"Is homosexuality a sin? Minister for Equality refuses to rule it out."

Originally Posted by Ben Russell, UK Political Correspondent

"The newly appointed government minister responsible for equality is facing controversy after she refused to say whether she believed homosexuality was a sin."

Do winged monkeys exist? Are they wicked?

Transportation Secretary Norm Minetta refuses to rule it out.

Nine out of ten midlisted aging rock stars agree: trade not aid is the answer

Originally Posted by Bob Geldof

"Most commentators now anticipate the failure of the current round of World Trade Organisation talks. They are not the only ones. I have yet to meet a single senior politician in any country who believes that they will succeed, yet they feel they must soldier on with negotiations in the increasingly diminishing hope that they may make a breakthrough. Should they fail, it will be a massive blow to the world economy which will result in all sorts of political and economic repercussions, none beneficial to our countries or our individual lives."

Just admit it man. You thought "Do They Know It's Christmas Time?" was bitchen, especially that 12" dance remix.

Series of racist attacks alarms Belgium by John Ward Anderson

Article discusses skinhead attacks against people from Middle East and Africa. Discusses opposition to "radical Islamists who don't accept integration and won't assimilate...."

Brown aide: we will lose next election.

Originally Posted by Patrick Wintour, genius

"One of Gordon Brown's closest aides has warned that Labour on its current course will lose the next election and be out of power for 15 years, since voters have lost trust in the party and will no longer listen to its message."

Labour in credibility row! Is Brown sniffing underthings, compulsively? Is the ghost of Mr. Thatcher stalking lavatories in Slough? When is a crisis a crisis? This American has questions.

I am reading a fascinating book about Florence Nightengale and her very unusual family.

Florence Nightengale seems like such a Prophet, and her parents seem to have Silent written all over them. However, I'm wondering how the British dates line up with ours.

Florence Nightengale was born in 1820, which was the tail end of the Transcendental generation over this side of the pond. Her parents were born around 1790.

Can someone refer me to the British generations?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I am reading a fascinating book about Florence Nightengale and her very unusual family.

Florence Nightengale seems like such a Prophet, and her parents seem to have Silent written all over them. However, I'm wondering how the British dates line up with ours.

Florence Nightengale was born in 1820, which was the tail end of the Transcendental generation over this side of the pond. Her parents were born around 1790.

Can someone refer me to the British generations?

Thanks.

I remember David Kerin doing some work on British Generations some time back and according to him people born in 1820 were part of the Victorian Generation who were prophets and people born in 1790 were part of the reform generation who were Artists.

I have done a little reading into Western European history of the earlier part of the 19th century. My impression is that the French Revolution was a 4T, 1789 probably being the climax (and what a climax), The Napleonic wars were most probably an unusual High Era when the institutions established by the French revolution were spread throughout Europe. The 1820's and 1830's were an define awakening period, the 1840's and 1850's were probably an unravelling period. Western Europe probably did have an longer 4T, but still probably a short one than the USA did in the 1860's and early 1870's maybe with a real Hero generation.

European history after say 1870 is much clearer, from c.1872-c.1890 was an high, c.1890-c.1910 was an awakening period, c.1910-c.1930 was an unraveling, c.1930-c.1950 was an crisis, c.1950-1968 was a high, 1968-1988 was an awakening and 1988-now is an unraveling period. Western Europe for centuries has been too interconnected especially in the educated classes to have separate saeculums for each nation. Various movements in European history since the 16th century have happened at pretty much the same time.

Originally Posted by Tristan

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I am reading a fascinating book about Florence Nightengale and her very unusual family.

Florence Nightengale seems like such a Prophet, and her parents seem to have Silent written all over them. However, I'm wondering how the British dates line up with ours.

Florence Nightengale was born in 1820, which was the tail end of the Transcendental generation over this side of the pond. Her parents were born around 1790.

Can someone refer me to the British generations?

Thanks.

I remember David Kerin doing some work on British Generations some time back and according to him people born in 1820 were part of the Victorian Generation who were prophets and people born in 1790 were part of the reform generation who were Artists.

I have done a little reading into Western European history of the earlier part of the 19th century. My impression is that the French Revolution was a 4T, 1789 probably being the climax (and what a climax), The Napleonic wars were most probably an unusual High Era when the institutions established by the French revolution were spread throughout Europe. The 1820's and 1830's were an define awakening period, the 1840's and 1850's were probably an unravelling period. Western Europe probably did have an longer 4T, but still probably a short one than the USA did in the 1860's and early 1870's maybe with a real Hero generation.

European history after say 1870 is much clearer, from c.1872-c.1890 was an high, c.1890-c.1910 was an awakening period, c.1910-c.1930 was an unraveling, c.1930-c.1950 was an crisis, c.1950-1968 was a high, 1968-1988 was an awakening and 1988-now is an unraveling period. Western Europe for centuries has been too interconnected especially in the educated classes to have separate saeculums for each nation. Various movements in European history since the 16th century have happened at pretty much the same time.

Tristan,
Your post 1870 years look spot on. It is easier to see more defineable turnings in Europe scince 1870. I see those parts of Europe that have Catholic or Protestant majorities as being on the same cycle scince the reformation awakening. The eastern, majority Orthodox parts of Europe have a more fragmented pattern.

It is highly likely that scince the Western Europe-America cycle will go 4t soon and China will be 4t soon after, the pull of the interplay between two powerful cultures in these times of the internet and easy global communication in a 4t may re-orent the globe onto one cycle. That could make things quite dangerous. Even if it doesn't happen then, I can't see the world getting to the 4t of 2100 without reaching a point of a global cycle.

I haven't seen many posts about the UK foiling of the planned terrorist attacks on flights departing from Heathrow and headed towards the US.

Any thoughts of the significance of the plot and it's discovery?

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

I haven't seen many posts about the UK foiling of the planned terrorist attacks on flights departing from Heathrow and headed towards the US.

Any thoughts of the significance of the plot and it's discovery?

Sounds like policework and intelligence rather than blow up the village and its domesticated animals, all very 3T that.

You'll all be 'nekkid' very so on your heavier-than-air flights of fancy, :arrow: :arrow: :arrow: It'll be as a sauna without the vihta.

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Any thoughts of the significance of the plot and it's discovery?

- The timing is very convenient. Nothing else has been on the news today at all.
- The 'suspects' were arrested under the British anti-terrorism act, which allows them to be held in a hole for a full month before charges are brought.
- 'Peroxide-based' explosives? With enough energy to bring down an aircraft in quantities hand-carriable by two men (the purported size of the 'terrorist teams')?
- The effectiveness of a 'liquid ban' with well-publicised exceptions? (Juice is permitted if it is tasted in front of security -- peroxide, for example, is far from instantly fatal if ingested...). Gosh this must be a threat the Powers That Be take really seriously .

- Why is the word of known liars being taken as Holy Writ all of a sudden?

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Originally Posted by The Wonkette

Any thoughts of the significance of the plot and it's discovery?

- The timing is very convenient. Nothing else has been on the news today at all.
- The 'suspects' were arrested under the British anti-terrorism act, which allows them to be held in a hole for a full month before charges are brought.
- 'Peroxide-based' explosives? With enough energy to bring down an aircraft in quantities hand-carriable by two men (the purported size of the 'terrorist teams')?
- The effectiveness of a 'liquid ban' with well-publicised exceptions? (Juice is permitted if it is tasted in front of security -- peroxide, for example, is far from instantly fatal if ingested...). Gosh this must be a threat the Powers That Be take really seriously .

- Why is the word of known liars being taken as Holy Writ all of a sudden?

I am reluctant to admit it, but you're right. Disturbing.

I'll take this more seriously when they ban electronic devices from the transport system as they (~berries, laptops, mobile telephones, pagers, etc.) can be used to signal switches in explosives.


The gel/liquid/goo ban is a helpful psychological device such as that of ration coupons to "bring the war to the public's attention" during the last Crisis in the U.S.A. But, will a Commercial Republic in A.D. 2006 permit it citizens to idle so many hours without electronic devices?

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

I'll take this more seriously when they ban electronic devices from the transport system as they (~berries, laptops, mobile telephones, pagers, etc.) can be used to signal switches in explosives.

I agree with Mr Saari.

Your suspicions are pretty much confirmed.

The timeline is pretty clear. Bush knew these arrests were coming last weekend. Lieberman lost tuesday night. Cheeney basically called the Lamont win a 'terrorist victory' wednesday and thursday the arrests occured as if on cue. I have no doubt the Blair government will try to help the Republicans just before this November's midterms if they can.

Originally Posted by Pink Splice

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

I'll take this more seriously when they ban electronic devices from the transport system as they (~berries, laptops, mobile telephones, pagers, etc.) can be used to signal switches in explosives.

I agree with Mr Saari.

Keith Olbermann said the same thing last night on "Countdown."

:shock:
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:shock:

(I was really expecting to be the only kook out there, and to come back today to several pages of vitriol...)

:shock:

Originally Posted by Justin '77

:shock:
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:shock:
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:shock:

(I was really expecting to be the only kook out there, and to come back today to several pages of vitriol...)

:shock:

That is what makes blatantly lying to the public, like Dubya has done, so incredibly heinous. It make us all wretched cynics. It kills public trust. It absolutely undermines democracy. We will now question what is actually real, because our trust has been betrayed.

This one thing HC, for all of his Ptolemically epicyclic, Scholastic rationalizing, cannot understand. And it is what has made the Neoconservative so incredibly damaging and dangerous. Their entire ontology is based on lying. Read about the philosophy of Leo Strauss, and take into account that Max Shachtman, and others of the Neocon Pantheon, started as Trotskyites. Neoconservatism is based on all of this, something it's rank-in-file adherents, like Marc Lamb, either are ignorant of or blithely discount.

Originally Posted by Justin '77

:shock:
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:shock:
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:shock:

(I was really expecting to be the only kook out there, and to come back today to several pages of vitriol...)

:shock:

You can go build a cricket on that Bartolomeo Rastrelli-designed, Baroque-style, green-and-white palace with 1,786 doors and 1,945 windows in the Venice of the North! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: You keeper of odd knowledge, you! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Originally Posted by Justin '77

:shock:
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:shock:
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:shock:

(I was really expecting to be the only kook out there, and to come back today to several pages of vitriol...)

:shock:

It's become kookery to swallow "conventional" wisdom without question. :shock: :wink:

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Justin '77

:shock:
..
:shock:
..
:shock:

(I was really expecting to be the only kook out there, and to come back today to several pages of vitriol...)

:shock:

You can go build a cricket on that Bartolomeo Rastrelli-designed, Baroque-style, green-and-white palace with 1,786 doors and 1,945 windows in the Venice of the North! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: You keeper of odd knowledge, you! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Do you know how long the line is to get into the Hermitage? Unless you grease palms, you can wait for half a day just to get inside.

Now Peterhof, on the other hand, is a short boat-ride away, and actually has grounds you can walk if lines are not your thing...

Originally Posted by Justin '77

Originally Posted by Virgil K. Saari

Originally Posted by Justin '77

:shock:
..
:shock:
..
:shock:

(I was really expecting to be the only kook out there, and to come back today to several pages of vitriol...)

:shock:

You can go build a cricket on that Bartolomeo Rastrelli-designed, Baroque-style, green-and-white palace with 1,786 doors and 1,945 windows in the Venice of the North! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: You keeper of odd knowledge, you! :arrow: :arrow: :arrow:

Do you know how long the line is to get into the Hermitage? Unless you grease palms, you can wait for half a day just to get inside.

Now Peterhof, on the other hand, is a short boat-ride away, and actually has grounds you can walk if lines are not your thing...

Would a "real" American even have such intimate knowledge of an un-American city? :?: :?: :?:

I'll bet you have some knowledge of the dram shop laws in the Antipodes! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

*Bump*

On the topic of the British equivalent of our Revolutionary War 4T, I think that the British 4T started when the France joined the conflict on our side in 1778 and climaxed with the Battle of Trafalgar, which eliminated any threat of Napoleon invading the UK, in 1805. This seems to be the UK's last 27-year long "Old-type" turing.

I've changed my mind, Europe seems to have has it's shift to 18-year turnings at the same time the US did, and had it's own equivalent of our Civil War Anomaly)

My hypothesis for the last three Western European saeculae:

Liberal Revolutions Saeculum
1T: 1805-1830
2T: 1830-1848
3T: 1848-1858 (trunicated turning)
4T: 1858-1871 (trunicated turning)

Great Powers Saeculum
1T: 1871-1890
2T: 1890-1910
3T: 1910-1931
4T: 1931-1950

Millenial Saeculum
1T: 1950-1968
2T: 1968-1989
3T: 1989-

Originally Posted by Odin

I've changed my mind, Europe seems to have has it's shift to 18-year turnings at the same time the US did, and had it's own equivalent of our Civil War Anomaly)

My hypothesis for the last three Western European saeculae:

Liberal Revolutions Saeculum
1T: 1805-1830
2T: 1830-1848
3T: 1848-1858 (trunicated turning)
4T: 1858-1871 (trunicated turning)

Great Powers Saeculum
1T: 1871-1890
2T: 1890-1910
3T: 1910-1931
4T: 1931-1950

Millenial Saeculum
1T: 1950-1968
2T: 1968-1989
3T: 1989-

yes. A thought. I was just reading Lois McMaster Bujold's "The Sharing Knife Volume 1" and thought "This really feels like early 19th Century" and started wondering at the difference between "early" and "mid/late 19th Century" and came up with two serious differences.

The railroads spreading to everywhere.
The telegraph.

Transportation and communication. I don't know quite how those could shift the saeculum, and I may be imagining that the dog's nose causes his tail, but for what it's worth.

Originally Posted by The Grey Badger

yes. A thought. I was just reading Lois McMaster Bujold's "The Sharing Knife Volume 1" and thought "This really feels like early 19th Century" and started wondering at the difference between "early" and "mid/late 19th Century" and came up with two serious differences.

The railroads spreading to everywhere.
The telegraph.

Transportation and communication. I don't know quite how those could shift the saeculum, and I may be imagining that the dog's nose causes his tail, but for what it's worth.

I too believe that the world's "moving faster" due to the rise of new transportation and communication technologies during the 19th century accounts for the shift from mostly old style long turnings to the shorter ones that seem more common in the last couple of saeculiums.