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Thread: Western Europe - Page 32







Post#776 at 01-01-2008 03:14 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Netherlands

A Dutch political leader Geert Wilders is about to release a film about the Quran, whom he compares to Mein Kampf and advocated banning it's sale. That the Dutch Queen spoke out against him and his party in her Christmas Address. Geert Wilders is at the moment the most popular politican in the Netherlands and his party would win 24 seats if an election was held today.

If the film gets released later in the month they are expecting riots in the Muslim neighbourhoods of Netherlands and somebody will try and kill Geert Wilders.

Here is an short overview of what I am talking about

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/815
Last edited by Tristan; 01-01-2008 at 03:18 AM.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#777 at 01-02-2008 02:00 AM by sean '90 [at joined Jul 2007 #posts 1,625]
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I personally think Geert wilders is an idiot.







Post#778 at 01-15-2008 11:05 PM by bobc [at joined Jul 2001 #posts 29]
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Quote Originally Posted by sean '90 View Post
I personally think Geert wilders is an idiot.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/27/in...in&oref=slogin

That the native population of the Netherlands (as well as Flanders) the only place in the world with a Dutch culture is starting to flee, and be replaced by a culture that exists in many other places in the world, makes Geert Wilders an idiot? How?
Bob C.







Post#779 at 01-19-2008 12:43 AM by sean '90 [at joined Jul 2007 #posts 1,625]
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Quote Originally Posted by bobc View Post
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/27/in...in&oref=slogin

That the native population of the Netherlands (as well as Flanders) the only place in the world with a Dutch culture is starting to flee, and be replaced by a culture that exists in many other places in the world, makes Geert Wilders an idiot? How?
Well, this is the first I've heard of them fleeing. Why he doesn't advocate that the Dutch stay and fight for Queen and country against the terrorist van Gogh muredering horde of evil Muslim terrorists.







Post#780 at 01-19-2008 08:19 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Geert Wilders is my hero

Quote Originally Posted by sean '90 View Post
I personally think Geert wilders is an idiot.
Geert Wilders is my hero, because he has the gut to stand up what is happening in his country, when few others in political class are willing to.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#781 at 01-20-2008 03:27 AM by Cynic Hero '86 [at Upstate New York joined Jul 2006 #posts 1,285]
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Quote Originally Posted by sean '90 View Post
Well, this is the first I've heard of them fleeing. Why he doesn't advocate that the Dutch stay and fight for Queen and country against the terrorist van Gogh muredering horde of evil Muslim terrorists.
The war against terrorism is floundering because westerners refuse to take the gloves off and pursue a policy of terror against terror. A reprisal policy against islamist supporters would achieve great lengths towards keeping the islamists cowed.







Post#782 at 01-20-2008 03:50 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Quote Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86 View Post
The war against terrorism is floundering because westerners refuse to take the gloves off and pursue a policy of terror against terror. A reprisal policy against islamist supporters would achieve great lengths towards keeping the islamists cowed.
I agree might I add a little more, I believe we need to define this conflict as a Jihad by Muslims who want to implement Sharia law. We have to put our feet down and say Sharia law not now, not ever. Sharia fundamentally conflicts with Western values of man-made law and the equality of all before the law. GW Bush put it quite simply once 'You are either for us or against us'.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#783 at 01-20-2008 10:14 PM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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I do not believe Europe is going to 'suffer' less than the USA in the 4T to come especially with the great devaluation.

It's Pensions "Social Security" crisis is going to even more severe, Demographic projections are showing Europe's population is going to grey more and faster than the USA's. Plus it's birth rates for decades has been much lower than the USA's (The total fertility rate in EU is 1.52 vs 2.09 in USA). I am going to be pretty pessimistic here, however I think I am right the great devaluation is going to destroy the welfare state and European Union, those out of work will at best eating out of soup kitchens. I expect parties like the British National Party to thrive and take over power leading to a pogrom of the Muslim communities and deportation of 'foreigners'. It will be all pretty nasty.

I expect Europe to become more like America not the other way around, a collapse in the welfare state will likely bring a reinsurgence's of Christianity, more like the benefitcites will be the Evangelical/Pentecostal churches, but the traditional churches will enjoy a upswing in adherence as well. I see this happening because the churches will take over much of the welfare services that the state does in Europe.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#784 at 01-21-2008 12:43 AM by Cynic Hero '86 [at Upstate New York joined Jul 2006 #posts 1,285]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
I do not believe Europe is going to 'suffer' less than the USA in the 4T to come especially with the great devaluation.

It's Pensions "Social Security" crisis is going to even more severe, Demographic projections are showing Europe's population is going to grey more and faster than the USA's. Plus it's birth rates for decades has been much lower than the USA's (The total fertility rate in EU is 1.52 vs 2.09 in USA). I am going to be pretty pessimistic here, however I think I am right the great devaluation is going to destroy the welfare state and European Union, those out of work will at best eating out of soup kitchens. I expect parties like the British National Party to thrive and take over power leading to a pogrom of the Muslim communities and deportation of 'foreigners'. It will be all pretty nasty.

I expect Europe to become more like America not the other way around, a collapse in the welfare state will likely bring a reinsurgence's of Christianity, more like the benefitcites will be the Evangelical/Pentecostal churches, but the traditional churches will enjoy a upswing in adherence as well. I see this happening because the churches will take over much of the welfare services that the state does in Europe.
There is also the threat of russian/eastern bloc invasion. The islamists are generally just puppets and skirmishers for the KGB. There is much evidence that the mideast terror networks were first created by the soviets. The is much evidence that the Iranian revolution was funded by the KGB. Also most of the anti-establishment movements of the boomer awakening were organized by the KGB behind the scenes.







Post#785 at 01-21-2008 02:18 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Quote Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86 View Post
There is also the threat of russian/eastern bloc invasion. The islamists are generally just puppets and skirmishers for the KGB. There is much evidence that the mideast terror networks were first created by the soviets. The is much evidence that the Iranian revolution was funded by the KGB. Also most of the anti-establishment movements of the boomer awakening were organized by the KGB behind the scenes.
I can't see that happening. The Russians are at worst cynically using the Islamists, you have to also remember Russia has faced domestic Islamist violence (including the Beslan shootings).
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#786 at 01-23-2008 06:43 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/2008...-changing.html

The Dutch are losing faith in their monarchy.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#787 at 01-23-2008 10:48 AM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/2008...-changing.html

The Dutch are losing faith in their monarchy.
Young Sean '90 is going to be appalled.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#788 at 01-23-2008 11:54 AM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by Cynic Hero '86 View Post
There is also the threat of russian/eastern bloc invasion. The islamists are generally just puppets and skirmishers for the KGB. There is much evidence that the mideast terror networks were first created by the soviets. The is much evidence that the Iranian revolution was funded by the KGB. Also most of the anti-establishment movements of the boomer awakening were organized by the KGB behind the scenes.
The KGB no longer exists. It was transformed into the FSB, and Marxist ideology no longer drives the FSB. The FSB has shown no desire to spread any ideology abroad, although posing an obvious danger to legitimate Russian interests or the lives of Russians is a good way to get killed.

Most countries have more to fear from the Russian Mafia than from any expansionism of the Russian government. I concede that the Russian Mafia is more dangerous than the KGB ever was because it corrupts commerce and governments even more effectively than the KGB ever did.

If you are going to discuss dangerous conspiracies and organizations, then keep your attention on real ones instead of phantoms and ghosts.
Last edited by pbrower2a; 01-23-2008 at 11:58 AM. Reason: url







Post#789 at 01-23-2008 05:02 PM by catfishncod [at The People's Republic of Cambridge & Possum Town, MS joined Apr 2005 #posts 984]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
The KGB no longer exists. It was transformed into the FSB, and Marxist ideology no longer drives the FSB. The FSB has shown no desire to spread any ideology abroad, although posing an obvious danger to legitimate Russian interests or the lives of Russians is a good way to get killed.
No, it just wants to spread its *power* abroad, and f*** ideology.
Most countries have more to fear from the Russian Mafia than from any expansionism of the Russian government. I concede that the Russian Mafia is more dangerous than the KGB ever was because it corrupts commerce and governments even more effectively than the KGB ever did.
I'm glad you can tell where the Russian government, the KGB/FSB, and the Russian Mafia begin and end. I can't. They're the political tripod of modern Russia, and no matter what happens internally, they appear to work as a unit outside the Motherland.
'81, 30/70 X/Millie, trying to live in both Red and Blue America... "Catfish 'n Cod"







Post#790 at 01-23-2008 07:25 PM by Virgil K. Saari [at '49er, north of the Mesabi Mountains joined Jun 2001 #posts 7,835]
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Lightbulb One would have thought...

Quote Originally Posted by catfishncod View Post
No, it just wants to spread its *power* abroad, and f*** ideology.

I'm glad you can tell where the Russian government, the KGB/FSB, and the Russian Mafia begin and end. I can't. They're the political tripod of modern Russia, and no matter what happens internally, they appear to work as a unit outside the Motherland.
... at the end of the last High in Our Commercial Republic one knew where the boundaries of the Kennedy Administration and the Central Intelligence Agency and the Organized Criminals exactly sat.

When it came to the Progressive Government of the island off the Florida coast, we came to understand that things were a wee bit more murky.


And then there was the Crisis case of "That Man's" administration, the O.S.S. and the south Italian and Sicilian "brotherhoods" and their Commercial Republican "cousins".
Last edited by Virgil K. Saari; 01-23-2008 at 07:30 PM.







Post#791 at 01-24-2008 05:53 PM by TimWalker [at joined May 2007 #posts 6,368]
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alternative money

"In lands of the Euro a growing number of local currencies"







Post#792 at 01-24-2008 10:20 PM by pbrower2a [at "Michigrim" joined May 2005 #posts 15,014]
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Quote Originally Posted by catfishncod View Post
I'm glad you can tell where the Russian government, the KGB/FSB, and the Russian Mafia begin and end. I can't. They're the political tripod of modern Russia, and no matter what happens internally, they appear to work as a unit outside the Motherland.
It is difficult, if not impossible. Vladimir Putin's ideology is murky... maybe it's whatever he finds convenient at the time.







Post#793 at 01-25-2008 05:15 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Quote Originally Posted by The Wonkette View Post
Young Sean '90 is going to be appalled.
I do not care

Imo, I'm an Republican or at the very least believe if there is a monarchy it should be only constitutional, in that I believe monarchy is a left over from the feudal age.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#794 at 01-25-2008 05:17 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Quote Originally Posted by pbrower2a View Post
It is difficult, if not impossible. Vladimir Putin's ideology is murky... maybe it's whatever he finds convenient at the time.
If it wasn't for the limitations of the Russian constitution, Putin would consider making himself Tsar or at least President of Life.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#795 at 01-25-2008 01:27 PM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
I do not care

Imo, I'm an Republican or at the very least believe if there is a monarchy it should be only constitutional, in that I believe monarchy is a left over from the feudal age.
I was just poking fun, and my real target was Sean '90, not you.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008







Post#796 at 01-25-2008 03:28 PM by Al Blanco [at joined Dec 2004 #posts 125]
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I'm glad you can tell where the Russian government, the KGB/FSB, and the Russian Mafia begin and end. I can't. They're the political tripod of modern Russia, and no matter what happens internally, they appear to work as a unit outside the Motherland.

It was a famous series of stories about a bandit named Benya Krik by Isaak Babel. And when a person in a story asked ‘where Benya Krik ends and the police begins???’ he was answered that ‘the police ends where Benya Krik begins’

Actually, the FSB and the government is a one thing and it is definitely the Mafia. . However, I think one shouldn’t mix it up with the organized crime of 90s. The main task of Putin was to fight this crime and he won. Again, many criminal bosses were just exterminated by the FSB. The government and the like is the Mafia just because there is no control by the society.







Post#797 at 01-26-2008 01:33 AM by sean '90 [at joined Jul 2007 #posts 1,625]
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Quote Originally Posted by Tristan View Post
http://kleinverzet.blogspot.com/2008...-changing.html

The Dutch are losing faith in their monarchy.
They're busy cracking down on lese majeste over there. I think I'll be reporting that blog to my fellow royalists.







Post#798 at 04-27-2008 05:11 PM by Mr. Reed [at Intersection of History joined Jun 2001 #posts 4,376]
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I believe that the UK is entering its 4T. They are panicking over food and gas, and the Housing Crisis is now reaching them in full force.
"The urge to dream, and the will to enable it is fundamental to being human and have coincided with what it is to be American." -- Neil deGrasse Tyson
intp '82er







Post#799 at 04-28-2008 12:52 AM by Tristan [at Melbourne, Australia joined Oct 2003 #posts 1,249]
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Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Reed View Post
I believe that the UK is entering its 4T. They are panicking over food and gas, and the Housing Crisis is now reaching them in full force.
Mr Reed, any news you have encountered on what is currently going on in Britain at the moment, which would describe more what you are saying would be much appericated.

All I know is that the British pay among the highest house prices relative to income in the western world, next to the Australians and New Zealanders. While we Aussies live in houses the same size as Americans and average new house is 250m2 or 2700 square feet, the average British house is 1/2 to 1/3 the size of American ones, the average new house is only 75m2 or 800 square feet, smaller than in other Western European nations.

I know a lot of British are considering emigrating (to France, Spain, Portgual, Australia, New Zealand), not just due to the expensive cost of housing, but also the mounting social problems.
"The f****** place should be wiped off the face of the earth".

David Bowie on Los Angeles







Post#800 at 05-13-2008 08:59 AM by The Wonkette [at Arlington, VA 1956 joined Jul 2002 #posts 9,209]
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May 1968 in France -- Sure Seems Like an Awakening To Me

I know that Dr. Kaiser puts the end of the French crisis at 1962. In my opinion, there is a big problem with that -- May 1968, which shows all the hallmarks of an Awakening.

NPR did a commentary on it this morning in Morning Edition. Here is the print version.

Forty years ago, millions of French workers joined protesting students in a general strike that paralyzed the country and nearly brought down the government. A few weeks later, the May 1968 protests fizzled out, but French society was radically changed.

Campaigning for president last year, Nicholas Sarkozy blamed the legacy of 1968 for leading to intellectual and moral relativism and hedonistic individualism.

French TV was on strike for most of May, so the story was told in pictures and radio reports.

Serge Hambourg, then a young photojournalist, covered the protests from the start, in early May, when students occupied Paris' hallowed Sorbonne University on the Left Bank. His camera captured a fast-forward transformation.

In the early shots, students clashing with police wear jackets and ties and have short haircuts. In the later ones, students have beards and wear sandals. He points to a picture of young men building barricades and ripping up cobblestones, assisted by local residents.

"It was so exciting and everybody has some complaint against the government, so everybody has reason to complain and to fight — a worker, a student, a old guy, a young guy," Hambourg says.

A Rigid Society

In May 1968, Charles de Gaulle was France's paternalistic president. He ruled over a newly prosperous but rigidly conservative society. Women couldn't wear pants to work and married ones needed a husband's permission to open a bank account.

Homosexuality was a crime. Factory workers could be fired at will. The news on the single TV channel required government approval. And the overcrowded educational system was authoritarian.

Postwar patriarchal France was unprepared for the onslaught of the baby boom generation. Kids challenged an uptight society to become modern and democratic. Society responded with collective self-examination.

Open Debate and Optimism

In those weeks of May, 40 years ago, the Left Bank became one large debating society.

It was a moveable feast of talk. The center was the Grand Odeon theater, whose director, the legendary actor Jean-Louis Barrault, threw open the doors for open-ended discussions.

And everyone took the stage: agitating students, sympathetic local residents and celebrated intellectuals, curious tourists, striking workers and idled managers of occupied factories.

For a brief moment, utopian dreams and political action merged seamlessly into the joyful pleasure of living life to the fullest.

"Our generation enjoyed an unprecedented optimism," says Henri Weber, a Socialist member of the European Parliament. "We were promethean."

Four decades ago, Weber was on the barricades. He says no one knew what unemployment was. His generation believed in the anti-colonial movement and the technological revolution.

"We experienced utopia, a moment where everyone could live a full and intense life," Weber says. "The watchword was live without pause, enjoy pleasure without restraint."

The streets that saw running battles between police and students are now dotted with Starbucks and McDonald's. Many small radical bookshops have been replaced by trendy designer boutiques.

In homage to May '68, many Left Bank shop windows are displaying the graffiti and creative poetry of protest that made this the wittiest and most surreal revolt. They read:

"Marxism, Groucho Version," "Be Realistic: Ask for the Impossible" and "Under the Cobblestones, the Beach."

An Opening for Women

In all the photos, in all the radio reports, men took center stage.
Anne Zelinksy, then a student at the Sorbonne, was annoyed that women's issues were ignored. With a friend, she organized a debate on "women and revolution."

"We were sure no one would come and were so nervous we held hands under the desk to give ourselves courage," Zelinksy says. "But the huge hall filled up, people stood in the aisles, and everyone talked and talked for hours about everything — all the sexual taboos. There was an extraordinary need to speak. It was my encounter with history."

Ten years later, Zelinsky was a founder of the French women's liberation movement. The most important achievement of May '68, she says, was that it led to equal rights between men and women and legalization of abortion, giving women control over their bodies.

May 13, 1968, was a turning point. Slogans turned more political as millions of workers put down tools in solidarity with the students and marched in the streets of Paris, singing the communist anthem.

It became the biggest general strike in French history and, to de Gaulle's horror, brought the country to a halt.

While rumors of a coup d'etat circulated, authorities secretly negotiated with unions, granting unprecedented wage hikes and benefits.

On May 30, a massive pro-de Gaulle counter-rally was staged on the Champs-Elysees, on the Right Bank, far from the scruffy tumult of the Latin Quarter.

By mid-June, life returned to normal. What's been called the French psychodrama has entered the realm of myth.

The Legacy of '68

Paris' 18th district is commemorating the events with an unusual exhibit. Visitors wander through a mock-up of a typical '60s working class apartment — complete with Formica-topped table and then-newly available appliances such as vacuum cleaners and transistor radios.
Those nostalgic for the music of the times can pick up headphones and listen to the protesters' favorite, "Paris S'eveille," or "Paris wakes up."

"I wanted to show it in music, that the values of '68 — of just wanting to change the world, of freedom — are still here today," says Marie Claude Audigier, the exhibit curator.

Sociologist Jean-Pierre le Goff dismisses the legacy of '68 as "narcissism and cynicism," saying, "We have lost a sense of collective responsibility."
Jean-Luc Hees, author of a book about 1968, says many French right-wingers are fed up with that year's events.

"They say, 'Thank you so much for May '68.' We have to clean up after you. You had no worries; we have lots of worries. You had no AIDS; we have unemployment, it's a bankruptcy here. You had your time, you had your pleasure, and we have the leftovers and this is not so great.'"

Yet, even conservatives acknowledge that in just four weeks, France underwent a radical political and cultural revolution — and not one person was killed.

No Western country experienced so much change, so much emancipation so quickly. An archaic society was swept aside. All institutions were transformed: the workplace, the university, the family and the couple.
I want people to know that peace is possible even in this stupid day and age. Prem Rawat, June 8, 2008
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