Tristan wrote:

David Kerin called the generation you called the Romantics the Reform generation.

I know. I'd just got his Birth Dates Matter: Article earlier today. I started reading it and I saw him calling the generation I'd been calling Britons, Romantics. The article is looking interesting, and we seem to have missed the Mid 19th-Century Unraveling start by one year. (He says 1842, I say 1843.) And we both seem to be saying that the Mid-Century Crisis went from 1857 to 1874. It has already started me thinking that I may have to make some slight adjustment in my grouping for the 4 generations that he'd mentioned (Romantics, Reforms, Victorians and Positivists for him, Britons, Romantics, Victorians and first wave Imperials for me) after doing some more research. But, hey, I got time. And, it might be fun.

Stanley '61

As SUPER POWER:

a Hairy-Chested Cowboy or

The Man with the Pearl Earring (and the waxed legs)

Originally Posted by Parag Khanna

Geopolitics is much the same. American neoconservatives such as Robert Kagan
look down upon feminine, Venus-like Europeans, gibing their narcissistic obsession
with building a postmodern, bureaucratic paradise. The United States, by contrast,
supposedly carries the mantle of masculine Mars, boldly imposing freedom in
the world's nastiest neighborhoods. But by cleverly deploying both its hard
power and its sensitive side, the European Union (EU) has become more effective?and
more attractive?than the United States on the catwalk of diplomatic clout.
Meet the real New Europe: the world's first metrosexual superpower.

July/August 2004 number of Foreign Policy

Even as its defenders try to deny the inexorable logic of their own beliefs, the modernist death-culture continues to to ratchet downhill, step by oh-so-logical step. Dr. Singer would be proud.

No doubt the people who defend this will still be denying the meaning of the trend when the 'voluntary' part gets phased out, too.

Belgium Seeks to Extend Euthanasia to Children


Belgium considers euthanasia for children
Wed September 08, 2004 10:08 AM ET


BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Belgian lawmakers belonging to Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt's ruling Flemish Liberal party have introduced a bill seeking to expand the country's controversial euthanasia legislation to include minors.
Senators Jeannine Leduc and Paul Wille said in the bill that terminally ill children and teenagers had as much right to choose when they wanted to die as anyone else.

"Their suffering is as great (and) the situation they face is as intolerable and inhumane," the senators' bill read on Wednesday.

A controversial law decriminalising euthanasia came into force in Belgium in September 2002.

Patients wishing to end their lives must be conscious when the application is made and repeat their request for euthanasia. Their doctor must fill in a form and consult another physician before making a final decision.

Wille and Leduc now also want to include "assisted suicide" in the current legislation as they feel patients often want to end their lives themselves.

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

As SUPER POWER:

a Hairy-Chested Cowboy or

The Man with the Pearl Earring (and the waxed legs)

Originally Posted by Parag Khanna

Geopolitics is much the same. American neoconservatives such as Robert Kagan
look down upon feminine, Venus-like Europeans, gibing their narcissistic obsession
with building a postmodern, bureaucratic paradise. The United States, by contrast,
supposedly carries the mantle of masculine Mars, boldly imposing freedom in
the world's nastiest neighborhoods. But by cleverly deploying both its hard
power and its sensitive side, the European Union (EU) has become more effective?and
more attractive?than the United States on the catwalk of diplomatic clout.
Meet the real New Europe: the world's first metrosexual superpower.

July/August 2004 number of Foreign Policy

:lol: :lol:

"Metrosexual Superpower". Now that's precious!

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Even as its defenders try to deny the inexorable logic of their own beliefs, the modernist death-culture continues to to ratchet downhill, step by oh-so-logical step. Dr. Singer would be proud.

No doubt the people who defend this will still be denying the meaning of the trend when the 'voluntary' part gets phased out, too.

Belgium Seeks to Extend Euthanasia to Children


Belgium considers euthanasia for children
Wed September 08, 2004 10:08 AM ET


BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Belgian lawmakers belonging to Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt's ruling Flemish Liberal party have introduced a bill seeking to expand the country's controversial euthanasia legislation to include minors.
Senators Jeannine Leduc and Paul Wille said in the bill that terminally ill children and teenagers had as much right to choose when they wanted to die as anyone else.

"Their suffering is as great (and) the situation they face is as intolerable and inhumane," the senators' bill read on Wednesday.

A controversial law decriminalising euthanasia came into force in Belgium in September 2002.

Patients wishing to end their lives must be conscious when the application is made and repeat their request for euthanasia. Their doctor must fill in a form and consult another physician before making a final decision.

Wille and Leduc now also want to include "assisted suicide" in the current legislation as they feel patients often want to end their lives themselves.

A bridge too far on the slippery slope.

HopefulCynic68 wrote:

Even as its defenders try to deny the inexorable logic of their own beliefs, the modernist death-culture continues to to ratchet downhill, step by oh-so-logical step. Dr. Singer would be proud.

No doubt the people who defend this will still be denying the meaning of the trend when the 'voluntary' part gets phased out, too.

Belgium Seeks to Extend Euthanasia to Children


Belgium considers euthanasia for children
Wed September 08, 2004 10:08 AM ET


BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Belgian lawmakers belonging to Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt's ruling Flemish Liberal party have introduced a bill seeking to expand the country's controversial euthanasia legislation to include minors.
Senators Jeannine Leduc and Paul Wille said in the bill that terminally ill children and teenagers had as much right to choose when they wanted to die as anyone else.

"Their suffering is as great (and) the situation they face is as intolerable and inhumane," the senators' bill read on Wednesday.

A controversial law decriminalising euthanasia came into force in Belgium in September 2002.

Patients wishing to end their lives must be conscious when the application is made and repeat their request for euthanasia. Their doctor must fill in a form and consult another physician before making a final decision.

Wille and Leduc now also want to include "assisted suicide" in the current legislation as they feel patients often want to end their lives themselves.

Huh? I thought the Nazis and the World War II Crisis has shown that to be a very bad idea? :shock:

Originally Posted by Stanley Alston '61

HopefulCynic68 wrote:

Even as its defenders try to deny the inexorable logic of their own beliefs, the modernist death-culture continues to to ratchet downhill, step by oh-so-logical step. Dr. Singer would be proud.

No doubt the people who defend this will still be denying the meaning of the trend when the 'voluntary' part gets phased out, too.

Belgium Seeks to Extend Euthanasia to Children


Belgium considers euthanasia for children
Wed September 08, 2004 10:08 AM ET


BRUSSELS (Reuters) - Belgian lawmakers belonging to Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt's ruling Flemish Liberal party have introduced a bill seeking to expand the country's controversial euthanasia legislation to include minors.
Senators Jeannine Leduc and Paul Wille said in the bill that terminally ill children and teenagers had as much right to choose when they wanted to die as anyone else.

"Their suffering is as great (and) the situation they face is as intolerable and inhumane," the senators' bill read on Wednesday.

A controversial law decriminalising euthanasia came into force in Belgium in September 2002.

Patients wishing to end their lives must be conscious when the application is made and repeat their request for euthanasia. Their doctor must fill in a form and consult another physician before making a final decision.

Wille and Leduc now also want to include "assisted suicide" in the current legislation as they feel patients often want to end their lives themselves.

Huh? I thought the Nazis and the World War II Crisis has shown that to be a very bad idea? :shock:

Yes, they did show that. But evil rarely if ever presents itself in the exact same guise twice, even when (as always) its peddling the same old, same old.

The crimes of the Nazis, using euthanasia as a tool for 'racial purity', arose out of the background of a larger movement, an intellectual 'fad' that had swept the intelligentsia of the West. In the 20s and 30s, it was possible to find eugenics movements not just in Germany, but all over Western Europe, Canada, Australia, and in America itself. As is the usual case with such intellectual fads, it seemed necessary and self-evident and the culmination of progress at the time.

Just as there was a larger social movement out of which the Nazis produced their perversions, so too today. The 'assisted suicide' effort in places such as Oregan is in fact another current of the same river that led to what is being attempted today in Belgium. The 'geography' of this is quite unsurprising: this social movement is strongest in Western Europe, weakest in the United States, but it runs throughout the West right now, just as the previous fad did 70 years ago. Strauss and Howe themselves noted, in Generations, that the G.I.s had a higher approval rating of euthanasia than other age-groups. It was a sign of the time.

Today, the intellectual fad that has possessed the Western intelligentsia and educated classes is 'personal sovereignty', combined with moral relativism. The 'personal sovereignty' fad sees the culmination of all Progress as the right of the individual to be subject to no limitation or restraint that can't be absolutely proven to be a necessity. Thus euthanasia, adult incest, and pretty much any other bad idea can be defended by those who hold this worldview, though they generally also add that it applies only to adults, since children as seen (correctly) as being unable to exercise judgemetn in such matters, even if adults are so qualified. Moral relativism maintains that no objective, innate standards of morality can exist, all morality is thus necessarily personal, subjective, and changeable.

But it was always quite inevitable that the restriction about children would come under assault, since it can't be defended in the terms of the current fad. Moral relativism denies the idea of any inherent moral limits, literally 'nothing is sacred' and nothing can be. That necessarily includes the restriction on harming children.

For that matter, once the notion that human life is sacred is rejected, and that murder can be an active good is accepted, one is forced to the question of whether 'euthanizing' (a very comfortable euphemism) children is harming them, or whether not doing so is harming them.

Now, just as with the previous fad, most of the effect of this is confined to the intelligentsia and the more naive of the educated classes. The average person regarded the enthusiasms of the eugenicists with the same befuddled mix of anger and laughter that the current fad generates in those same quarters today. But the people most affected were and are disproportionately influential in terms of the market of ideas, and the ideas of the last great fad had real and bloody side effects.

Sometimes, too, such intellectual fads end up getting incorporated into the long-term structure of Western Civilization. If this one manages that, then the next natural step, probably 50+ years down the road, would be the ramping up of such processes to various inconvenient people of various sorts, in favor of those in positions of relative power (younger, older, healthier, richer, etc).

Modernism rejects the moral structure that provided the foundation for the idea that children have a moral right to protection, and without that foundation that last unsupported restraint can not hold. Already, this social impulse has found expression in the musings and writings of Doctor Peter Singer, aka "Dr. Death", of Columbia University. He explicitly argues that human life is not sacred or even inherently valuable, and that the age of abortion should be extended throughout the tenth month of pregnancy.

That's right, he believes and has argued seriously that parents should have the right to murder their children up to 28 days after birth.

He also argues for involuntary euthanasia for some other 'classes' of individuals. In tune with the current 'fad', there isn't anything racist in this argument, it's all individual, and framed in terms of economic cost/benefit thinking.

Very few people agree with him, even of those who subscribe to the tenets that underlie his ideas. But his ideas are rational, natural extensions of those very tenets, and though the current-day intelligentsia doesn't agree with him, they can't quite seem to bring themselves to condemn his ideas as being inherently wrong, either. Which is both revealing, and disturbing. :evil:

Used for informational purposes only:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...tlantic_survey

Survey: Trans-Atlantic Ties Still Strained

Thu Sep 9, 2:23 AM ET

By ROBERT WIELAARD, Associated Press Writer

BRUSSELS, Belgium - The trans-Atlantic divide that opened up over the Iraq (news - web sites) war remains wide, but there is no wholesale erosion of the relationship between Europeans and Americans, according to a survey released Thursday.



European public opposition to the foreign policy of President Bush (news - web sites) is strong and has risen steadily, the third annual Trans-Atlantic Trends poll suggests.


Seventy-six percent of 10,000 Europeans polled in 10 countries disapprove of Bush foreign policies ? up 12 points from 2003, and 20 points from 2002, the survey says.


Bush's foreign policy polled a 51-percent approval rating at home, said the survey, commissioned by the Washington-based German Marshall Fund and the Compagnia di San Paolo, a nonprofit research center in Turin, Italy.


The survey revealed shifting perceptions driven by the Iraq war, yet found that overall, Europeans and Americans value their trans-Atlantic relationship.


"Despite controversy over American foreign policy, 65 percent of Europeans believe Europe and the United States have grown closer or remained about the same in recent years," said the survey, which was carried out by EOS Gallup Europe in June.


Sixty percent of Americans believe the partnership should become closer and 79 percent want the EU to show more global leadership. Almost as many Europeans ? 71 percent ? want the EU to be a superpower like the United States, but half changed their minds when asked if they would agree to increasing European defense spending.


In Europe, 31 percent believe the trans-Atlantic relationship is fading, but that is down from 36 percent last year.


"Americans are more likely than Europeans to perceive a growing estrangement," concluded the survey, which polled 1,000 people each in the United States and 10 European countries: France, Germany, Britain, Italy, Netherlands, Poland and Portugal as well as for the first time, Slovakia, Spain, and Turkey. It had a margin of error of 3 percentage points.


Iraq remains a nasty blip on the screen.


Thirteen months after combat operations ended and Iraq became a daily tableau of terrorism, 80 percent of Europeans asked said the war was not worth the loss of life and other costs, the survey said, noting an increase of 10 points from 2003.


Seventy-three percent of the Europeans ? and 49 percent of the Americans ? believe the war increased the risk of terrorism.


Americans ? who vote in presidential elections in November ? are divided along ideological lines on whether the war in Iraq was worth it, the survey found.


Seventy-nine percent of Republicans -- Bush's party -- polled thought the war was a good thing, 83 percent approved of U.S. troops there and almost 70 percent saw no need to get U.N. approval for future situations like that of Iraq, the survey found.


By contrast, 81 percent of the Democrats polled believed it is essential that the U.N. blessing be obtained in future crises like that in Iraq.


The war has led 58 percent of the Europeans to see strong U.S. global leadership as undesirable, up 9 points from 2003, the findings said.


The survey said Europeans generally are more reluctant than Americans to declare war unilaterally.





"When asked if it is justified to bypass the United Nations (news - web sites) when the vital interests of their country are involved, 59 percent of Americans agreed," said the survey.

In Europe, 44 percent agreed, but the picture varied from one country to the next.

Majorities in Britain, the Netherlands, Slovakia, Poland and Portugal ? which sided with Washington in the Iraq war ? see reasons to go to war without the United Nations' blessing.

Support for unilateral action has risen in France, Germany, the Netherlands, Poland and Portugal in the past year.

Today, Europeans question a strong U.S. leadership role in the world and 58 percent said they want to see a more independent Europe on the international stage.

"If this trend continues, we may be looking at a redefinition of the fundamentals of the trans-Atlantic relationship from a first choice partnership to an optional alliance when mutually convenient," said Craig Kennedy, president of the German Marshall Fund, in a comment on the findings.

Despite the Iraq war, Europeans give Americans an overall approval "thermometer reading" of 55 degrees on a scale of 100, no major change over the last year, signifying Europeans have not developed less favorable feelings toward the United States," said the survey.

France ? a favorite target of Europe-bashers in America_ registered 51 degrees in the United States ? down 4 degrees from 2002, but up 6 degrees from 2003. By comparison, Americans registered a 61-degree rating for Germany, up 5 degrees from 2003.

___

On the Net:

www.transatlantictrends.org

www.gmfus.org

www.compagnia.torino.it

Dutch raids target Islamic extremists; several held by Anthony Deutsch.

Quoting:

"Van Gogh's slaying and the ensuing attacks are only the latest and most dramatic signs of ethnic turmoil here-an uneasiness that mirrors tensions throughout Europe between host and immigrant populations.

"In neighboring Belgium, a recent opinion poll ranked an anti-immigrant party as the most popular in Dutch-speaking Flanders. Far-right parties in Germany appear poised to win seats in Parliament for the first time since World War II. And France is immersed in a heated debate about the government banning Muslim head scarves and other religious symbols from schools.

"But none of those countries has seen the spasm of violence that is racking Holland.

"For the Dutch, it's evidence of a painful loss of innocence they are now tracing to the assassination two years ago of Pim Fortuyn, a gay, populist politician who won a following by campaigning against immigrants, especially Muslims.

Pim Fortuyn

Make of this what you will.

The following is quoted without intention of infringement or profit for purposes of discussion only.

Junk Food Adverts 'Banished During Children's TV'



Junk Food Adverts 'Banished During Children's Tv'

By James Lyons, PA Political Correspondent


Junk food adverts will be banished beyond the 9pm watershed an attempt to fight Britain?s obesity crisis, it emerged tonight.

A ban during children?s TV had been widely expected when the Government produces its health White Paper next week.

But Health Secretary Dr John Reid is set to go further after Ofcom figures showed 70% of viewing by children aged four to 15 takes place between 6pm and 9pm.

Dr Reid will threaten food manufacturers and advertisers with legislation if they fail to agree a voluntary code.

A new food labelling system, possibly using ?traffic light? warnings, will also be proposed.

Products high in fat, salt or sugar are the subject of the TV crackdown.

That would affect far more than the burgers, chocolate, crisps and sugary drinks commonly seen as the culprits.

Salty soup, breakfast cereal and even fish fingers could be caught up in the ban.

?We believe there?s a strong evidence-based cased for action to restrict the advertising and promotion to children of food and drink that are high in fat, salt and sugar,? a government source told one paper.

?To have maximum effect, broadcasting limits need to be complemented by restrictions on advertising at the point of sale, on labels and packaging.?

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Make of this what you will.

The following is quoted without intention of infringement or profit for purposes of discussion only.

Junk Food Adverts 'Banished During Children's TV'



Junk Food Adverts 'Banished During Children's Tv'

Typical Boomer 'Oh someone please think of the childern stuff"

Some Europeans might be critical of Americans increasing overprotection of their childern. However they are guility of the same thing.

Originally Posted by HopefulCynic68

Make of this what you will.

The following is quoted without intention of infringement or profit for purposes of discussion only.

Junk Food Adverts 'Banished During Children's TV'


Junk Food Adverts 'Banished During Children's Tv'

Sounds sensible to me, but then of course, I'm just a silly boomer. 8)

There have been developments that have been happening on the European continent, which shows society there is entering the late stages of 3T. Society is getting more jittery by the day, witness the recent events in the Netherlands and the Ukraine.

The Artist Air Raid Generation are begining to depart in droves from public life and the Prophert Generation of 68' are begining to gain effective control of institutions across the continent. Already most of the top political leaders in Europe are of the Generation of 68'. In a few years the Generation of 68' will domainte the European political leadership.

Originally Posted by Tristan

There have been developments that have been happening on the European continent, which shows society there is entering the late stages of 3T. Society is getting more jittery by the day, witness the recent events in the Netherlands and the Ukraine.

The Artist Air Raid Generation are begining to depart in droves from public life and the Prophert Generation of 68' are begining to gain effective control of institutions across the continent. Already most of the top political leaders in Europe are of the Generation of 68'. In a few years the Generation of 68' will domainte the European political leadership.

I agree.

What would you say the birth years are for EuroBoomers again?

William Jennings Bryan:

Tristan wrote:
There have been developments that have been happening on the European continent, which shows society there is entering the late stages of 3T. Society is getting more jittery by the day, witness the recent events in the Netherlands and the Ukraine.

The Artist Air Raid Generation are begining to depart in droves from public life and the Prophert Generation of 68' are begining to gain effective control of institutions across the continent. Already most of the top political leaders in Europe are of the Generation of 68'. In a few years the Generation of 68' will domainte the European political leadership.


I agree.

What would you say the birth years are for EuroBoomers again?

Well, if you remember my posting of British Generations, I'd listed the British Boomers, or Mods as I call them, as being from 1944-1962. I myself believe that the German Boomers might be having the same number of years as their American and British counterparts, but their with their generation starting in 1942. Why? Remember, 1942 was the highpoint of ascendency for the German Armies, before the defeat of Rommel at El Alamein, the American Military arrival in French North Africa, and the trapping of the Sixth German Army in Stalingrad. As for the rest of Europe (this being Western and Central Europe), I would see the start point for each country Boomers around 1945-46, but, I'm sure the others will check this out. But, I'll be willing to bet that the hard nuts to crack will be the following: France, Poland, Russia. Okay folks, good hunting.

Originally Posted by Stanley Alston '61

I myself believe that the German Boomers might be having the same number of years as their American and British counterparts, but their with their generation starting in 1942. Why? Remember, 1942 was the highpoint of ascendency for the German Armies, before the defeat of Rommel at El Alamein, the American Military arrival in French North Africa, and the trapping of the Sixth German Army in Stalingrad.

I dunno. Things were pretty grim in Germany until around 1950, when the occupied forces left (at least, left West Germany) and they set up their democracy and their economy began to recover. I would have their Prophets not starting until 1946-1947.

Originally Posted by Hermione Granger

Originally Posted by Stanley Alston '61

I myself believe that the German Boomers might be having the same number of years as their American and British counterparts, but their with their generation starting in 1942. Why? Remember, 1942 was the highpoint of ascendency for the German Armies, before the defeat of Rommel at El Alamein, the American Military arrival in French North Africa, and the trapping of the Sixth German Army in Stalingrad.

I dunno. Things were pretty grim in Germany until around 1950, when the occupied forces left (at least, left West Germany) and they set up their democracy and their economy began to recover. I would have their Prophets not starting until 1946-1947.

Agreed, and the French may fall a year or two earlier at most. Now what about the Poles and the Russians? I have no clue about them. :?

Originally Posted by Hermione Granger

I dunno. Things were pretty grim in Germany until around 1950, when the occupied forces left (at least, left West Germany) and they set up their democracy and their economy began to recover. I would have their Prophets not starting until 1946-1947.

Strauss and Howe noted once that Europe's Silent, Boomer and X'er peers are a little bit younger than their US counterparts. Anyway I came to the conculsion that the last high started in 1950 in Europe and the last awakening started with May 1968 (a defining coming of age moment for the Generation of 1968).

Anyway here are my approximate European Generation dates

Air Raid (Artist) c.1927-c.1946
Generation 68' (Prophert) 1947-1964
Generation Bof (Nomad) 1965-1985
Millennial (Hero) 1986-

Slip-sliddin' away, slip-slidden' away...

Make of this what you will.


Slip Sliding Away in the Netherlands

The following is quoted without intention of infringement or profit for purposes of discussion and illustration only.



Netherlands Hospital Euthanizes Babies



Nov 30, 4:24 PM (ET)

By TOBY STERLING



AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) - A hospital in the Netherlands - the first nation to permit euthanasia - recently proposed guidelines for mercy killings of terminally ill newborns, and then made a startling revelation: It has already begun carrying out such procedures, which include administering a lethal dose of sedatives.

The announcement by the Groningen Academic Hospital came amid a growing discussion in Holland on whether to legalize euthanasia on people incapable of deciding for themselves whether they want to end their lives - a prospect viewed with horror by euthanasia opponents and as a natural evolution by advocates.

In August, the main Dutch doctors' association KNMG urged the Health Ministry to create an independent board to review euthanasia cases for terminally ill people "with no free will," including children, the severely mentally retarded and people left in an irreversible coma after an accident.

The Health Ministry is preparing its response, which could come as soon as December, a spokesman said.

Three years ago, the Dutch parliament made it legal for doctors to inject a sedative and a lethal dose of muscle relaxant at the request of adult patients suffering great pain with no hope of relief.

The Groningen Protocol, as the hospital's guidelines have come to be known, would create a legal framework for permitting doctors to actively end the life of newborns deemed to be in similar pain from incurable disease or extreme deformities.

The guideline says euthanasia is acceptable when the child's medical team and independent doctors agree the pain cannot be eased and there is no prospect for improvement, and when parents think it's best.

Examples include extremely premature births, where children suffer brain damage from bleeding and convulsions; and diseases where a child could only survive on life support for the rest of its life, such as severe cases of spina bifida and epidermosis bullosa, a rare blistering illness.

The hospital revealed last month it carried out four such mercy killings in 2003, and reported all cases to government prosecutors. There have been no legal proceedings against the hospital or the doctors.

Roman Catholic organizations and the Vatican have reacted with outrage to the announcement, and U.S. euthanasia opponents contend the proposal shows the Dutch have lost their moral compass.

"The slippery slope in the Netherlands has descended already into a vertical cliff," said Wesley J. Smith, a prominent California-based critic, in an e-mail to The Associated Press.

Child euthanasia remains illegal everywhere. Experts say doctors outside Holland do not report cases for fear of prosecution.

"As things are, people are doing this secretly and that's wrong," said Eduard Verhagen, head of Groningen's children's clinic. "In the Netherlands we want to expose everything, to let everything be subjected to vetting."

According to the Justice Ministry, four cases of child euthanasia were reported to prosecutors in 2003. Two were reported in 2002, seven in 2001 and five in 2000. All the cases in 2003 were reported by Groningen, but some of the cases in other years were from other hospitals.

Groningen estimated the protocol would be applicable in about 10 cases per year in the Netherlands, a country of 16 million people.

Since the introduction of the Dutch law, Belgium has also legalized euthanasia, while in France, legislation to allow doctor-assisted suicide is currently under debate. In the United States, the state of Oregon is alone in allowing physician-assisted suicide, but this is under constant legal challenge.

However, experts acknowledge that doctors euthanize routinely in the United States and elsewhere, but that the practice is hidden.

"Measures that might marginally extend a child's life by minutes or hours or days or weeks are stopped. This happens routinely, namely, every day," said Lance Stell, professor of medical ethics at Davidson College in Davidson, N.C., and staff ethicist at Carolinas Medical Center in Charlotte, N.C. "Everybody knows that it happens, but there's a lot of hypocrisy. Instead, people talk about things they're not going to do."

More than half of all deaths occur under medical supervision, so it's really about management and method of death, Stell said.

Originally Posted by Tristan

Originally Posted by Hermione Granger

I dunno. Things were pretty grim in Germany until around 1950, when the occupied forces left (at least, left West Germany) and they set up their democracy and their economy began to recover. I would have their Prophets not starting until 1946-1947.

Strauss and Howe noted once that Europe's Silent, Boomer and X'er peers are a little bit younger than their US counterparts. Anyway I came to the conculsion that the last high started in 1950 in Europe and the last awakening started with May 1968 (a defining coming of age moment for the Generation of 1968).

Anyway here are my approximate European Generation dates

Air Raid (Artist) c.1927-c.1946
Generation 68' (Prophert) 1947-1964
Generation Bof (Nomad) 1965-1985
Millennial (Hero) 1986-

I would support the idea that these dates could be slightly different in each nation, but not by much, and Britain (and Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) is probably stuck structurally between the American and European cycles (as they are in many other ways!).

Mods (British Prophets) probably started and ended a little earlier than 68er's (Continental Prophets).

Likewise, British Xers probably started a little earlier than the Continental Bofs and 89er's, and British Millennials and the cross-channel Eer's (so-called "Generation E" for the first generation to come of age in a "Europe") are very likely a couple of years out of synch.

I also agree with the recent posting stating that events in Holland and Ukraine demonstrate that Europe is in the jittery, teetering end of a 3T now as well as we are. We may end up back in synch.

Originally Posted by William Jennings Bryan

Originally Posted by Tristan

Originally Posted by Hermione Granger

I dunno. Things were pretty grim in Germany until around 1950, when the occupied forces left (at least, left West Germany) and they set up their democracy and their economy began to recover. I would have their Prophets not starting until 1946-1947.

Strauss and Howe noted once that Europe's Silent, Boomer and X'er peers are a little bit younger than their US counterparts. Anyway I came to the conculsion that the last high started in 1950 in Europe and the last awakening started with May 1968 (a defining coming of age moment for the Generation of 1968).

Anyway here are my approximate European Generation dates

Air Raid (Artist) c.1927-c.1946
Generation 68' (Prophert) 1947-1964
Generation Bof (Nomad) 1965-1985
Millennial (Hero) 1986-

I would support the idea that these dates could be slightly different in each nation, but not by much, and Britain (and Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) is probably stuck structurally between the American and European cycles (as they are in many other ways!).

Mods (British Prophets) probably started and ended a little earlier than 68er's (Continental Prophets).

Likewise, British Xers probably started a little earlier than the Continental Bofs and 89er's, and British Millennials and the cross-channel Eer's (so-called "Generation E" for the first generation to come of age in a "Europe") are very likely a couple of years out of synch.

I also agree with the recent posting stating that events in Holland and Ukraine demonstrate that Europe is in the jittery, teetering end of a 3T now as well as we are. We may end up back in synch.

I will surprised if the West doesn't fall into synch, given the world-view shared by many of the Xers and Millenials. To someone rooted in a 'place' culture, it's a bit odd to see them exist on-line, and often off-line, in a culture bubble that trancends geography. They relate to others of their their 'type' or those with similar interests, regardless of where or who they are.

IM is a marvelous thing, and no, I never use it.

We aren't in 'citizen of the world' mode yet, but it's coming.

Hermione Granger wrote:

Stanley Alston '61 wrote:
I myself believe that the German Boomers might be having the same number of years as their American and British counterparts, but their with their generation starting in 1942. Why? Remember, 1942 was the highpoint of ascendency for the German Armies, before the defeat of Rommel at El Alamein, the American Military arrival in French North Africa, and the trapping of the Sixth German Army in Stalingrad.

I dunno. Things were pretty grim in Germany until around 1950, when the occupied forces left (at least, left West Germany) and they set up their democracy and their economy began to recover. I would have their Prophets not starting until 1946-1947.

You do have a point about how grim things were, but if I recall my German history, the really grim time was the first year after the war (1945-46). Oh, and for those of you who might be interested there's a new book that happen to talk the first year after the war in Germany. I'd only seen a review for it in the History Book Club, but it seems there was a short-lived resistance to the Allied Occupation, something that's not normally talked about when were told about post-World War II History. A little cannon fooder, hmm?

Stanley '61

Originally Posted by Stanley Alston '61

Hermione Granger wrote:

Stanley Alston '61 wrote:
I myself believe that the German Boomers might be having the same number of years as their American and British counterparts, but their with their generation starting in 1942. Why? Remember, 1942 was the highpoint of ascendency for the German Armies, before the defeat of Rommel at El Alamein, the American Military arrival in French North Africa, and the trapping of the Sixth German Army in Stalingrad.

I dunno. Things were pretty grim in Germany until around 1950, when the occupied forces left (at least, left West Germany) and they set up their democracy and their economy began to recover. I would have their Prophets not starting until 1946-1947.

You do have a point about how grim things were, but if I recall my German history, the really grim time was the first year after the war (1945-46). Oh, and for those of you who might be interested there's a new book that happen to talk the first year after the war in Germany. I'd only seen a review for it in the History Book Club, but it seems there was a short-lived resistance to the Allied Occupation, something that's not normally talked about when were told about post-World War II History. A little cannon fooder, hmm?

Stanley '61

Did the resistance center in Fallujaheimburg?

Peter Gibbons wrote:

I would support the idea that these dates could be slightly different in each nation, but not by much, and Britain (and Canada, Australia, and New Zealand) is probably stuck structurally between the American and European cycles (as they are in many other ways!).

Mods (British Prophets) probably started and ended a little earlier than 68er's (Continental Prophets).

Likewise, British Xers probably started a little earlier than the Continental Bofs and 89er's, and British Millennials and the cross-channel Eer's (so-called "Generation E" for the first generation to come of age in a "Europe") are very likely a couple of years out of synch.

I also agree with the recent posting stating that events in Holland and Ukraine demonstrate that Europe is in the jittery, teetering end of a 3T now as well as we are. We may end up back in synch.

Well, I wrote this a long time ago on Britain's generational lineup, although I might have to make a slight adjustments on the 4 18th Century born generations (as in 2-3-or all 4 might each lose a year and get bumped forward in time.), but here is what I'd put down back in July.

Stanley '61 wrote (a long time ago):

I have been reading David Kaiser's essay called
Neither Marxist nor Whig: The Great Atlantic Crises, 1774-1962 It talks a lot about Europe's turnings since the American revoultion and how it has affected European politics. I agree with him on a lot of points and disagree on others, however it is a must read.

I have read part of the article and I find it interesting that David have
agreed with some of the information that I use to post here in the past.
Although I don't know if I be prepared to call William Pitt's the elder's
prophet generation Augustans like their American counterparts yet, but
I would be willing if convinced.

Anyway, hi guys, for those who'll remember me.

I'm going to leave you guys with a couple of things. For those of you who might recall an old promise, I was going to see if I could find the generational set up for the English/British. For the most part I think I have, and here is it:

English Puritan (Prophet) - 1588-1617
English Cavaliers (Nomad) - 1618-1650
English Glorious (Hero) - 1651-1676
Hanoverians (Artist) - 1677-1701
Evangelicals (Prophet) - 1702-1727
Radicals (Nomad) - 1728-1754
Britons (Hero) - 1755-1780
Romantics (Artist) - 1781-1800
Victorians (Prophet) - 1801-1824
Imperials (Nomad/Hero) - 1825-1852
Edwardians (Artist) - 1853-1869
Ecumenicals (Prophet) - 1870-1886
Contemptibles (Nomad) - 1887-1905
Fews (Hero) - 1906-1926
Blitzs (Artist) - 1927-1943
Mods (Prophet) - 1944-1962
Hooligans (Nomad) - 1963-1981
Millenials (Hero) - 1982-????
New Artists (Artists) - ????-????

As for what's happening in the Ukraine, it does look third turning-ish. The question is, is it? :?:

Stanley '61