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Posted by: Virgil K. Saari
Date posted: Fri Apr 20 12:52:53 2001
Subject: EU! PU!
Message:
Mr. Robert Conquest looks to Celto-Anglophilia as a solution to the search for an alternative to the ONE BIG IDEA of a European Superstate in the Spring 2001 number of American Outlook. He argues that the traditions of the English Speaking peoples cause them to be tied to different ideas than their European neighbors.

Posted by: Tim Walker '56 (Tim Walker '56 )

Date posted: Fri Apr 20 22:35:16 2001
Subject: Anglosphere Versus Euroland
Message:
The basic Anglosphere idea has appeared in Euroskeptic web
sites. Britain's situation reminds me of NAFTA, or Australia's overture towards Asia-geography supposedly trumps cultural ties. I do wonder which countries Robert Conquest thought might follow Britain out of Euroland and into the Anglosphere.

Posted by: Vince Lamb '59
Date posted: Sun Apr 22 22:49:34 2001
Subject: Anglosphere=Oceania
Message:
I find it highly ironic that a Russian/Soviet scholar at one of the great conservative think tanks would seriously propose an idea that is the capitalist reincarnation of Orwell's Oceania, which was essentially the US taking over the British Empire. I'm even more surprised that Virgil either didn't catch it or, if he caught it, held his tongue about it!

Posted by: Mr. Mambo
Date posted: Mon May 7 12:16:45 2001
Subject: What, no tirade from Angeli yet?
Message:
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html

Posted by: Tim Walker '56 (Tim Walker '56 )

Date posted: Sun Jul 1 10:37:21 2001
Subject: Undemocratic European Union?
Message:
This is in reference to an article in the June?July issue of
Policy Review: "Europe In The Balance" by Lee Casey and Davod Rivkin. The authors argue that old ways of governing-predating the Reformation, Enlightenment, Revolutionary ideas on which the U.S.A. was founded-have revived in the guise of the EU. One is Medieval-the idea of a supranational authority (the Pope in the past) that could wield authority over princes and kings. Another-early Modern period-which appeared under absolute monarchs, is a centralized bureaucracy that is accountable to no one. With no Papal dominance or absolutist monarch, there is now a supranational authority in the form of an unaccountable bureaucracy. (Check out Eurosceptic web sites). "If in the long run, the political ideas of the Reformation and Enlightenment prove to be exceptions to a more permanent and ancient European rule, departures rather than transformations, this will create unique and serious problems for the United States. The American republic has no place, intellectually or politically, in the pre-Enlightenment European world...what model of non-totalitarian governance will ultimately triumph globally is still very much in doubt...Europe has rarely been content, for long, to manage its own affairs without seeking to export its vision of the proper order of things...Europe viewed itself as the leader of the world's affairs...Europe can be expected to challenge the United States ideologically and politically...Europe's political and intellectual leaders have certainly not been reticent about vigorously criticizing virtually every facet of American domestic and foreign policies, with the more reflective European pundits challenging the bedrock principles of American society and government." Perphaps Euro-Boomers will try to impose on the U.S.A. what the EU has already impose

Posted by: David McGuiness
Date posted: Wed May 9 22:07:44 2001
Subject: Anglican Unraveling continued ca. 1752-1776
Message:
The conflicts in North America were but one part of a story that was being played out in both Europe and Asia. To that extent, the warfare period of this unraveling from 1756 to 1763 can and has been described as a "World War". The peiod has also been labled as the "Great War for Empire" or perhaps putting it more simply the "First Great War," by analogy to the "Second Great War," being the one that would be fought during the warfare period of the New Freedom Unraveling from 1914 to 1918. But the turning point of the war in North America came in 1757, largely because of prophet archetype William Pitt (the Elder) who then entered the British cabinet. Pitt concentrated his resources on the navy and the colonies, while subsidizing his prophet archetype ally, Frederick of Prussia, to fight on in Europe. His strategy was, as he put it, to win an empire on the plains of Germany, and he succeeded brilliantly. His reinforced navie swept the French off the seas, while the American colonists, stirred by his leadership, joined the British regulars to form a force of about 50,000 men. This huge army overwhelmed one French fort after another. The climax came with the siege of Quebec, the heart of French Canada and a great natural stronghold on the banks of the St. Lawrence. In the ensuing battle, the French and the British commanders, the prophet archetype Marquis de Montcalm and nomad archetype General James Wolfe, were killed. But the British veterans prevailed, and Quebec surrendered in September 1759. The fall of Montreal the following year spelle the end of the French colonial empire in America. (more later) Copyright DMMcG

Will the UK have a conservative backlash during their 4T? Usually, the 4T event starts with a backlash against 3T era society. The War of the Roses began with a backlash against the Yorks and Landcasters. The Spanigh Armada Crisis was a backlash against a world being controlled by Catholicism. The Glorious Revolution was a reaction against having a very brittle and fanatic regime. The American Revolution was a reaction against being politically dependent on Britain. The Civil War was a reaction against having two economically, politically, and culturally different nations with starkly diverging politics and economic under the same regime. The Great Power Crisis reacted against the laissex-faire economic policies of the 1920s, and also the question of socialism versus fascism. So Britain's 4T might react totally to the liberal social norms and ideologies, with a rerooting of the Religious Right. But with the US, it is likely to be the opposite since our 3T was governed by conservative politics, with a corporate takeover of government, a very bloated and inefficient government, continued pollution, and the destruction of our energy future by conservatives. So while the UK might look more like a conservative nation in 2030, the US will probably have a much smaller and streamlined government, and with corporations losing a significant amount of power and influence.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,...310271,00.html

I've seen reports that the level of violence is very high is some places in Europe, but partcularly in France. France also has some sort of battle going on over offensive advertising. Finally, the independent films coming out of France and a few other countries are often ultra-violent ("Rape Me" springs to mind).

Is this a symptom of a lagging 3T unraveling (e.g., similar to the US before 1994) or something else?

Interestingly, the few indie films I've seen out of northern Europe seem to be locked in a 70s time warp. More than one film deals with 'alternative family in a big house' themes that seem pretty exhausted after 25 years of repetition.

I am always searching the news for stories that contain a generational subject.

-----

Friday September 28 2001

CALL TO 'MAKE WAR, NOT LOVE'
by Tim Reid

SUPPORT for military strikes against the September 11 terrorists and the countries that backed them is coming from an unexpected quarter. Standing firmly behind Tony Blair and President Bush are Britain's students.

The 82 per cent approval rating among 18 to 34-year-olds for the Prime Minister's hawkish response - was reflected yesterday on campuses across the country. From many undergraduates the message is: make war, not love.

In the late 1960s and 1970s the London School of Economics was synonymous with anti-war protest. The first university in Britain to catch the wave of protest that swept in from America and France - inspired originally by the Vietnam War - its students started a nine-day sit-in and a boycott of lectures in 1967. Many more revolts followed.

In London's Houghton Street yesterday, outside the university shop selling LSE baseball caps, sweatshirts and "I'm an LSE Babe" T-shirts, hardly a vestige of the spirit of 1967 could be found.

George Ioannou, 23, the LSE's entertainments officer and an economics graduate, said: "I am sure that soon the students' union will meet and pass the official line of the union. I think it will be to support military action. It's totally different from the 1960s. The school has changed completely.

"It's very much career orientated now. Eighty per cent of students just want to get careers in banks and accountancy firms. New York is the mother of that. And the scale of the attacks was too much even for those who might protest. They are being drowned out by the people who want military action."

Jane Edbrooke, 20, studying government, was more cautious, but said: "Generally, if military action was structured and precise, students here would support it."

At Bristol University, another hotbed of protest 30 years ago, there was strong support for military action. Lucy Foster, 26, a PhD student, said: "This sort of indiscriminate killing of civilians cannot be seen to be tolerated. There must be justice. I would support any move to take out Osama bin Laden and those who follow him. To let this sort of barbaric act go unpunished would be a green light to other extremists. There has to be retaliation of some kind."

Justin Trigg, 21, a fourth-year aerospace engineer at the university, was quick to support decisive military action. "I think it's time that terrorism was clamped down on. It's impossible to support what happened in New York. It's been at least a decade since someone has taken a stand against the murder of innocent civilians. By taking appropriate action now, terrorists the world over will have been warned. Terrorism must be fought before it all gets out of hand."

Michael White, 19, a maths undergraduate, said: "I think we have done the right thing by taking British troops over to the Middle East. We should support America all the way. They are our closest allies and need our backing.

"We should be making every effort to capture bin Laden as well as target any other terrorist network. It is our responsibility now to show that organisations cannot get away with these sorts of cowardly acts."

Students in Newcastle also voiced support for military action. Sarah Gammon, 21, from Lincoln, said: "I think it is a national duty for Britain to stand side-by-side with America. Terrorism needs to be beaten out of this world and I totally agree with Tony Blair's decision to back up President Bush all the way."

Aoife Grant, 20, said: "I think war is the only resort left to rid the world of terrorism. The terrorists who targeted America must be punished and I think Britain should help fight these people for our own safety."

Jamie Gulliver, 19, agreed. "Tony Blair is right to stand behind America in the fight against terrorism. The attacks on America recently deserve a reaction and war is the only possible option now. These terrorists need to be taught a lesson."

At Liverpool University, Steve Bloomfield, 20, the president of the Guild of Students, said: "Students are torn and confused. The traditional attitude is anti-military. But it is not as clear cut as that any more."

But older heads counselled caution yesterday, reflecting the findings of the MORI poll. Alfred Phelps, 81, from Fenham in Newcastle, said: "I've seen it all before and I've seen what war can do to a country. With the range of weapons available now, like nuclear bombs, if a war is started, there will be no end to the devastation."

Ronald Wannop, 56, from Amble, Northumberland, said: "Terrorism is so widespread across the whole world that this is not going to be an easy fight.

"I don't think it should be Britain who stands side-by-side with America: we're supposed to be part of Europe. Why are we singled out to give so much support?"



Copyright 2001 Times Newspapers Ltd.

Strange coincidence re: 911 attack found in calender distributed from an Islamic school in Holland:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...7/124953.shtml

This article is reproduced for non-commercial, discussion purposes only.

-----

Wednesday October 03 2001

NO SHADES OF GREY ON TONY'S MORAL PLANET
by Matthew Parris

SNAKES alive. Talk about "mission-creep" - this was mission-lurch, mission-leap. At his party's Brighton conference yesterday Tony Blair left the runway on a limited strike to remove one individual from a hillside in Afghanistan - and veered off on a neo-imperial mission to save the entire planet. Such was the Prime Minister's resolve that even the grey had miraculously fled his hair.

His ambitions left Kipling looking wimpish.

First a Government was to be removed. The Taleban must "surrender".

Then all terrorism was to be wiped off the face of the Earth: "We will take action at every level." Then all who give succour to terrorists would be zapped, being "every bit as guilty".

This "force for good" was something Britain was to "take pride in leading".

And he had hardly started. To his audience's astonishment, after tipping his wings over the Balkans ("we won"), Blair threw the prime-ministerial VC10 into a steep starboard bank and headed for Africa.

Far below, Rwanda caught his eye. If the slaughter of millions that happened there eight years ago should be repeated, "we would have a moral duty to act there also". As the skies above Rwanda filled with British parachutes, Blair roared northwest to Sierra Leone. "We were there," he declared.

Actually, we still are. By page 5 of his speech, the greater part of Britain's Armed Forces was earmarked for battle across the globe.

National conscription loomed. Peering from the cockpit Blair shrugged off such details - for what was below? An immense, impenetrable jungle cut by a vast river stretching half way across Africa.

Engines roar. He wheels south. We must "sort out", he said, the Congo.

Crikey. The cockpit radio crackles as Blair speaks. "Hello, Aldershot, are you receiving me? 50,000 more troops - with parachutes, submersibles, Zodiacs, malaria pills and jungle survival kits . . .

". . . Hello? Hello? There aren't any left? Damn. Get me Gordon Brown."

He flies on. Zambia slips beneath him, mercifully, in a moment of inattention. Sudan, Eritrea, Somalia, Kenya, Zanzibar, are hidden below the horizon behind, thank God. But what's this? Oops. Zimbabwe.

"No excuses!" Blair cries, "no tolerance of" . . . the activities of Mr Mugabe's henchmen. "Proper commercial, legal and financial systems! The will . . . to broker agreements for peace and provide troops to police them!" Locked into the aircraft loo the Defence Secretary, Geoff Hoon, was softly weeping. "Africa is a scar," Blair declared. "We could heal it."

Nor was there limit to the great healer's optimism. As cloudbanks roll beneath his rhetorical journey - now to create a Palestinian homeland, secure the state of Israel and - hey presto! - sort out the Middle East - Mr Blair's thoughts turn to meteorology. "We could defeat climate change if we chose to. Kyoto is right! "But it's only a start!" Cripes. The Prime Minister then vowed to "create energy without destroying our planet; we could provide work and trade without deforestation".

Time to head home, via a gushing transatlantic tribute to American values. Land rises in the east. Uh-oh. Ireland. "The Unionists must accept . . . the Republicans must show." Musts, shoulds and wills peppered his text like bulletholes in a Kabul ceiling.

As the PM brought his oratorical jetliner into land at Brighton yesterday, he looked exhausted. His audience looked exhausted. The Chancellor looked inscrutable.

Tony Blair had done superlatively what he does best. Talked. He had marched his troops to the top of the hill and must hope Fate does not finish the couplet. And - what the hell - it was only a speech. C'?tait magnifique mais ce n'?tait pas la guerre.



Copyright 2001 Times Newspapers Ltd.

Pretty amusing, Kurt. Know the age of this Matthew Parris author?


For perspective, consider the following bit of verbiage from (much deeper into) the last 4T. This was a Republican radio campaign message from 1940:

When your boy is dying on some battlefield in Europe . . . and he's crying out, "Mother! Mother!" -- don't blame Franklin D. Roosevelt because he sent your boy to war -- blame YOURSELF because YOU sent Franklin D. Roosevelt back to the White House!

(Needless to say, I happen to agree with Mr. Blair in every particular, although to be sure Britain isn't up to the task by herself.)

On 2001-10-03 14:33, Brian Rush wrote:
Pretty amusing, Kurt. Know the age of this Matthew Parris author?

Brian, I'm afraid I don't know how old Mr. Parris is, and don't know where to find out.

(Needless to say, I happen to agree with Mr. Blair in every particular, although to be sure Britain isn't up to the task by herself.)

My only thought when posting that article was that the author seemed to be describing a "Grey Champion." That is one who is seeing the world with a new, sweeping vision, where stern action must be taken to reorder the whole planet.

Perhaps Mr. Blair is being pre-seasonal, but he seems to be thinking in those terms.

Matthew Parris is in his early Fifties. He was a Conservative MP in the Eighties and now writes regularly for the Times as their Commons Sketchwriter

I believe Mr. Parris was involved in the description of homosexuals in the Blair government and was also made known to be of that persuasion himself. HTH

I try to keep my eyes open for articles that have a generational angle. The following article from the Times reports that angry young British Muslims are leaving to join the Taleban in Afghanistan, leaving their elders dismayed.

This article is reproduced for non-commercial, discussion purposes only.

-----

Tuesday October 30 2001

RAGE OF LUTON MUSLIMS WHO WANT TO JOIN TALEBAN
by Tim Reid

THERE is a terrible, visceral rage among Luton's young Muslim brotherhood, a fury so powerful that already dozens of men, all British born and highly educated, have disappeared to fight for the Taleban. It has left parents terrified, the town's mosques full of loathing and yesterday, as The Times discovered first-hand, seen journalists and photographers physically attacked.

Afzal Munir, 25, a newly married business graduate and one of two men from the Bedfordshire town killed in a US rocket attack on Kabul, worshipped at a one-room radical mosque situated in the Call To Islam Bookshop, above an insurance shop in the Dunstable Road. Within a minute of arriving outside the mosque, this Times reporter and cameraman were set upon by a Muslim man, who had rushed, enraged, from a halal butcher shop.

"You insult Islam, you corrupt Islam!" he screamed, smashing the camera to the ground and grabbing another photographer by the throat. "You don't understand how angry we Muslims are!" Five other Muslim men joined him, surrounding us, as he demanded the other camera. Their sense of fury was frightening.

Five hundred yards away, outside Luton's Central Mosque, the third largest in the country, Mohammed Abdullah, a 22-year-old accountant, articulated this rage. His words should serve as a warning to Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, who yesterday said British men joining the Taleban would either die in Afghanistan or face prosecution if they returned here.

"They want to die there," Mr Abdullah said. "These are well-educated people. They have families. I knew Afzal. He loved his wife. But you must understand: all Muslims in Britain view supporting the jihad (holy war) as a religious duty. All of us are ready to sacrifice our lives for our beliefs.I am jealous of Afzal. He has reached paradise."

He continued: "There are people leaving all the time. Not just in Luton, but all over Britain. We, as Muslims, don't perceive ourselves as British Muslims. We are Muslims who live in Britain. All we want to do is go to Afghanistan to defend the honour and sanctity of Islam. I have a wife who is eight months pregnant. But I am thinking of going and helping my Muslim brothers. I read that we are brainwashed. That is nonsense. We are intelligent people and we hate America and the British Government for the bombing."

Behind such talk, which dismays the elderly leaders of Luton's 22,000 Muslims, lurk the seductive, articulate disciples of Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, leader of al-Muhajiroun, the British Islamist organisation that encouraged Mr Munir and Aftab Manzoor, the other dead man, to join the jihad. Sheikh Omar, who is under investigation for allegedly issuing a fatwa against the Pakistan President, General Musharraf, described the two men as "martyrs beyond a doubt". Shahed, the group's Luton leader, admits that he urged the pair to join Osama bin Laden's jihad - but not "physically" - by donating money.

"But if we write about issues, about what is happening to our brothers in Palestine, it can excite people. If I see Tony Blair on TV, and listen to his hypocrisy over Palestine, I want to grab his throat."

The group has been causing problems in Luton since 1994, when Sheikh Omar and his followers tried to take over control of the Central Mosque. It, and other extremist organisations, now recruit outside the town's 50-odd mosques.

Targeting the young, they repeat, again and again, that all obedient Muslims must support bin Laden and his holy war. They are banned from the Central Mosque and the university campus, but Mr Munir attended their Friday meetings. He went to school and college locally, loved cricket and football, and three weeks ago disappeared without telling his wife where he was going.

"He was a quiet, extremely religious boy," Mohammed Sulaimen, president of the Central Mosque, said. "All parents are worried. Many have gone to join the Taleban, perhaps dozens. Afzal, he took his passport, some money, and he goes. This group, it keeps taking people, brainwashing them. They give them these pamphlets. It makes them angry. But what can we do? We can't stop them going."

Syed, a community worker, has visited Muslim communities across the country. "They are disappearing all over Britain. They say they are going down to the shops, and never return," he said.

Shahed and supporters set up a stall in central Luton yesterday, chanting anti-American slogans and carrying banners.

"The Devil is America, and the British Government," said Abdullah Khan, 23. "It is Bush and Blair I blame for Muslims going to fight. They are being provoked to do it by those two Great Satans."



Copyright 2001 Times Newspapers Ltd.

Virgil, did you ever suspect that you were Azerbaijani?

http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories...heyerdahl.html

On 2001-12-14 23:50, Stonewall Patton wrote:
Virgil, did you ever suspect that you were Azerbaijani?

It would be just another part of the 'hood. My Finnish roots are beyond the Urals, my Roma ones come from India, my Magyar roots are from the steppes so it would not surprise me if my Skane-Danish fathers came from Azerbaijan. I am an Eurasian mutt. HTH

Aninteresting piece about German Jewish GI's who were part of the German exiles community.
Many returned after the war and helped to rebuild European society.
http://aufbauonline.com/2000/issue6/pages6/1.html

My sister has lived in Stockholm, Sweden since 1971. I visited there in 1976 and again in 1984. I'm embarassed to admit that I haven't been back since. But my daughter Linda and I are flying over for spring break late next month. Since I'll be staying with real Swedes (my sister's children and friends are all native Swedes and my sister has gone "native" to the extent that she speaks English with an accent!), I'll be able to report whether the mood seems to be 3T or 4T.

By the way, in retrospect, in 1976, when I visited, the mood was 2T. People were protesting American "imperialism" and I'm ashamed to say that I picked up a kafiyeh (not really understanding its significance).

By 1984, the mood had changed. Things American were fashionable, the mood was comfortable, and Reagan was popular (although not with my sister's circle of left-leaning artists -- the arty kind, not Silent adaptives!). Since the Western European saeculum is supposed to be a few years behind the US, my impression of a thoroughly 3T Sweden in 1984 leads credence to my theory that the American 3T began in 1982 or so.

On 2002-02-16 17:40, Jenny Genser wrote:
My sister has lived in Stockholm, Sweden since 1971. I visited there in 1976 and again in 1984. I'm embarassed to admit that I haven't been back since. But my daughter Linda and I are flying over for spring break late next month. Since I'll be staying with real Swedes (my sister's children and friends are all native Swedes and my sister has gone "native" to the extent that she speaks English with an accent!), I'll be able to report whether the mood seems to be 3T or 4T.

Try eating some surstromming if the weather permits an outdoor lunch. That should put you and your daughter into a good mode for dealing with most everything Crisis-like. HTH

On 2002-02-16 18:20, Virgil K. Saari wrote:

On 2002-02-16 17:40, Jenny Genser wrote:
My sister has lived in Stockholm, Sweden since 1971. I visited there in 1976 and again in 1984. I'm embarassed to admit that I haven't been back since. But my daughter Linda and I are flying over for spring break late next month. Since I'll be staying with real Swedes (my sister's children and friends are all native Swedes and my sister has gone "native" to the extent that she speaks English with an accent!), I'll be able to report whether the mood seems to be 3T or 4T.

Try eating some surstromming if the weather permits an outdoor lunch. That should put you and your daughter into a good mode for dealing with most everything Crisis-like. HTH

Inquiring minds want to know what surstromming is. However, given that we will be there during the last week of March, I doubt there will be much dining al fresco. :lol:

I do not think the law allows surstromming to be eaten indoors. The season may be long past (it's at its prime in September) but there were cans in the markets of Northern Sweden when I visited in May.


It is a fermented herring that is "ready" when the can begins to bulge. My relatives tried to keep me away from this delicacy but my cousin's girlfriend gave my parents some to fly back to the USA.


It is served with boiled potatoes, raw onion, and alcohol (beer and vodka in my case) and a flat bread like hardtack. When I opened the can (under water) the aroma put my Finnish spitz up on his hind legs and he twirled much longer than the turns in Swan Lake. It tasted fishy but was fine...my dog, Erkki, was transported to some other place and time. It may be like crack for dogs; the cats avoided the deck for quite some time.


If your sister has gone native she will set you up if at all possible... but it is a north Bothnian taste. HTH

The US and Europe are drifting further apart than ever.
http://argument.independent.co.uk/co...p?story=138967