Originally Posted by Chas'88

Him alone no, but considering that England had been in a Saxon civil war of sorts since 1051, all of a sudden it becomes one. Harold caused a lot of grief for Edward the Confessor before he died. The relationship between Edward the Confessor and Harold is strikingly similar to that of Henry VI and Edward IV four hundred years later. In that parallel, William the Conquerer is an older equivalent of Henry VII.

~Chas'88

I think Grey's point is good. I knew the change happened, though I'm not sure it was as traumatic as (s)he stated. Still, dynastic struggles among the Saxon kings, Danes and Normans were quite persistent over many decades, so these alone don't seem like a crisis. What makes a modern crisis more than "tournaments in the park" is the involvement of all the people in them. The conquest may have done that, although it was swift so I'm not sure there's an entire era we can call a "crisis." Conflicts among throne claimants alone though, is not like a modern crisis.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I think Grey's point is good. I knew the change happened, though I'm not sure it was as traumatic as he stated. Still, dynastic struggles among the Saxon kings, Danes and Normans were quite persistent over many decades, so these alone don't seem like a crisis. What makes a modern crisis more than "tournaments in the park" is the involvement of all the people in them. The conquest may have done that, although it was swift so I'm not sure there's an entire era we can call a "crisis." Conflicts among throne claimants alone though, is not like a modern crisis.

When you're raising armies amongst the people and pitching them against one another in a conflict that goes on for several years, it involved more than just the "throne claimnants".

As for what the Norman Invasion led to, as put in terms of comedy:



~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Him alone no, but considering that England had been in a Saxon civil war of sorts since 1051, all of a sudden it becomes one. Harold caused a lot of grief for Edward the Confessor before he died. The relationship between Edward the Confessor and Harold is strikingly similar to that of Henry VI and Edward IV four hundred years later. In that parallel, William the Conquerer is an older equivalent of Henry VII.

Very much so. Excellent observation.


I have a write up for the Norman Invasion crisis in England (1046-71) here. Chas is right. There is Butlerian spiral of violence (or implied violence) from the crisis of of 1051 to the death of Edward in 1066. Edward's death triggers a second spiral over three rivals for the throne, which was decided with finality over the 1066-1075 period. These two periods define a period of crisis in politics over 1051-1075. Politics is just one aspect of society. Economics is another. My building index measure implies a shift from tough economic times to better economic times around 1071. Finally there are the generations at play. In this particular crisis we have important players from the usual Nomad and Hero generations, but also some prophets too, in the early part. So we actually have a constellation of three adult generations who reach their characteristic phases of life of adulthood, mature adulthood (leader gen) and elderhood at age 26, 52 and 78. Adding these to the start dates for the preceding 3T, 2T and 1T gives 1042 for all three generations. This means the generations were in place for a crisis to begin as early as 1042. Sometime between 1042 and 1051 the turning flipped from 3T to 4T. I estimated a date by taking the average of the two (1046) and call this the start of the 4T. I do the same thing for the other end, except prophets are replaced by artists because the prophets have all died and some artists are now playing important roles.

Chas, in Terry Jones Medieval episode on the damsel they mention an elderly knight who comes to an elderly damsel in distress. That knight is one of the actors I have listed for the Magna Carta Awakening. And yeah that 70-year old playing Lancelot turns out to be a hero archetype. Sometimes this stuff really does fall into place.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

I think Grey's point is good. I knew the change happened, though I'm not sure it was as traumatic as he stated. Still, dynastic struggles among the Saxon kings, Danes and Normans were quite persistent over many decades, so these alone don't seem like a crisis. What makes a modern crisis more than "tournaments in the park" is the involvement of all the people in them. The conquest may have done that, although it was swift so I'm not sure there's an entire era we can call a "crisis." Conflicts among throne claimants alone though, is not like a modern crisis.

Eric - please get this through your head - THE GREY BADGER IS A FEMALE.

A **FEMALE**.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Eric - please get this through your head - THE GREY BADGER IS A FEMALE.

A **FEMALE**.

What's a girl badger called?

-consults Teh Oracle-

hmm... 'sow'. nevermind...

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Eric - please get this through your head - THE GREY BADGER IS A FEMALE.

A **FEMALE**.

Not thinkng of resurrecting your old forum name are you?

Originally Posted by Justin '77

What's a girl badger called?

-consults Teh Oracle-

hmm... 'sow'. nevermind...

As are Mama bears. The male is called a 'boar' - I'm sure a certain homophone will come to mind immediately.

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Not thinkng of resurrecting your old forum name are you?

No, I don't think so. This one suits me better.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

As are Mama bears. The male is called a 'boar' - I'm sure a certain homophone will come to mind immediately.

Why would colonialism in southern Africa come to mind?

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

No, I don't think so. This one suits me better.

Yeah, it does. At first when I saw it I initially thought you were male as well (because I thought the handle was a tribute to The Wind in the Willows), remember? But as I got to know your personality it became obvious why this handle suits you better. Like a Badger you like digging around in the roots of all things and finding tasty thought morsels to ponder.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Why would colonialism in southern Africa come to mind?

Wrong homophone. (Yawns and surreptitiously checks one's smartphone.)

Originally Posted by Chas'88

Yeah, it does. At first when I saw it I initially thought you were male as well (because I thought the handle was a tribute to The Wind in the Willows), remember? But as I got to know your personality it became obvious why this handle suits you better. Like a Badger you like digging around in the roots of all things and finding tasty thought morsels to ponder.

~Chas'88

Thanks! I'm going to add that observation to my notebook.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Originally Posted by Marx & Lennon

Not thinkng of resurrecting your old forum name are you?

No, I don't think so. This one suits me better.

Good. I was worried there for a minute or two.

Originally Posted by Mikebert

Chas, in Terry Jones Medieval episode on the damsel they mention an elderly knight who comes to an elderly damsel in distress. That knight is one of the actors I have listed for the Magna Carta Awakening. And yeah that 70-year old playing Lancelot turns out to be a hero archetype. Sometimes this stuff really does fall into place.

And just like typical civics they couldn't stop working and tinkering--old age be damned! Hell, that knight took the castle away from Nichola and she got in such a huff about it she arranged to get it back and carry out her duties as warden of the castle for another fifteen years or so.

~Chas'88

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

Eric - please get this through your head - THE GREY BADGER IS A FEMALE.

A **FEMALE**.

How do you determine the sex of a badger, through a computer yet?

Originally Posted by Chas'88

When you're raising armies amongst the people and pitching them against one another in a conflict that goes on for several years, it involved more than just the "throne claimnants".

Sure thing, however that's still a small part of the population, and it's not about the people. There may be grounds for postulating such a "crisis" in circa 1051-1071; however remember what mikebert also admits in his "better moments."

There are fluctuations in society, but the saeculum in medieval times can't be like today's cycle. It is probably not determined by generations. As I have pointed out, you can't have a generational cycle with only two living generations supposed to generate a 100-year long cycle; and change is too slow between generations; there are no "gaps." So archetypes don't really apply. But ebbs and flows can be distinguished, as mike as done with his castle-building and other economic and political statistics. I don't remember whether mikebert has established these across Europe or just in particular countries; he has posted these stats elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Eric the Green

How do you determine the sex of a badger, through a computer yet?

Try "She's said so several times already"? Since there's no way to check for certain child-feeding appendages unique to female mammals.

Oddly enough - way, way back in the day, it was considered a compliment to tell a woman that she thought like a man, the subtext being "as well as" one. It was also considered a compliment to tell one that, frex, "A scientist? No! You don't LOOK like a scientist!" [I'm not. Example out of the clear blue, or else a dim memory.]

How To Run The World by Parag Khanna. "In a neo-medieval world, multiple identities are possible according to your nation, profession, religion, ethnicity, or even your online avatar."

Came across an interesting comment from TV Tropes. That for revitalizing a civilization new ideas and new institutions are required. You may try to patch up an old Universal Empire-such as the Roman Empire (Diocletian)-but that meant survival through draconian change-rather than revitalization.

I expect that I will eventually check out two books by Stephen Blaha: 1. The Life Cycle of Civilization 2. SuperCivilizations: Civilizations as Superorganisms

The organic metaphor applied to civilization.

Another metaphor from biology is metamorphosis.

Stephen Blaha's Life Cycle of Civilization.

Blaha certainly has some interesting comments. For example, the interaction between Hellenic and ancient Egyptian civilizations suggests possible trends for the 21st century. Will international interactions have a stimulating effect? It was commented some time ago that such led to the (Italian) Renaissance.

If you check out the Previews (see above link) Blaha has some interesting comments regarding the aftermath of 1914. Blaha said that Western civ should have experienced a Rout after 1914-but technological change seems to have allowed the civilization to prosper instead of deteriorate. Also, a similar effect seems to have allowed Japan to recuperate from WWII.