, I am saying some of these movements could be resolved and justice brought to these lands, as the era of revolution ends. The charts seem to indicate that in the Spring, progress could come to south-east asian nations like Burma; but after August, it looks like Syria and Palestine could be the scene of successful international action led by the USA and the UK. Obviously, that also means a Democratic president will be elected the previous year, as a Republican is incapable of even perceiving, let alone helping to bring Justice about (with the possible exception of Rand Paul, maybe; Jeb Bush??? I'd say unlikely). It is possible that Egypt could benefit from this period as well, and it could end up with something at-least somewhat better than what they started with.

Freedom, democracy and justice are long-term goals in nations that have never seen them. Even to restore it more fully to the USA is a big job, which cynical Xers and uncivic civic millennials are not yet up to.

So much for the grand trine. Or the intervention in Syria.

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

So much for the grand trine. Or the intervention in Syria.

The threat of which led to an agreement to remove chemical weapons. The grand trine worked! Plus an agreement in the works with Iran on nuclear weapons, which began because a new leader was elected in Iran under the grand trine! I expect it to work out by Summer.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

The threat of which led to an agreement to remove chemical weapons. The grand trine worked! Plus an agreement in the works with Iran on nuclear weapons, which began because a new leader was elected in Iran under the grand trine! I expect it to work out by Summer.

Duly noted. We'll check back in a few months.

Former Ambassador Ford says everything I would say about Syria. He says the things that Jordan and Copperfield call me a bloodthirsty warmonger or worse for saying. Ford is exactly right.



http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/syria...er-ambassador/

JUDY WOODRUFF: Our chief foreign affairs correspondent, Margaret Warner sat down with Ford today, on the first day he has agreed to be interviewed on television since his departure, to discuss the election and what he sees as the failures of U.S. policy.

MARGARET WARNER: Ambassador Ford, thank you for joining us.

ROBERT FORD, Former U.S. Ambassador to Syria: It’s my pleasure to be here.

MARGARET WARNER: So, President Assad seems to be coasting to another victory in an election. What’s going to be the impact of that, both on the political situation and the battlefield situation?

ROBERT FORD: I don’t think it will have much impact on the battlefield. I have no indication that the opposition and the armed opposition groups are going to stop fighting, so I think the election will have no result on that.

Politically, it will cheer Assad’s supporters. I have seen pictures today of celebrations in Syria. But it really is simply a signal. The election is a signal to us to, to other countries in the region, to Europe, et cetera, that Assad is not leaving, he is staying, deeply entrenched in the capital in Syria, even as other parts of the country remain outside his control.

MARGARET WARNER: And so is it time for us to recognize that, in fact, he’s going to be there a long time, that the whole strategy both of the opposition and the Western- and Gulf- and neighbor-backed efforts has not worked?

ROBERT FORD: Well, certainly, the efforts we have made to date have not worked. They have not put enough pressure on the regime on the ground.

And that’s why the peace talks that we tried to do in January and February in Geneva, when I was there, and the regime completely refused to discuss a political settlement. The policy has not brought them to the point where they feel they have to negotiate. They’re not under enough pressure. So, so we need to think about how to escalate pressure.

MARGARET WARNER: And certainly not a transition that didn’t include Assad as a part of it?

ROBERT FORD: Well, the message of the election today is that he’s not going anywhere.

MARGARET WARNER: You left as ambassador in early 2012.

ROBERT FORD: In February, right.

MARGARET WARNER: Under fears for your own safety and the safety of the entire embassy.

ROBERT FORD: Safety of the team, yes.

MARGARET WARNER: But you stayed at the State Department. Why have you left now?

ROBERT FORD: In the end, Margaret, I worked from Washington on the Syria issue for two years.

Events on the ground were moving, and our policy was not evolving very quickly. We were constantly behind the curve. And that’s why now we have extremist threats to our own country. We had a young man from Florida, apparently, who was involved in a suicide bombing, and there will be more problems like that, I fear.

Our policy wasn’t evolving, and finally I got to the point where I could no longer defend it publicly. And as a professional career member of the U.S. diplomatic service, when I can no longer defend the policy in public, it is time for me to go.

MARGARET WARNER: What was the biggest mistake you think the Obama administration, this government made?

ROBERT FORD: We have consistently been behind the curve.

The events on the ground are moving more rapidly than our policy has been adapting. And at the same time, Russia and Iran have been driving this by increasing and steadily increasing, increasing massively, especially the Iranians, their support to the Syrian regime.

And the result of that has been more threats to us in this ungoverned space which Assad can’t retake. We need and we have long needed to help moderates in the Syrian opposition with both weapons and other nonlethal assistance. Had we done that a couple of years ago, had we ramped it up, frankly, the al-Qaida groups that have been winning adherents would have been unable to compete with the moderates, who, frankly, we have much in common with.

But the moderates have been fighting constantly with arms tied behind their backs, because they don’t have the same resources that either Assad does or the al-Qaida groups in Syria do.

MARGARET WARNER: But you know the arguments we all heard from many in the White House, which is, if we arm the opposition, we don’t know who will get ahold of these advanced weapons.

ROBERT FORD: I have heard those arguments, Margaret.

To be very frank, we have plenty of information on reliable groups, and we have long had that. It is a question of whether or not there’s a will to actually help people whose agenda is compatible with our national security interests, and then to make a decision and push forward. And that really is the question before the administration.

MARGARET WARNER: And who lacks the will? Is it the president?

ROBERT FORD: I’m simply going to say that I think it’s on record now that the State Department, for a long time, has advocated doing much more to help the moderates in the Syrian opposition, these moderates, by the way, who evolved directly from the peaceful protest movement that I saw with my own eyes in 2011.

And those people need more help. And arguments that were worried things are going to trickle into bad hands or that it’s going to bring in American troops directly, nobody is asking for American troops to be sent there. I was in Iraq for five years. The last thing we want is to have a repeat of the Iraq experience.

But there are other tools in our toolkit, and those are the things we need to work on, in conjunction with our allies in the region.

MARGARET WARNER: Now, President Obama in his West Point speech last week said he was going to ramp up support to the opposition, but it was left totally unspecified. What did that say to you? What does that mean?

ROBERT FORD: It’s not clear to me yet if they are prepared to ramp it up in such a way that it will be meaningful on the ground, and that’s really what matters. This is a civil war.

And we can’t get to a political negotiation until the balance on the ground compels — and I use that word precisely — compels Assad not to run sham elections, but rather to negotiate a political deal. But the situation on the ground is key.

MARGARET WARNER: Do you think it’s too late at this point?

ROBERT FORD: No, I absolutely don’t, but I do think that the way the policy has been moving has been so slow on our part.

And that has caused frustration in the region. It’s caused huge frustration among large segments of the Syrian population. And so I’m hoping that the president’s speech signals that now we are getting more serious. But we will have to see what happens on the ground.

MARGARET WARNER: And if this conflict continues for years as it is now, does that increase the terrorist threat here to the United States?

ROBERT FORD: I think it can’t help but do that, because there’s large parts of Syria that are basically ungoverned.

And just as happened in Afghanistan, just as happened in Somalia, just as has happened in Mali and Yemen, when you have large ungoverned spaces, groups especially like al-Qaida are quite skilled at setting up operations there, and then sending out people, sending out resources, sending out money, coordinating.

It’s very dangerous. We warned about this years ago on the Syria team at the State Department. This is — we expected this was going to happen.

MARGARET WARNER: But the warnings went unheeded?

ROBERT FORD: The policy has evolved very slowly. And events on the ground have not evolved as slowly. Events on the ground, it’s a dynamic situation. It changes.

I should point out that I predicted both war and diplomacy working for this period, centering on Ukraine or other former Soviet Republics, because of Mars stationary in Libra. That's exactly what we see in Ukraine now. Putin is backing off, after an agreement, but war with separatists is happening.

Typical imperialist propaganda. Is this really the best you can do, Eric? Whatever happened to the grand trine, wasn't that supposed to take care of all of this? A deal with Iran is looking like the last, best hope of that, and time is running out.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I should point out that I predicted both war and diplomacy working for this period, because of Mars stationary in Libra. That's exactly what we see in Ukraine. Putin is backing off, after an agreement, but war with separatists is happening.

Lol, "I predicted both war, and peace! And that's what happened!"

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

Typical imperialist propaganda.

Is that the best you can do? Pathetic as usual. The policy you support is pathetic, shortsighted and cowardly, and has resulted in hundreds of thousands of needless deaths.

Is this really the best you can do, Eric? Whatever happened to the grand trine, wasn't that supposed to take care of all of this? A deal with Iran is looking like the last, best hope of that, and time is running out.

Time isn't up yet on Iran. I don't know if the Morsi overthrow of that time will lead to good things or not. Like you probably, I don't think the situation is very good, but the Egyptian ambassador to the USA is keen to point toward the new liberal constitution. At least that prediction certainly came true.

I never said the great grand trine of July 2013 would take care of all of this, because of the troubles indicated for this period we have been in the last few months, and will continue in for another month. I did say that the trine and indications in the months afterward suggested more involvement by the US in Syria, and that did start to happen right during the trine. But so far it isn't enough, and it was already too late. We'll see; I have already said I think it will be 2017 before "all this is settled."

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

Lol, "I predicted both war, and peace! And that's what happened!"

Quite true though, isn't it!

I dunno, man, you were pretty insistent on how wonderful it was going to be. We'll give ya another couple of months on the Iran thing, and we'll wait a bit longer on the Egypt thing, too. Who knows, maybe Sisi really is a liberal democrat in disguise.

As for Syria, you can continue to lobby for bloodthirsty imperialist policies, and I will continue to oppose them. And that doesn't just go for these little brushfires, but whatever the main conflagration turns out to be in a few more years. Whatever it is, I'm sure you'll be cheerleading for it at the top of your lungs.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

Quite true though, isn't it!

Yes, amazing Eric, you predicted that somewhere in the world, there would be both war, and diplomacy. Impressive stuff. What's next, astrology is going to suggest that the Sun will rise tomorrow? In the east, no less!

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

I dunno, man, you were pretty insistent on how wonderful it was going to be. We'll give ya another couple of months on the Iran thing, and we'll wait a bit longer on the Egypt thing, too. Who knows, maybe Sisi really is a liberal democrat in disguise.

As for Syria, you can continue to lobby for bloodthirsty imperialist policies, and I will continue to oppose them. And that doesn't just go for these little brushfires, but whatever the main conflagration turns out to be in a few more years. Whatever it is, I'm sure you'll be cheerleading for it at the top of your lungs.

Little brushfire, ha ha. You call hundreds of thousands dead and a country destroyed a "little brushfire!" You are the ignorant, bloodthirsty one, continuing to support allowing the fire to burn up the people of Syria. Ambassador Ford is exactly right, and the policies he supports are exactly right.

Another conflagration like this is not due until Dec.2020; I guess you call that "a few more years." I think there will be some fighting in 2016 that could be notable (I forget now just where), but I don't think anything like what's happening in Syria will start somewhere else this decade. In 2017 the Arab Spring revolts have a good chance to wind down, and an agreement between Israel and Palestine has a chance then too. We may look back to July 2013 as the time when the process started.

The monster in Syria is probably among the deadliest tyrants of my lifetime. Some Communist conflagrations were worse, so far, as in China in the 1950s and Cambodia in the 1970s; at least insofar as they can be attributed to one tyrant. Unless you count Lyndon B. Johnson and Richard Nixon in Vietnam, or George W. Bush in Iraq. But these latter examples were not tyrants killing their own people in their own land; they were "imperialist" bloodbaths, which I strongly and loudly opposed. I am confident Obama and Hillary are wise enough because of these past US errors to avoid getting sucked in militarily in Syria, just because we send military aid to democratic rebels there.

And I can point out that I was ahead of other posters here in opposing the war in Iraq, and I am ahead of other posters here now in supporting aid to the Syrian Arab-Spring rebels.

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

Yes, amazing Eric, you predicted that somewhere in the world, there would be both war, and diplomacy. Impressive stuff. What's next, astrology is going to suggest that the Sun will rise tomorrow? In the east, no less!

I think it IS an amazing prediction, that I said would happen in the former Soviet Empire, and more-recently said it centered on Ukraine. How many times do you actually have war and peace going on in the same place, just as I said would happen?

Yeah, yeah, more warmongering boomer nonsense. I get it. You've made some more predictions, and we can check in on them as time goes on.

Also, given that you acknowledged that you didn't predict Ukraine at all, I think you're conflating several vague and sweeping pronouncements made before and after the Ukraine stuff occurred into one amazing prediction after the fact, which is typical for you.

Originally Posted by JordanGoodspeed

Yeah, yeah, more warmongering boomer nonsense. I get it. You've made some more predictions, and we can check in on them as time goes on.

Oh, OK so now it is "boomer" warmongering nonsense lol. So what was my nonsense when I opposed the war in Iraq? Was that "boomer nonsense" too?

Also, given that you acknowledged that you didn't predict Ukraine at all, I think you're conflating several vague and sweeping pronouncements made before and after the Ukraine stuff occurred into one amazing prediction after the fact, which is typical for you.

Quite the contrary, I predicted an uprising in the former Soviet lands for exactly when it happened. Correct predictions are indeed typical for me. And admitting when I missed something, at least in full detail, is also typical of me. Making sweeping insults and generalizations is typical of you.

Philosophers of death like you and Vandal would never admit to a correct prediction made using astrology, even if it happened.